My Dad has a myriad of health problems, and is now homebound (he's 86). He uses a walker, but has fallen several times recently and Mom has taken him to the prompt care, but he refuses to go into the hospital, convinced it will kill him. My brother, sister and I (who all live several hours and states from our parents) visited them a couple of weeks ago to discuss such unpleasant things as wills, plans, care facilities, selling the house, etc. When we left, my siblings and I were happy that Mom & Dad were talking about moving to an assisted care facility and we though maybe we'd made progress. My sister visited this weekend, though, and reports that Dad has changed his mind. He's convinced he'll die at home, and won't consider moving. He can't take care of himself, and my sister said his health has really gone downhill just since we were there. Mom is now homebound, too...caring for him. She bathes him, prepares his food, fetches and carries, rubs his legs (part of his problem is with the nerves in his legs), everything. She was active and had friends, but now she's afraid to leave him alone, even for a trip to the hairdresser. We've looked into housekeeping or even respite care for her, but Dad refuses to have strangers in the house. He is killing her, and we are worried sick. She wants to move, but he won't do it. I guess there aren't any solutions to this...it'll take something big to get him out of the house. I just hope it isn't Mom getting ill or worse. Thanks for listening.

By Missmudd on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:57 am:

So sorry that you are going through this. If it was just your dad involved I would be inclined to let him be. I know that is hard but while he is elderly it still sounds as if he can make decisions for himself. Unfortunately your mom is involved too. I understand that it must be very hurtful for you to see her working so hard to keep dad ok. Would dad pay any attention if one or all of you kids said, "your care is killing mom, we dont want her to spend yours and her last days in bondage to you and the house. Please reconsider an assisted living situation or at least some outside help for mom." This approach might work in my family, I dont know about yours. I would try to figure out why dad is now putting the breaks on the assisted living, maybe it is something that can be worked out. Is it too far from his normal haunt, is he worried about the diet?

By Janet on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 11:05 am:

Dad has always been very controlling, and I think the problem is that things aren't going as planned, and he can't handle it. He has major anxiety attacks when anything is changed, and is on medication, but he just can't handle changes. He always "planned" to just die at home, and now it looks like it isn't going to happen. In my family, denial is key. If I ask Mom how things are, she says "fine." If Dad has fallen and hurt himself, she says "he got banged up a bit, but he's OK now." I saw the truth when I was there, but now I'm back to long-distance and what my sister can report when she visits (she's the closest, at 3 hours away). He doesn't see what he's doing to Mom, and she won't tell him. I would love to say what you said to him...I don't know what would happen. My brother could maybe get away with it, but I don't think I could.

By Missmudd on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 11:43 am:

To me it sounds like the control freak aspect is because the anxiety of change. If he controls everything nothing changes.

I think an intervention may still be the key here, but I would hate to have the family split up and angry, what do your siblings say? Are your parents involved in church or some other group that a noncombatant could intervene, do they have an elderly care advocate in the area?

I know that dad isnt terminal but maybe if you talked with the local hospice. I am sure they run into people who absolutely refuse to leave their own home in their line of work, and I am sure that they would be willing to give advice and are probably pros at getting them into better situations for the family and themselves.

By Jann on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 12:54 pm:

I am in your EXACT same shoes with my fil. And, I know that nothing is really going to change his mind. We got both my inlaws cell phones and that helped my mil to be able to get out of the house some. It eased my fil's anxiety and control issues to know he could reach her no matter where she was. My dh won't sit down and talk to his dad straight out either, I can't. But, we have tried to talk to my mil about assisted living and she says he won't move either. I personally think it's going to come down to someone being direct with fil. Their quality of life would improve so much.

By Kim on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 03:25 pm:

Janet, I don't have an answer, but I am sorry you are going through this and I hope a solution comes up!

By Dawnk777 on Monday, September 12, 2005 - 07:18 pm:

Well, my grandma didn't want to move into a facility, either, but she was having problems and was going to get evicted from her apartment, so she had to move. They didn't want to be responsible if she fell or something, I think. She was a little mad at first, though.

By Janet on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 12:47 pm:

I talked to my brother and sister yesterday, and we've decided to just let it go for now. We are sure that it will take something major for them to actually do something... it's not a matter of if but when. Perhaps we pushed too hard, I don't know, but we are all concerned. Still, it's their lives, and as long as they're able to make decisions for themselves, we need to honor that (but it's not easy!).

By Jann on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 02:14 pm:

It's not easy, but I think you guys made a good decision. Isn't it funny how we start to parent our parents at a certain point?!

By Bea on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 04:26 pm:

Janet I ache for you. I've been where you are. As long as they have their faculties, you can't force them into a situation that will relieve your fears. We simply told my folks that if they refuse to listen to reason, we would no longer help them to live at home. No more lawns mowed or errands run. No more snow shovelled or help with heavy lifting. It was their choice, not ours, and we weren't going to help them with a choice we didn't second. They did move to an assisted living complex.

By Karen~moderator on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 07:11 pm:

Haven't been through *exactly* what you are going through, but had my mom survived, she would have been going into a nursing home. We tried to talk her into Assisted Living 5 years ago before her cancer diagnosis, because she honestly needed help and wasn't taking care of herself, and was dependent on us to do her food and pharmacy shopping, errands, get her to the doctor, etc. But she refused, so we let it continue, and then she got sick.

It has got to be very hard when you have to face that you may actually be putting yourself and your loved one at risk by continuing to live alone, unassisted. But I can understand not wanting to give up that control, it's pretty much admitting that your life is nearing the end, and it must be incredibly frightening. And because of that, I can understand that there is a certain amount of denial involved.

I'm sorry you're going through this too. When my mom was still in the hospital, maybe 2 weeks before she died, I had the nursing home talk with her - at that point Assisted Living was not an option because of her health. Knowing my mother as I did, and having heard her say may times that she would rather die than live in a nursing home, I believe in my heart that's exactly what she did.

I wish I had been able to convince her to move to an Assisted Living place years ago, but as Bea said, unless you can prove them incompetent to make decisions for themselves and care for themselves, there really is nothing you can do.

Give it a rest for a while (a SHORT while) and maybe bring it up again. I know you are worried, and you have good reason to be. Maybe one of your parents will start thinking about it since you and your siblings have all talked to them about it. Maybe they will realize that it really is in their best interest. Denial, shock, fear, stubbornness all play a part in their reaction, so maybe when they start to accept that they really *do* need daily help, they will consider it.

{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}

By Feona on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 07:12 am:

I realized when calling around for my mother in law that assisted living is for people who need no help like nursing help.

Nursing home is for people who are falling down or need nursing care. Diabetics or people in wheel chairs definitely nursing home.

If you go to the wrong place then you have to switch places. (hassle like you would not believe) If you use all the money at the assisted living place then good nursing home won't take you because you only have medicaid.

Once you are in the nursing home they take all your money slowing or fastly and then you stay with them on medicaid. They usually won't throw you out. Don't quote me on that.

By Karen~moderator on Wednesday, September 14, 2005 - 08:07 am:

Janet, if they have the funds for Assisted Living and refuse to move, then will they even consider having someone come in during the day, at least? If they have healthcare coverage in addition to Medicare, that may be covered for your Dad. Check into it - it will require a doctor's order or letter. We faced this with my FIL, but he has improved and now has no one coming in anymore. It will give your mom a break, even if it's just 3 days a week. She can get out a bit.

Feona's pretty much right about Assisted Living vs nursing home. However, if they did move to Assisted Living, and your mom could still basically take care of your dad, the Assisted Living would provide meals, cleaning, etc.

As for nursing homes, they won't take your house, but they will take your money. I'm not sure exactly how it works if one person goes in and the spouse is left at home. But in my mom's case, they would leave $2000 cash assets for her, and the rest they would take - which basically meant that she would have been private pay, until all she had left was $2000, then they would take her Social Security every month and Medicare picked up the rest, they would leave her something like $36 a month, but the nursing home would provide her meds.