Question for those of you who have ended a relationship?
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion Archive: Archive May 2005:
Question for those of you who have ended a relationship?
I am just curious for those of you who have divorced, at what point did you say *enough is enough*? I know this is very personal and diff for each individual and each couple. So I am not basing a decision on what you did- just curious.
It is a very frustrating situation I am in. It seems that my *other half* is constantly *avoiding the truth* about things. Then when I find out the truth he says he *has* to lie to me because of how i react. I feel I am arriving at a crossroads.  I thought this behavior would end but i learned this week that its the same ol same ol. It makes me feel sick inside. This would not have been that serious had he just told the whole story. To me it looks worse when it appears someone is hiding something. Ya know? These types of situations have been going on for yrs and I am finally just fed up.
Without giving alot of details to you, I know its hard to give advice. Really just needing to vent. It's upsetting to always feel so disappointed in the one person you should be able to respect.
As for counseling we have btdt.
It seems I always forgive... things go well for a bit and then something else happens. Again, I forgive and the cycle starts over again. Is this marraige??
I can't really say much other than offer my support. My marriage ended quickly, but there were major things going on that were dangerous to me and my children. That was my final straw. For you, I think you just have to trust your instincts. Are you ever going to be happy like this? Do you feel you are progressing in the relationship, or just standing still. ((((Anon)))) It's a really tough decision, I wish you the best.
I think Crystal raised some good questions for you to ask yourself. To your question: Is this marriage? IMO, no. I think marriage is give & take and trust in a nutshell. There shouldn't be a 'cycle' where you feel good then bad, secure then betrayed.(((Anon))) I don't know your situation, but good luck to you. It's my philosophy that you always have to be true to yourself and what makes you happy before you can have really meaningful, healthy relationships.
I hate it that you are in that situation. When my marriage ended it was a cumulation of different things. I finally saw the light at the end of the tunnel after a major instance and knew I could do better for me and my dd. It was a long process of hoping it would get better and my spirit being destroyed in the process. He didn't change, but expected me to. No, it's not a marriage to answer your question IMO. I hope you find the answers that are true to yourself. Take care of yourself.
First of all, no one *has* to lie to anyone, they CHOOSE to lie. He is manipulating you, attempting to make YOU take responsibility for whatever lies he is telling you. Do NOT let him do that.
There is a point in a marriage-gone-bad, where you sometimes have to cut your losses and end it. No one can make that decision but you. Only you and your spouse know the *real* issues in your marriage.
That being said, though marriage is said to be a compromise, a partnership, give and take, take and give, a sacrifice...whatever... NO one person should be expected to do all the compromising, all the sacrificing, all the changing, lose their identity, etc.
Marital breakups are normally a culmination of many components. Sometimes it just takes something to finally break it.
When my first marriage ended, it was after years of my X's unfaithfulness, his lies, and countless efforts to *work on our problems*. Only in his opinion, *I* was the one who had to work on the problems - he actually told me he *was too old to change*! He would lie and then tell me the same thing you've been told. That is bull! What that is all about, is he KNOWS he is wrong and doesn't want to accept the consequences of his actions.
You have to ask yourself if this is how you want to spend your life. With kids involved, it's a tough decision to make. But one day those kids will be grown and gone, living their own lives, and what will you have?????
My opinion is that a marriage devoid of trust, loyalty, fairness, affection, common goals, common interests, companionship and honesty is no marriage at all.......and you owe it to yourself to believe YOU deserve all these things.
Amen, Karen. Blaming the victim is always a good play, and it makes the victim feel guilty for being a victim.
I left a marriage of almost 19 years, with sons 9, 10 and 15. One of the major factors was my husband's continuing, almost constant dishonesty. And so much of it was lies about really trivial stuff ... I didn't call you because my watch wasn't working so I didn't realize I was late ... no, I didn't drink the last of the orange juice, beer, whatever ... of course I mailed the bill payments. He was also really bad about money handling, running up debts and, because he was the wage earner and I wasn't for most of our marriage, felt he had the right to decide how the money was spent - so he bought 2 large tents for use with an organization he belonged to, spending about $25 more than it would have cost to repair our non-working refrigerator. And, of course, he lied to me about our financial situation, lied to bill collectors, etc. etc. When I did go back to work, about 2 years before we split, he was working from home and at home most of the time. but if our sons didn't do their homework or straighten up their rooms when they got home from school (and he was home) it was my fault. He wouldn't go for marriage counseling, because he didn't have any problems - I was the one with the problems. The final touch for me was when, after we had been separated for about 4 months, we met to talk about whether we could reconcile and he said if we were to get back together I'd have to quit my job (which I loved). I pointed out that my job had been paying the mortgage and utilities because his consulting business wasn't bringing in a whole lot of money. He said, well, OK, but you have to get a job that you don't like so much. Huh - I mean, this is the man who insisted on running a consulting business that put us in bankruptcy because he enjoyed doing consulting and didn't like 9-5 jobs where other people had the right to tell him what to do, no matter how much it paid. But I couldn't work at a job that I liked so much.
Sorry - this should be about your problems, not mine - not that I have those problems any more, because I don't.
The bottom line is how you feel. My dad used to call it playing your ace in the hole card - you play your ace in the hole, or give your ultimatum or deadline, when you don't care one way or the other how things come out just so things change.
You are the only person who can decide whether you will be unhappier staying married to him or doing the single parent route. And remember, if he is dishonest while you are married, he is certainly going to be dishonest, about child support and visitation and other things, after you split, and as long as you have children together you are responsible for trying to make sure your children don't hate or despise their father and have a chance for a decent relationship with him. Which means you can't tell them that daddy is dishonest or whatever, just that you and daddy could not live together any longer but he is still your daddy and he still loves you. And be prepared for your children to both blame themselves and you.
Only you can decide what is best for you and your children. I can tell you that it is not easy being a single parent - it is, in fact, darned hard. But I was a single parent for a long time before I ended my marriage, which may be your situation. And being a single parent can be terribly, terribly lonely ... the only thing worse than being lonely when you are on your own is being lonely when you are living with someone.
I again second what Karen has said so eloquently above. And also her final thoughts - you deserve a good marriage partner who is a partner, you deserve honesty and trust and shouldn't have to keep struggling for those things. You deserve to have good things, and sometimes you just have to take them for yourself.
The first year after my marriage ended was very hard on all of us, the boys and me. And when I learned that someone had moved in with him, even though I didn't want to live with him I fell apart. But in looking back, I don't regret leaving. And what I hear from my sons is that they got to know their father's weaknesses for themselves - they don't remember my ever saying anything bad about him - and have decided for themselves, one at a time, that while he can be a fun guy, he is not reliable and you can't count on him in a pinch. They never knew why we split, never heard an angry word from one about the other, and wondered a lot. But they don't feel cheated about how they were raised, and we have very good relationships.
Again, you have to decide. If he won't get involved in counseling, I urge you to get some counseling for yourself. It will help you in stepping back and taking a look at your life and deciding what's important, who you want to be and how you want to live your life. I always think that we have the answers in ourselves, but it takes a trained, neutral outsider to ask the right questions to help us find our own answers, and that's why I recommend counseling.
Thank you ladies!
On one hand, there is a part of me that is scared to leave for obvious reasons. Have no job, kids to feed, no place to go, no access to money so no money to leave with.
On the other hand, I know in my heart I am being manipulated, controlled, disrespected. This weeks lie was SO darn stupid. He had gone shopping after work on tues night. Comes home that night in great mood, very attentive to all, wants sex at bedtime. Next night, Wed. night after work we are going somewhere and I ask him about a gal from work, in from out of town, that he had been giving a ride too each morning this week. I ask how thats going, then I jokingly say 'did ya take her shopping last night?' He says 'as a matter of fact I did take her with me.' I am thinking *why* did he not mention that the night before?? Well, because I would get mad he says. So I would have never known that he was shopping with some girl if I didnt ask him? He talks to me like I am keeping him from having a life with all his friends. He repeatedly told me he did nothing wrong. I guess lieing to his wife is ok in his book.
I could tell story after story like this. It all boils down to me having a problem with other women. According to him.
Well, gee - a wife isn't supposed to have a problem if her husband is going around with other women? Wonder how he'd feel if you'd gone shopping or out for drinks with a man? But, that's "different", of course.
Just remember, we're here for you. Post whenever you want or need to.
I would suggest that you find a way to start putting some money aside where he has no access to it - *just in case*..........
*IF* you do eventually decide to leave, you need a plan.....
As Ginny said above, single parenting is HARD - but in my case, it was the best thing to do.
I think you are getting some great advice...Good luck!
If I get cash with my CC will it appear as cash on my statement? He goes thru my statement every month and looks to see where I spent money. I have never gotten cash on it before- so am not sure how it shows up on the statement?
Thanks.
There is no doubt in my mind that being a single parent is hard. But I have to say that I feel single alot of the time already! LOL I know its not the same tho...
Yes, it shows up as a cash advance.
I guess he has me in a great spot then, eh? lol
Lovely...*rolling my eyes*
Thanks Marcia! 
Not much advice, just hugs.
DH and I had it rough for a while and I was doing the math to see what single parenting would cost and it's not cheap.
I wish you the best of luck, that's not a great situation to be in.
Can you write checks for over the amount at the grocery store? If so, every time you go to the grocery store write it for $20 more and then hide the cash.
Well, thats the thing Jann, I have to use the CC at the groc store and for gas, dr appt, dentist appts, hair appts, clothes, shoes, etc... Then he moans and groans about it all at the end of the month and pays it. Not that I am complaining about that. ;)
He just this yr put me on his checking acct. But I certainly dont get to use the acct. He just put my name on there to shut me up after I went to an attorney about a cute young thing he befriended and forgot to tell me about. No I dont think he had an affair. I do think my dh is just stupid tho. Sad to say.
I suppose I could save cash from my kids acct- but I would feel kind of guilty about that.
I'd like to see him pack up and go and have to pay for us to live here. LOL Thats dreaming I know. I am just tired of it. I am ready to feel good again and I DONT feel good about myself when I am with him.
For now I think I will just do my own thing. And roll my pennies. rofl!
If you pay at the grocery with a debit card, and take cash back, it only shows up as the full amount. As long as he doesn't look at your receipt he couldn't know.
If you use a debit card, you can get cash back. He will never know unless he sees the actual purchase receipt. The only thing that shows up on the statement is the total amount.
We posted at the same time, so my debit card thing doesn't apply. Honestly, this is abusive. You are being kept from having any access to liquid assets, by making you use a credit card he gets to monitor your account and spending, and limit it if there is a card limit. I personally think you need to take some kind of action, but that's JMHO. If you decided to file for divorce, he wouldn't be able to withold funds or change access to any accounts. The courts would make sure you had adequate access to money that belongs to you. Even though you don't work, it's not just *his* money.
If you use a CC at the grocery store you can get cash back also and it just shows up as a total sale.
Also if you have a CC couldn't you just take a big amount off at once adn leave on that. Do you have family you could stay with? Are there really young kids involoved? Good luck.
I was a single parent with a newborn until he was 3 and it is hard but it is do-able. I bought my 1st house on my own as a single parent just on my income.
Good luck.
I dont know why, but knowing that you have no access to cash in your marrage makes me more uncomfortable than any other statement that you have made anon. Since you are on the accounts now there is nothing stopping you from going to the bank and withdrawing with a counter check the $ in the account, same thing goes for the cc. Just as a word of warning tho, you are equally responsible for the repercussions of doing that. Overdraft charges, cash withdrawal fees, all that will be equally your responsibility. With no income you could easily end up in pretty substantal money problems, and may end up in bankruptcy. Dont want to scare you or anything, just another thing to consider. I am sorry that it has come to this.
AND - she is probably equally liable for all *community* debts - assuming they are in both their names jointly.
You *really* should consult an attorney, you could probably at least get a consultation at no charge, or contact legal aid, if there is something like that in your area.
Face it sweetie, you are in an abusive relationship with a controlling, dishonest man. Your life is not your own, and your kids are learning this behavior too.
Are you trained in any profession, will you be able to get a job *if* you leave? I can understand the desire to be a SAHM, but this is your life and your kid(s)' lives we are talking about here.
I have BTDT, it is not easy, but I can tell you honestly, that leaving the emotionally abusive marriage I was in was the best decision I've ever made in my life. Some things just are not worth it!
ditto everyone above!!!!!
http://www.silcom.com/~paladin/madv/dvagencies.html
This is a site that lists, by state, agencies to help people who are victims of domestic abuse. You may think that's not you, but I am beginning to think it is - at least emotionally.
Do you have friends, women friends, that you spend time with and chat with? Or does your husband control your relationships as he does the money?
I would certainly try to start squirreling some cash but getting cash back on groceries, if he doesn't look at the card receipts. If he does, that's another story, of course.
I don't know what you are going to do, but if you are thinking about leaving or getting him out, I would definitely urge you to contact one of the domestic abuse sites, and a good lawyer. The problem, of course, is to find a "good" lawyer, and the domestic abuse sites may be able to help on that. But it seems to me you are trapped - almost literally - in a potentially dangerous situation, and it frightens me.
Yes, it is very scary to think of trying to do it on your own. And you worry about how you'll manage, with the children. But isn't it a bit scary to think of the image of marriage, and the roles of men and women with each other, that you are modeling for your children right now, and how they may grow up and manage their relationships based on what they are seeing now?
I just checked that site and some of the links are probably out of date. Here is the American Bar Association site: http://www.abanet.org/domviol/victims.html
it lists the phone numbers of state agencies. The national hot line is 800-799-SAFE.
The ABA site also has a link to an article on how an abuser discovers your internet activities. If it were me, I'd go to my local library if they have computers, and check the ABA site there and read the article. There are also some links to potential free legal aid, and some other agencies.
Just wondering how things are today????
OK. Thanks for asking!
I called a womens shelter for some help in my area. They are going to find a counselor I can go to that is cheap. I explained to them that i was trying to go last summer to get help and he kept complaining and making me feel guilty about the cost. It was expensive (like $150 a session or something. ).
I do agree that there is too much control here. But I should say that I have my own issues and have contributed to the problems in my own way I am sure. I am not good at staying calm during our arguments. I can be very bullheaded and cant stand to be lied too and manipulated. So I can get pretty ugly and did end up yelling on Fri night. Even tho- I was *trying* to remain calm. Which wasnt a good thing and I know it.
At this point, I will go to counseling and be responsible for *me*. Thats really all I can do. Then I will go from there. I dont want to leave at this point. However, he may choose to do that.
Just pray they give me the name of a *good* counselor and I can go faithfully and work on my issues. I went to one counselor that was worthless, then another last summer that kind of gave me the creeps when he would lock us in the room together and ask me all about our sex life. I know he was making a point- but i was so embarrassed i didnt care what the point was.
Anon, I know what you mean about losing your temper, etc. I learned, in the couple of years that led to my separation from my husband, that if I yelled or cried, I lost - he just said or treated me as if I were being a typical female and totally disregarded what I was saying. But if I kept my voice down, even lowered my voice so that he had to really listen, he heard me. And, frankly, when I didn't get angry or cry, but made my points calmly and kept him to the subject when he tried to diverge (more on that), it drove him crazy.
Diverging - taking what you say and either changing the subject to something slightly or significantly different and trying to argue about that instead, especially trying to turn the argument to your "illogical", "female", "not understanding" attitude. Response: You are trying to change the subject - what I said and what I want to talk about is .... Over, and over, and over, until he either gives up and sticks to the subject or walks away.
Be clear about what you are unhappy or angry about. Yes, you are unhappy about the lies - but underneath that is he lies to you when he knows he is going to do something that is inappropriate to and disrespectful of the marital vows and relationship. So he does something wrong and then tries to cover it up, and then blames you for getting angry when he does it, because you yell and cry. Response: first, of course, work on not yelling or crying. One of the ways to learn how to do this is role-playing, which I have gone on about at great lengths in other posts. And the counselor - a good counselor - can help you with that. In role-playing, you work out ahead of time what you want to say and practice it, and try to figure out what some of the other person's likely responses will be, and work on your responses to his. One of the things you work on, really hard, is to not give a knee-jerk response to something the other person says, but take a second or two to think about what they really said and what (and how) you really want to say in response to that.
If talking about your sex life creeps you out - and I can certainly understand that, because I've always felt sex was a very private thing - then maybe you need a female counselor, and maybe you can be up front that you are uncomfortable talking about your sex life and need to work into that slowly until you can be comfortable or at least less uncomfortable. A counselor who won't accept that and work with you in that way is not the counselor for you.
I'm really glad you made some phone calls. I encourage you to try to take some control over your life, so that you are not being totally controlled by your husband.
We are here for you - know that and rely on us to continue to "be there".
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