I have to say that I just don't get it. Now I am not going to say that my dh and I have not always been wise or I even wise now all the time with money. But I just don't get some people. I went to a birthday party last night. My friend rented a pool for her two dk's birthday. I think she said it cost aroung $300-400 dollars. In the course of the night we got to talking about tatoos and she wants to get another one that cost $200-$300 dollars. They are getting a big screen tv ect... I laughed because my wedding band has been broken for 3 years and I won't pay the $400 dollars to get it fixed. She couldn't believe that I wouldn't just have dh buy me another one. She is on her third and its going to cost $4000 dollars. She has been married less then 10 years! I know I just sound jealous but I honestly don't want these things. But it would be nice to not always have to look for a sale. I guess what bothers me is dh and I both work and pretty much live paycheck to paycheck. We shop the clearance racks and it kills me to have to buy something not on sale. How do they do it??? This particular friends dh is the only one that works. We don't have all the luxuries but we are happy. I guess I just needed to vent. Money is such a stresser and I know I shouldn't let this stuff bother me. Let me say that my dh and I are making a concious effort to do better with our money and we are budgeting now better then we ever have. I am confident that soon we will not struggle so much. Thanks for listening. I am going anyom since it has to do with finances.

By Mrsheidi on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:11 am:

I've met so many people that, when they mention $ over and over, they are just really trying to cover their insecurities.

People who have money, and are good with their money, never mention their money. They don't have to...

By Kim on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:24 am:

I think a LOT of people live on credit cards, I really do. They say the national cc debt has become a growing monster. I believe it. Someone in my family is there! But in their case they had no other choice. I also think wealthier people are living paycheck to paycheck too. Know what? Even if I made a large amount of money I would STILL buy things on sale, with cash. My kids would still have to earn their first car and pay for the upkeep themselves. And I wouldn't buy stuff just to have stuff.

By Reds9298 on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:43 am:

Ditto Kim and Heidi. We have 2 friends who make a lot less $ than we do and you'd never know it. They have literally EVEYRTHING and talk about it all the time. I personally know they are over $25K in debt on their cc, and I agree with Kim that I think this is the norm for a lot of people. It's unfortunate because when their kids get older and realize that they have to work for the money, it's not going to be easy.

By Jann on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 01:09 pm:

I agree that generally when people are always talking about money or the things they buy, they are trying to either make themselves seem important or are perhaps insecure.
I don't agree that if someone has alot of 'things' that it necessarily means they are in debt or that someone who doesn't have alot of things means they are poor. I have friends who make a ton of money, save it, but also enjoy alot of benefits from their money. I have other friends who make alot too, but live very frugally. None are in debt. . Our kids have asked us before about why we might not have some of the things as some of their friends or why we have something and someone else might not, and we have always told them that we choose to spend our money based on what is best for our family, that we don't decide based on what others are doing.

By Mommmie on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 01:35 pm:

I've realized that people with real money don't talk about it very much because they don't want people to know they have it. If folks think you have a lot of money you can be taken advantage of so easily, robbed or people will just flat out ask you for some it.

These people who have so much *stuff* and no visible means of support for all that *stuff* are credit card people! I love that commercial where the guy is smiling and shows us his stuff and then says he's up to his eyeballs in debt. That is so many people in our lives!!

Check out the foreclosures happening in the upper middle class new neighborhoods. It's amazing. One layoff, one serious medical issue, and poof, it's gone.

Here's a good example, I work with a single mom who has to have her mother co-sign on a car loan for her due to her bad credit and not very high income, but was able to get a home loan in her own name and buy a house! It's just a disaster waiting to happen. She bought a house that was a foreclosure and when she needs to have repairs done, which is immediately, she will have to charge it. She will charge the furniture she needs too.

Just sit back and let all those other people keep the economy going, as fragile as it is. They are doing you a favor. Everything's going to come crashing down, either individually or en masse, and those in great debt are going to be the most hurt. Their lifestyles can't be sustained.

It would be easy for you to go out and get a bunch of credit cards and make major purchases "with no interest or payments until 2007" and you could have all the things and stuff they have, but you won't because it's even more stressful to live that way than it is having nothing and living paycheck to paycheck. Just put a little bit of money away every paycheck - $5-$10. You can sleep at night that way.

By Karen~moderator on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 01:48 pm:

Some people are much happier or need the instant gratification of *things*, and therefore, spend their money on those *things*, or buy them on credit, no matter what.

I have a close friend who lives that way, having *things* is very important to her. Never mind that she just bought a VERY expensive new home (expensive for this area), and is really sort of struggling to make the high monthly notes. But they continue to buy things - in the 2-3 months since they bought this home, they've bought a plasma TV, new dining room furniture, new b/r furniture for one of their DD's and for themselves, some new living room furniture, most recently a new refrigerator because the one they bought just 3 years ago *doesn't match the other appliances in the kitchen*, so now they have TWO - the *old* one is in the garage......and several weeks after they moved into their house they had a combination house warming/b'day party for their youngest DD, complete with spacewalk which was a couple hundred $$.

BTW, she cashed in HER 401K when they bought the house to buy much of the furniture, etc. And she's now complaining she has no retirement fund.

Some people just have that need to constantly buy the newest and the best to be happy. Sure, I'd love to go out and buy new furniture, etc. But DH and I are completely content with having an affordable house note, NO notes on new furniture, and being able to take a vacation every year.

Everyone's priorities are different, and even though many/most of us would love to have brand new, nice *things*, most of us make wiser financial decisions. I love my friend dearly, and one two-week paycheck for her is more than *I* clear in a month... they obviously make a considerable amount more than DH and I do. But we manage our money better and aren't stressing out every month when it's time to pay the bills.

Think of the Sheryl Crowe song - *it's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got*. As was said above, I agree that a lot of that type spending and the constant need to tell people about the things that are bought, is a sign of insecurity in people and IMO, they are trying to fill a void. It's really sort of sad.....

By Reds9298 on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 02:20 pm:

Karen - I have a close friend who did almost exactly the same things! Cashed in her 401k to furnish an expensive home which she can barely make the payments on let alone the taxes and insurance. They're putting nothing in retirement, college, or any kind of savings because they're barely "keeping up with the Jones'" as it is. Always complain about not having enough, but they should just look around themselves.
I agree with Mommmie...it's so easy to get credit these days, from just about anywhere. That can be a good thing for people starting out who intend to use it sensibly, but a bad thing for the majority who see it as free reign with no end. Too bad.

By Hol on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 03:11 pm:

I SO-O-O agree with you, Heidi. People who feel a need to tell you what they have or what they make, are usually very insecure. My DH has a friend like that. (I can't stand him, but for other reasons).He is self employed as an excevator (sp). He is ALWAYS bragging about how much money he makes, how he has to turn down work because he's so busy, how much money he has been able to "hide" from the government. He brags how he charges customers for shrubs and trees to landscape their yards, then he keeps them for his own yard, and digs up things in the woods to plant in his customers' yards, or orders extra for himself and charges the customer. He tried to give my DH a couple of "hot" trees once, and I returned them. I don't want anything procured under those circumstances.

He also goes to the pub in our small town to play cards, and brags how he has a half million dollars in cash stashed in his attic. How stupid! That's like saying "Come rob me!"

He is terribly insecure. He is a large man and not very good looking. He grew up in a large family whose parents were dirt poor farmers.

My own sister is the same way. She raised two kids alone after her divorce twenty years ago. She only made a modest income, and really struggled. She lives in another state, and we once dropped in on her to surprise her on our way to Canada. It was winter and her house was freezing because she had had her gas shut off for non-payment. The water was running down the inside of her windows. Her refrigerator had also died, and her landlord wouldn't get her another one, so she was keeping her perishables in a cooler outside. Yet, whenever I would talk to her on the phone, she would brag about how much she was making; that she just got another promotion, etc. She even refers to the woman who answers the phone for the whole company as "her" secretary.

I just want to say to her, "Can the bull-crap! This is your big sister you're talking to. I KNOW better".

Our Mom is now in a nursing home near her, and she has full power of attorney over Mom's finances. All of a sudden, she is getting weekly pedicures and massages, and flying to New York City to get her hair cut by some celebrity stylist. When I remind her that Mom's money is for MOM's care, she says, "When her money is gone, the state will have to take care of her". I find that despicable. However, she is the one that Mom chose to administer her affairs, so I have nothing to say in the matter.

Anyway, I don't know how I got off on that tangent. However, this thread goes along with a "discussion" that my youngest DS and I had the other night. My boys work part-time jobs, and I drive them. The agreement when they started to work was that 2/3 of what they earn goes into their savings account for college, a car, etc. The other third goes into their checking, and if they need money, they use their debit card. They don't spend it as quickly as if it were cash in their pocket.

Well, the other day, they both went to Gamestop and each bought a fifty dollar video game right after getting their paychecks. That violates TWO of my rules. You put the money in the bank before any spending is done, and I need to approve the rating on the video game. They are both grounded now, and have lost their video game priviledges.

I told them that you never lose when you have money in the bank. Always pay yourself first. Money is power. The reason that homeless people have no voice is because they have no money. If you have money in the bank, you have more power. When it comes time to pay a tuition bill, and all you have is a room full of video games, guess what?

DH and I have always been thrifty. Our house is paid for, I drive a 2002 car and he drives a 2003 truck. My stove is 35 years old. My dryer is 39 years old. DH puts new parts in them when they break. We don't have credit card debt. Owing money on credit cards is working to earn money that you have already spent.

Yes, it's nice to have new things, but at what price? To have to work overtime, so that you don't see your family? So that you are stressed all the time? And when emergencies happen, you have no cushion. Maybe it's okay for some, but not for us.

By Crystal915 on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 06:52 pm:

I've been on both sides, debt and being thrifty, though my spending wasn't to be frivilous or impress. It is sad when people brag about money, and the stuff they can afford. I try very hard to be thrifty, work to pay down the debts we already have (most of which is from our divorces) and still live a comfortable life. Right now we're decorating, and I've made as much of the stuff as possibles, pillows, all the curtains, etc, to cut costs. The tattoo thing you mentioned? Nate has a few thousand dollars worth of tattoos, and I'm sure some of them cost a couple hundred a piece, but they were always bought when he had the money, and over a course of 10 years. $200-300 isn't that expensive for it when you think about how much some people spend on art for their homes. Of course we aren't spending that much on either right now!!

By Lorebunde on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 12:41 pm:

We've been on both sides also. I don't think we brag. We have the big screen tv, actually 2 of them. Big car, pool etc. travel to florida 2-3 times a year. But we don't put a lot of money in our house. When we moved in everything was already there. I have a friend who seems to live by her budget and hardly ever travels but is always doing something to her house. I think its everybody has different priorities. Some people just save save save. My brother and niece are always crying poormouth. But probably have a ton of money in the bank and want to mooch off other people. We don't have a lot of money in the bank. We spend it and enjoy it. Things always work out is our motto.

By Rayelle on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 02:25 pm:

I am right there with you! I posted anon at first since it was about money but then I heard from others in the same situation. I think a lot of people live on credit cards too. We are paycheck to paycheck and I love the thrill of a bargain, but I hate "having" to find one. Going without things I never thought "I" would do without. Whenever our situation improves then there's a whole new crop of things that weren't on the priority list that need taken care of. Argh!

By Reds9298 on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 05:13 pm:

Lorebunde, I agree about people and different priorities. We are big savers and spend a lot of $ on travel. We have a certain comfort level with regard to savings. Usually when I say I can't afford something, it really means that "affording it" would take away from college savings, retirement, or next house savings. My best friend couldn't sleep at night if she spent what we have spent on travel, but she has $40k cars, and to me that's a big waste of money, you know? Different priorities and different comfort levels. I couldn't sleep at night if I had cc debt, but it seems that a lot of people can and are so if they're comfortable I guess it's okay. it's a mind set, just like everything else, and we all have our own mind set.

By Yjja123 on Monday, July 25, 2005 - 05:39 pm:

We have definitely seen both sides. I still hunt for bargains and scrimp wherever I can. Even when we lived check to check, I made sure we paid for our kids college program (we bought the program when they were toddlers) and we put money in a 401K. We have no credit cards. We did have them and once they were paid off we cancelled them. We do not want to carry credit card debt so we save for everything we want. We have done a lot of work on our house. We decided last year to stay right where we are instead of moving so have made big changes to the house. We feel great because we have a "new" house but not a high mortgage.
We only have vehicle loans and a mortgage. I think everyone has different priorities. I have a family member that has over a million in a mortgage. I would never be able to sleep at night owing that kind of money. He sees it differently as the value of the property is over a million. When we decided not to move he tried to talk us out of it stating real estate is investing. I get his point BUT I do not want to worry all the time about paying for these things. We go on 2 vacations a year now but not too long ago we vacationed at home...meaning we just did day trips because that was all we could afford. It all is what matters to you. You may discover that even if your financial situation improves that you still want to bargain hunt. I can never pay retail.

By Insaneusmcwife on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 10:17 am:

We have been known to blow through money like water. However, as we get older we are now trying to straighten things out before its too late. We were credit card free until this last weekend when we bought our van. Hopefully after taxes we will be again and by summer our other vehicle should be paid off and then we can really start saving.

By Kaye on Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - 11:34 am:

I think it is important to realize that we all have things we choose to spend frivoulsly on. For us it is eating out, we do it way too much. I look at lot at money and how people spend it, and frankly do get a little jealous when I KNOW how much people make and where we are in relation to that and just don't see it. We have very few debtors, our house, one car, and two credit cards, one of them is very small, the other is not (5 k), but we will have that paid off by mar/apr. But lots of my friends have several cc, old school loans, loans for furniture, two car payments, etc. And it just doesn't add up. So there are a couple of things I keep in mind, chances are they are saving nothing, very little retirement, not a savings acct to back life up, and they are very high in debt. I recently found out through the grapevine a good friend of ours just filed bankruptcy. I guess it didn't suprise me, because they had so much stuff. Our biggest issue is discipline. It takes work and time to manage our money and we are both just too lazy to do it sometimes. So we have recently made a pact to just do it and do it right. I am trying to work out a monetary reward, that if we have no late fees and follow our budget then in 6 months we can do XXXX...i want disney, but timing wise it doesn't fit in quite right..LOL.