"And I really want to know..." (long)
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion Archive: Archive March 2005:
"And I really want to know..." (long)
"...should I stay or should I go?"
Okay, this is long, but I am down to decision time so I am looking for votes or a poll answer STAY or GO. I need simple. I am/have been praying a long time....going anonymous and changing some details but the essentials are there. What do you think?
Married 18 years. Two small children, 9 and 6.
If you had a husband who was interested in sex the first two years of marriage and then tapered off (we have been to counseling, read books, tried christian counseling, strip clubs, lingerie, medication, etc.) and wanted to have a friendly sexless marriage would you stay?
We have gone as long as two years within the marriage without having sex. Then, I get mad, he rebounds a while but we always wind up back in the same cycle. This April it will be one year (again). I told him honestly and bluntly last year that if we stayed distant for another year, I would leave but now I just don't think I can do it. I honestly have warm feelings for the man. Plus, his parents are both deceased. His extended family is up north and me and our kids are really the only family he has....
Okay, here is a very, very, fair and balance picture of our lives together. He works very hard, he gets lots of promotions, in fact he is in class now to earn another promotion. He is an excellent father. He loves our children unconditionally and I never have to worry about leaving them with "Daddy" to go run errands or whatever. I am a SAHM and we are comfortable financially and he never bugs me to get a job or to do more than my share. He does odd jobs around the house. He even cleans the kitchen or cooks a meal occaisionally.
He is "on call" right now and recently he got "called out" to go to work. Well, it was bedtime for the kids and he had promised to read them their bedtime story but I was prepared to tell the children, "Daddy got called out, sweetie, Mommy is going to read tonight." But no, he stopped what he was doing, took the 10 minutes to read them their story, and THEN went out to work. How many men how priorities like that, ya know?
Okay, now here is the "down side" he does not touch me, he does not kiss me, making love is out of the question and I have not seen him nude in years. He always has his robe or locks the door when he is dressing/showering. I have even wondered if he might be gay but we have undergone lots of counseling and questioning and he swears he is not gay. He just doesn't like sex. He has never liked sex. In fact, he developed a cyst in his private area due to sprem clogging and creating a small stone and it had to be removed. The man does not masturbate. He is just not interested in sex or affection. He will not sit beside me on the couch. Now, he will talk to me about his day. And I have to take synthroid and I often get busy and forget to take it, so he brings me my medicine and a bottle of water in the mornings when he wakes me up to make sure I take it. I have asked him point blank: "Do you love me?" He swears he does. I have asked/begged him to take a vacation alone with me, just the two of us, he is not interested. And yes, we fight about it because I have a great life as a Mom and as a member of our community. But I do not have a fulfilling life as a woman. He is very popular and well-liked and held in high regard at our church and in our community. Lots of women tell me how lucky I am to have him....shoot, there are women in this country who would trade a friendly, sexless marriage with a man who works, cooks, cleans, helps with the children happily, doesn't complain for a man who has sex but sleeps on the couch all day and ignores his kids. I know that. I really do and I try to be grateful for what I have.
I really try to be positive and to look at the good things and to thank God that he isn't fooling around or drinking or gambling away the house payment money, or whatever.....but last night I had another session with my Battery Operated Boyfriend after he went to bed. He even asked me at 10 PM, "Are you coming to bed?" and I said, "No, it has been a while and I think I am going to have a couple of drinks and get out my vibrator." I said it in kind of a provocative way. He just said, "Okay, good night." and went to bed. I figure, I am 38 years old, why hide the fact that I need a sexual release every once in a while?? It didn't even phase him.
I recently read the book, "He is just not that into you." and discovered that my husband is just "not that into me!" and it hurts really badly. But there are so many other great things that he does. And I look seriously at life as a single parent and busting up our family and I think I am acting like a brat and I should be grateful that I have all that I do besides, having gone through marriage and children and seeing the work it takes, I do not want another man. If I end the marriage, I will just wind up having a very meaningful relationship with my vibrator after the kids go to sleep anyway. At least this way, I get to live with a handyman and a free babysitter when I occaisionally go get a haircut or a manicure or something. And he is not mean to me, and he can be very kind to me, reminding me to take my medicine, cleaning up the house for me, bringing me flowers on the occaisional weekend. But he has told me he just wants to be friends. And no, there is not another love interest. I know, for sure, because much to my shame, I hired a detective and had him followed. He doesn't know. I did it because I just could not believe this man would really work and take care of kids and clean house and not want love, affection or sex. I figured he must be getting it somewhere. But no, the detective found nothing and my husband is telling the truth.
He also swears that it has nothing to do with me personally and even says that he loves me. He just doesn't like sex and he wants a sexless, "just friends"marriage.
I want to feel like a woman, I want to feel passion and physical intimacy. I tell myself I am just horny and that is not a good enough reason to bust up my marriage and my family.
And yes, I have talked to him, even begged him and I have had an ultimatum openly "on the table" for a year now and he has changed nothing.
I have even considered putting money in a secret account, in my name only, and hiring the occaisional escort or even having an affair to get my needs for sex/romance filled and stay in the marriage for all the other great and valid reasons. But, of course, someone always finds out and the marriage gets busted up anyway and I really don't want to risk that. However, if he did find out, my response would be "Hey, man, you had your shot for 18 years. For sixteen out of eighteen years of marriage, you have gone as long as two years at a time without sex, affection, or romance. I warned you I would leave you if things didn't pick up, don't come crying to me now all mad because I got sex somewhere else!" But I just don't know if I could feel good about myself living that way.
Last night, I had a very intimate evening with myself. It was okay, and I am not as "tense" this morning. I really do feel better physically having had a release. But emotionally, as an adult woman, it just increases my loneliness.
So, here is my question for you: If everything else is good, even excellent, but there is no affection (no kisses, no hugs, no hand holding, no sex) in a marriage, would you stay or would you go?
Please don't suggest couseling or therapy or whatever.....I swear, I am being completely honest, I have tried everything. Right now, I am down to votes. I am looking for polls. It is decision time.
Thanks. I know this was long, thanks, thanks, thanks.
Stay or go??
(((((Major HUGS))))) Gosh, what a very hard decision! I'm so sorry about your situation. I keep going back and forth in regards as to what *I* would do if in your shoes. It seems all other possibilities have already been explored (counseling, etc.). Honestly, I think I would put my children first. In this case, since everything else is good in the marriage, I think I would make the personal sacrifice and live in a sexless marriage, at least until the kids were out on their own. It seems your DH is a good man. Odd perhaps, because his sex drive, or lack there of, isn't the norm, but is that his fault? Is he doing it on purpose? If you do leave, how on earth do you explain that to the kids? They wouldn't understand and could become resentful towards you for upsetting their lives. I couldn't do that.
You'll be in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you're able to find a solution that gives you peace of mind.
First of all there is nothing wrong with you or your feelings. I understand how you feel and also have a higher sex drive than my husband most of the time. I love sex and get very frustrated if it goes too long in between times. It sounds as though you have a wonderful husband who has some very deep and disturbing issues with sex. I know you might hear a lot of things of like "don't stay unhappy just for the kids" and all but really I would not like to see them cheated out of a wonderful father. I know you would not either. I know you have said many things in the past to him at least I am sure you have. You are correct in the ultimatum. I would make arrangements for leaving and tell him point blank something like this.
" you claim you love me but you hurt me everytime you reject me. It breaks my heart. I love you in every way and it is only natural for me to want an intimate relationship. You say you love me, but I need more than words. You dont choose to hurt someone you love everysay they way you hurt me. I have made arrangements and will proceed with divorce unless you agree to intensly work on this area of our relationship. I don't want you to settle for anything but to truly get some help and work on it and make progress. I don't expect you to jump in the sack today or even this month, but there has to be improvement There has to be tons of effort and I will do what I need to support you in any way. You are robbing the both of us and even our children out of a wonderful marriage where both partners are satisfied. If you love me if you truly love the kids then please decide to truly work on this. "
if he chooses to not work on it then leave. Give it time and leave the door open for him to decide to truly do the work it will take. Maybee he wil come around once he realizes you are totally serious. I KNow you have done counseling and all, but obviously he was not interested in doing the actual work it takes to make improvememt. That is what I would do. I feel for you really. I know that you have been through it. I just hate to see the kids and you miss out, but then I understand how you feel. Make sure he knows you want him, you want this marriage and that it is up to him to decide to keep it.
((HUGS!!)) Gosh, this is a tough one. It sounds like he is a wonderful Father, but that's not a reason to stay married. Being a happy Mom is a better example for your children. I wouldn't stay married just for them. We all need some sort of physical touch and affection. (I don't mean just sex.) I could live without sex, but not without affection of some sort in my marriage. I don't want a roommate.
Is he happy? It doesn't sound like he is. It sounds like you know what you want, but you aren't getting it. Bottom line. I would never, ever tell you to leave though. That has to be totally up to you. It's a huge decision. Please vent anytime. You have my support with whatever decision you make.
Has he ever had his blood tested to check for hormone imbalance? If he has low testosterone levels his sex drive could be diminished.
(((Anon))))
I was also wondering if there is a physical reason for his non existant sex drive. Has he ever tried Viagra or something like that? Is he even able to get an erection?
Could I stay in a marrage as room mates. No, I couldn't. Like Eve, I would never tell you to leave though.
Have you ever asked him if he wants you to get your needs met else where? I could never do that, it is more emotional to me than that. But I just wonder if he expects you to live your life like he does, or it would be ok with him if you got a man on the side just for the sex??
I really am sorry for the sitatuion that you are in. It is a tough choice. I strongly disagree with staying in a marriage for the sake of the children though. I feel it is by our example that kids learn. Sure, they might not know that you don't have sex, but they definately see the lack of affection. It is going to become not normal to them to have someone show them affection such as a hug or a kiss, holding hands etc because they never saw that growing up. So in turn, they could grow up to treat their spouse the exact same way that they grew up. Cycles seem to repeat themselves.
Again, I am so sorry for your situation. I wish you the best of luck with your choice!
I don't think I could stay in a marriage like yours. You don't really have a husband, you have a roomate. I don't think I could go through life without the sweet kisses in the morning and the passionate kisses at night, the little pats on the butt when he walks by, the way he raises his eyebrows when I know he's in the mood. Sex is a very important aspect of a marriage, I don't care what anyone says. You have NO intamacy with him. If you have searched out every other avenue like, councelers, doctors, medication, heart to heart talks with him and he still does'nt feel the need to be close to you then honestly I think I would leave. He says that he loves you but he can't bring himself to show you phyical love? There is give and take in a marriage, sacrifice. Does'nt sound like he is willing to sacrifice for you. Personally I think he is being incredibly selfish. If he is'nt getting it on the side, does'nt masturbate, then I think there is something medically wrong. If he is'nt willing to get help or try to change to save his marrige, then I don't think you should have to put forth all the effort. Why try to save something that only one of you is trying to save?
I would leave. I think the children could still have a great father and a great life with a happier mother. JMHO
At his last check up, I absolutely insisted he have blood drawn and be checked. The doc.came back saying his hormones or whatever are in normal range. Thank you for asking Trina and it is a valid question: and yes, since I have confronted him several times and I have made no secret of the fact that I want more, I would say he is doing it on purpose. And I have no idea how I would explain it to the children. Although, my older child is beginning to show interest in dating and in our dating culture and has commented that "Daddy doesn't kiss Mommy" or "Daddy hold Mommy's hand!" etc. I just laugh it off and when prompted, he will hold my hand. I got a Valentine's Day present because he was with the kids in the grocery store and THEY pointed out to HIM that he should get me something. We still sleep in the same room and in the same bed and one of the options I am considering is turning the study into "my room" and having an "in house separation" but would that just confuse the kids more than moving out altogether? And I think about my kids and modelling and stuff.....and I wonder if they will think that marriage is two people who are just friends who raise kids together? Don't I have a responsibility to be honest with them? And how exactly am I supposed to go about that? Do I say, "Honey, marriage is supposed to be more than this but Mommy and Daddy are doing the best we can." or do I just let them think that this is normal and hope that they will develop an intimate relationship on their own? I mean, sooner or later (thank God probably later) they are going to figure out that "something's up" or "something's NOT UP!" (haha) as the case may be....also, I have been doing reading and research on this and before there was birth control, many couples lived this way and stayed together but I think they at least had physical affection, if not sex. OOOHHHHH!!!! I don't know, I don't know what to do....I just don't know....still polling though. Juli4 I respect your statement, it's good. But I think if I leave I can not leave with an open door, I can't take my kids back and forth and back and forth ya know? I really think I need to make some sort of permanent decision, either stay, accept responsibility for my decision, and quit belly achin' and complaining about it or go and accept the reponsibility of being a single Mom, possibly having to get a Part Time Job and telling my kids that even Mommy has to stand up for herself every once in a while.
That, or have an affair or pay an escort...geez...do I really want to sink to that???!!! Sometimes an hour or two in bed, away from all this, provided nobody gets hurt, sounds like a good idea. Maybe I should just be open and approach him with that:
Something like what Juli4 said only: "I need you to know that I am looking into other avenues to satisfy this problem and I am taking away money our family could use to do it. I will be gone a few afternoons a month and you will have to watch the kids. And when I return, I will not answer any questions. Since I have had a hysterectomy I can not have any more children and I will practice safe sex so nobody will get sick (I hope) but I do have a natural God given drive which requires more than the satisfaction I get from a machine and if you will not put any effort into satisfying it, then I will seek out an alternative." Geez, I have lost my mind!!!
I guess he is happy. I ask him if he is happy and he says, "I am satisfied. Everything we have built here, we have built together. I could never have gotton as far as I have without you. You are my inspiration. I do love you. I just don't like sex."
One time we were talking about his taste in music and I said,(after listening to his style of music all evening) "You know, honey, how you tell little white lies when you are dating? Well, I know I said I love jazz but I don't love it quite THAT much! " and his reply was to laugh and say. "Yes, I know. That's what I did with SEX!"
Anyway, still polling, STAY or GO??
"And I really want to know.......should I stay or should I go?" (That song is in my brain)!
I need replies. I know I post long, but I really do need some insight. I may print this for him. It won't do any good but at least he won't just be hearing from me......
STAY or GO?
And, yes, he says he can get an erection and the few times I just absolutely put my foot down and make him have sex with me, he performs,....I asked him if he just is not attracted to me, but he says no, that's not it. He just doesn't like sex.
I have not had any offers from other men but I am still attractive enough to get offers if I were to put a single out there that I am available. But, God, then I would have to go to Church or go to the grocery store, or to the local PTA wondering if I was going to run into "the other man" yuck!!!! That is another reason to stay, either way, I am probably looking at a long time relationship with B.O.B. because even if I were single, I don't think I'd want to bring another man into my kid's lives.
Isn't there any way to have a sexual relationship with a little romance on the side completely anonymously??? I am, I am, I am losing my mind to even consider these things. But I just can not hold all this in anymore and all the counselors seem to do is give us a book to read. I just need a place where I can YELL (in type) and yet not be heard.
Thank God for the Anonymous button!
Still polling (believe it or not) STAY or GO?
I don't think a decision like that can really be polled. I talked to my dh about it and he said that the situation is so complicated that it is hard to give advice. It is complicated by the fact that he is a good father. Do not burden your children especially right now with any information on what is going on in the relationship. When they are older I am sure the conversation will come up and they will most likely lose some respect for their father. But at this age it would burden them and they don't need to know. Provide little info and do not talk bad about their father whatsoever even if it is true unless they are acutally in harms way and it does not seem to be the case.
Was he in the past into a lot of sex like pornography or something? You reap what you sow and if he was into a lot of stuff and now he has seen everything and nothing really turns him on anymore that can be an option. What is his background as far as parents go? What was their relationship like? Will he compromise for the sake of the marriage. Like affection during the day or every other evening hugging on the couch and then sex maybee once a month or something. Marriage is about negotiating and compromise and not only by one person. Wish I could be of more help.
It is complicated. Plus, I am very upset so I am probably saying too much and not being very clear.
Bottom line, I still need to make a decision.
So, with respect to Juli4's opinion...still hoping for some responses.
STAY or GO?
I honestly don't know what I would do. I don't think I could stay in a relationship without physical touching and affection. Lately, my dh has had a decreased sex drive and we are not together as frequently as we used to be. However, we are still very affectionate physically. I can handle not having sex as much as we used to, but I don't think I could do without the touching and kissing, etc. I can see reasons for staying until your children are older. But, then I say, "Hey, you are only 38, you have your entire life in front of you, why stay in marriage with no affection." I feel that sex is one of the most intimate ways that we connect with our partner. It is the one thing that we share with only them. So, I guess as far as your pole. I really don't know. Are you happy?? Can you continue to live like this?? What happens when your dks grow up. Are you going to stay with him then??
Would he agree to a masturbation session? At least so that you are not doing it all alone? That way he isnt pressured to do the deed but takes a role in seeing your needs met? You would not have an expectation of him having an orgasm or stimulation, it would be all about you?
Sex and physical contact are apples and oranges. Would you be able to stay if he took more initiative of just touching you? Not ever leading to sex, just physical contact, hugs, chaste kisses, that sort of thing? Because the rejection isnt just sex, imo, it is not having any contact at all.
I honestly dont know if I would stay or go, I think you need to project a normal life to your children and if they are noticing that dad never touches mom, that isnt it. Likewise having dad there on a daily basis in their lives is important too. I wish I could give you better advice. If you do decide to go, make sure that you take care of you and the dks first. Make sure you know where your records are, where the money is. Unfortunately sometimes it's less lonely being alone.
My first thought is not to go the route of buying escorts and such. There are so many STD's and diseases out there, you can never fully protect yourself. This really is a no win situation. You leave you hurt the kids. You stay, you hurt yourself. I know you changed some details at the top and if one of them are your kids age and they are indeed older, I would stay until the kids are out of the house and then re evaluate the situation and go from there. I really dont have much to add since you've exercised every option pretty much but I really hope you the best. I have a DH who is over active in that area so I dont comprehend. But 2 years? wow! (((HUGS))) After 18 years, I dont think much will change. But it seems to me that while he's saying he indeed does love you, hes also saying that your feelings arent valid and he shouldnt have to have sex with you.
I'd say stay, because it's one thing to not be interested in sex with *you* and another to not be interested at all. Also, there are worse things, like a man who is addicted to sex, or a father who doesn't care about his family. I'm not saying stay forever, but keep trying for now. If he is really determined to have an asexual relationship, perhaps you should tell him "Either I'm getting some here, or I need to go outside, because I am human and need attention." My honest opinion? He has some sexual desire that he feels embarassed about, or has had a sexual experience that makes him feel sex is dirty or unnatural. Only he really knows what's going on in his mind, but *VERY* few people are truely asexual. I think most of us go through our bouts of non-interest, but very few are permenantly that way. I'm sorry, I know this is difficult.
I say stay as well. At least until your kids are old enough to either undersatnd or are out of the house. I want to send you many {{{{{HUGS}}}}}. I am so sorry that you are going through this. I have a low libido and it bothers my DH, but he helps me get in the mood.
Have you tried to help him in that way also? I am assuming you have. Can he give you one explanation as to why he does not like sex? I would want to know exactly what it was that he did not like about it, and see if it can be changed. I don't know what I would do, and I am sos orry that this is happening to you sweetie.
Based completely on the info you've given, I would stay but ONLY if you can stay without cheating on him, with or without his permission. As far as 'modeling' for your kids, it would be worse to model infidelity. So I truly would advise you to stay put provided you can put up with it all.
I'm sorry you're going through this....I wish it would work out for you!
My first thought was..."Is he gay and just really hiding it?" Or, "Does he just have really low self esteem?"
I'm thinking that he needs to give you a REASON why he doesn't like sex. Is his "size" an issue? Is he overweight and self conscious? I know if *I* don't feel sexy, I won't have sex...that includes being overweight.
I would stay and get to the bottom of it all...and, getting sex elsewhere isn't going to solve it. Be persistent with him. He should also feel like he can give you the reason without any judgment.
I think I would leave. I don't understand why he wouldn't want to please you even if he doesn't want to have sex. There has been many times that I just wanted to roll over and go to bed but my husband wanted to have sex so I did. I feel pleasured just from pleasuring him. In a marriage you do things that you don't want to really do but you do it because your spouse wants to (obviously no everything but you know what I mean  ). Plus, I think the kids are getting old enough to understand that Mommy and Daddy don't show any affection towards each other and they most likely will do that to their spouse. Good luck. (((HUGS)))
Oh darling! STAY, definetely, i haven't had time to read all the posts, but please Anon, STAY... I think sex is an important part of any marriage but it is not the MOST important part. Why don't you stop worrying about it, have one last talk with your dh (but don't get upset or give him threats) and from then stop worrying about it for a while. I reckon that the more you worry about it the more anxious you become, the more your dh is likely to avoid you. Lots of hugs to you.
Maria
I have though about it some more and why after 18 years are you thinking of leaving now. Why not sooner? Has he been this way the whole marriage or maybee just a few years into the marriage or what? I mean if he always this way then that is odd but if something happened at some point and then he became this way. If everything physically is ok then I doubt that he doesn't masturbate or think sexual things or something. I am sorry for all the hurt you are going through and I hope that it improves at some point. Print this out and leave it in the bathroom or something. That might bring an interesting conversation that may help him see that you are the normal one and the way he feels is not normal
oh and sex is not the most important thing in the marriage but from experience if things are not going well or going at all in that area it becomes the most important thing and if things are normal for you then it does seem as though it is not that important to the relationship.
I hope we have been of some help
I'm sorry that you're going through this.But ,I agree too that if you can handle it ,hang in there untill the kids are out of the house.Maybe all children don't react the same,but my 3 grown children still have problems related to me and their dad's divorce.Don't laugh when I ask this,but why don't you write Dr.Phil and ask his oppinon? I watch him a lot,and for the most part,I think he usually gives pretty sound advice.Just a thought.
Are the answers you get here really going to affect your decision? It sounds to me like you want to stay in your marriage but you want your DH to change. Nothing is going to change him until and unless he wants to change. You say you've given him an ultimatum, but things are still the same. Perhaps he knows it's an idle threat? You've been living this way for the past 18 years and he may not realize how serious this is to you.
I'm not sure if you're looking for us to push you towards one decision or the other, but I hope that whatever decision you make is because it's what's best for you. Dear Abby's old adage was to ask yourself, 'Are you better off with him or without him?' I'll expand on that and add, Can you be satisfied and comfortable enough to live like this for the rest of your marriage? Do the positives outweigh the negatives? When you look back ten years from now, will your regret you stayed or will the compromises you're making be worth it?
I'll also add that I think in exceptional instances a sexless marriage can work as long as both partners are in agreement. On the other hand, sex and intimacy are vital elements in a marriage, especially when you are both so young, and you seem to missing that intimacy as well.
Is he affectionate with your children? Does he hug and kiss them? Does he avoid physical contact with other adults? Handshakes, social hug or kisses? I don't know a lot about it, but isn't there a sensory disorder where a person just can't stand physical contact?
As far as what to do, only you can decide. If you are feeling unfulfilled, then go.
Others have posted that it could be worse, or something to the effect that he's not abusive or an alchoholic etc. Any of these things would be reason to go - but so is mental abuse - and that's what this is. He wants a marriage of convenience, which went out of style a long time ago.
You have a good friend, a babysitter, handyman - your description - you can pay people to do these things! You don't look to pay for sex or to have an affair. You can't let his behavior make you do something self destructive.
I think staying with him will have a huge effect on your children. They will have a very warped idea of what marriage is.
If you both wanted to live this way, then I'd say stay, but since it's not a marriage for you and a great source of torment, then go. Your children will adjust and so will you.
Who knows, leaving may just help him find the spark again.
Hugs to you and good luck.
Ame
There is really something well below the surface and he is not telling you or he is actually burying it and repressing it and maybe he can not remember it.
Was he sexually abused at any time in his life.
I don't think I could stay, I would feel like I was constantly being rejected and them my self esteem would go down hill.
Sorry no advice, but he and you do need help.
Maybe he should go to a psychiatrist?
Will your DH *agree* to letting you get a boyfriend? Do it with his permission? You could easily find someone on one of the matchmaking websites.
I've never been married, but I do know folks who have had secret affairs (don't we all) but I also know folks who have spouse-sanctioned affairs. (Who knew?)
First off, I thought of the same thing as Heidi and Crystal, wondering if he has some self-esteem issues or is embarrassed. I am so sorry, I am on Dr.'s orders right now and it has been a month for me and dh and it is really hard. I couldn't imagine 2 years! (((((hugs))))) In any couseling did it come up that he has low self-esteem or was he sexually molested as a child and doesn't like sex? Again this is a horrible thing, I hoep you guys can work it out. I wouldn't give up, yet anyway. so sorry you are going through this.
Ok, I am posting Anon as well, since this is sensitive personal information about me. I say stay...BUT, I am alot like your husband. My dh and I have been battling the sex issue for years now. I just don't like it either. I am 36 and have been like this my whole life, with every man I have been with. I cannot explain it, I am not into the opposite sex at all (eww...), I just don't have it there. I grew up in a home where it was not spoken of, talked about as if I would go to hell if I did it before marriage (I did). I had sex at 16 and it was a horrible experience (long story)...I had to ask the guy if it was over...it was just awful, basically a pull up the skirt in the back seat thing...I kept it to myself but wrote in my diary. My parents read my diary and punished me and called me horrible names for a year, even in fron tof my little siblings at the dinner table. I didn't date my senior year b/c if I agrred to a movie with a boy, my dad called me names and said mean things..so I stayed away from boys. I tend to think this has alot to do with why I am the way I am. I love my dh very much, but he is feeling like you are with your dh...I have been like this with him for 3 years now. We concieved our baby one night out of 6 months with no sex. I hope you understand there is a reason for his behavior, but I truly feel he does love you. I am sorry for how you feel and I know your feelings are normal...its just something with "us" who have an issue that doesn't allow us to enjoy sex.
Has be been abused sexually that you know of? I wasn't, but the verbal abuse growing up really did a tune to me and I think effected me in the other departments as well.
I wish you luck...OH, please try not to threaten him (I know your not, but we take it as that) its like pressure even though we understand your need...the pressure of having to do something is unreal.
I hope this helped some from another perspective.
You never fix marriage problems by going outside the marriage. It never works long term and if you are worried about being an example to the children then what example would it be for them to discover now or 10 years from now that you had an affair. I don't think that is a good option for anyone. I do understand how your thoughts could go there though. Your thoughts and feelings are very understandable and important.
Well I don't want to tell you what to do..whether to stay or go but I know that I could NOT stay in a marriage empty of affection...kissing, touching, holding hands etc. All out sex I could live without all the time but not the other things. My b/f is sick right now and came over to visit me even though but we decided on no kissing to reduce my chances of getting sick and even that for a few hours was murder I cannot possibly imagine years (((((((((((( hugs ))))))))))))))
I think you need to do what is right for you and decide whether you can be happy without the physical aspect of a relationship. By reading your posts it seems you can't and yet you want to stay because he's great in every other way.
The ultimate decision is yours but I'm sure everyone will agree no matter what you decide we're all here for you.
I agree with some of the other posts that your children are first, but if your dh is a good dad, he'll be a good dad no matter what the relationship is between the two of you. Second, the model of a healthy marital relationship is TREMENDOUSLY important to your children, and thirdly, your happiness as a woman is an example for your children as well, showing them that 'settling' for something isn't the key to true happiness.
If you're dh loves you like he says he does then I think he should give you a REASON (specifically) why he doesn't want to have sex with you. I just find it *very* unbelievable that this man is getting sexual gratification from nowhere at all. Sex is a basic need, and there are lots of ways to gratify it and it doesn't have to be with someone else at all. I think he has some real issues with sex, honesty, and intimacy. I mean what has changed since the times you had good sex together in the early days? YOU DESERVE TO HAVE YOUR NEEDS MET in this marriage, just as he does. It sound to me like you've gone without sexual intimacy for him, but what is he doing for you as a woman? Marriage is mutual.
No one can decide this for you but there are lots of ways to look at this. Do you want to be old and gray and look back at your marriage and your life and wonder why you couldn't have it all? Your kids will eventually know that things aren't on the up and up with you guys as well, if they don't now. Like I said, if he's a good dad he'll be a good dad anywhere so I wouldn't even consider that. JMHO. Marriage includes a sexual relationship, period. You deserve to be happy and to not sit and wonder all the time what *you're* doing wrong when it's his problem. You're worth getting what you want!!!
I Am curious about something... Was your dh affectionate when you were dating? Did he act like he was interested in you then? Did he kiss you, hug you, hold you, want to touch? If so...then it REALLY isnt fair that he is acting this way after you married.
And frankly if the door is LOCKED often when dh is naked. Well, I beleive he is satisfying himself.
I would have a hard time staying in a relationship where I felt like I was being lied too and where I wasnt getting basic needs met. Your dh doesnt have a medical reason not to make love to you. He should do it to please you even if he doesnt like sex.
So what if he is a great Father. He sure isnt showing his kids how a man and woman should behave in a loving marraige. I dont know about you, but I want my boys to grow up with a good example of a husband and father. Not be taught to ignore and mistreat there wife.
Sorry. It makes me mad that he is treating you this way and I probably shouldnt even be posting. argh!!
Good luck.
I wonder if counseling would help?
I'm sorry you are going through this. It is a very tough situation. I can't tell you what your decision should be, only that you should decide, and not us. Your kids are very important, but so are you. I would probably stay, but then again, I don't know how miserable you are.
(((hugs))) to you... I'm sorry things are so bad.
Big Big ((( HUGS ))) to you!
Does he cry and seem upset when you talk
about leaving him? Does he beg you to stay?
Has he ever told you why he hates it so much?
As for the staying in it for the kids sake,
my parents got divorced 3 years ago and let me tell you I was a mess. It was the most stressful
thing I have even had to deal with. Don't think that when your kids are older they will be able to handle it better. They may not. So I would not stay just for the kids.
I say Go Go Go
On a sex marathon Have another heart to heart, tell him you'd like to have sex three times a week for 3 months, if he can't perform at times, ok, you just need to be held and touched, no judgements, no boundaries, just let yourselves go and get into eachother. Sometimes you just need the habit.
On the question of stay or go? Would you stay married to this man if for reasons beyond his control he were impotent? You still have your needs, I don't see why anyone needs a chosen friendship marraige, you can co parent the children in seperate homes, the physical relationship is the difference between most marraiges and freindship, so I may lean toward going, it sounds like the two of you would be the perfect candidates for getting along for the children after divorce. But I'd still try the marathon first
I am crying as I read your responses. You are all so honest and I appreciate it very much.
I guess the reason why it has been this way for eighteen years is because I have let it be this way for eighteen years. I keep asking/threatenign/promising/giving ultimatums/drinking at times/lingerie/therapy books/I am out of ideas.
I appreciate all of ya'll's honesty. And I appreciate the other anon posting about how she is the one who doesn't like sex and her DH is feeling like I am feeling.....really, it is a personal rejection.
And just for the record, I am honestly feeling like having an affair but it is just a feeling. It is a strong feeling but just an emotion not a decision. I wouldn't model that behavior with my kids.
He is working (OT) and I called him and he's trying to fix some problem at work. Everybody there just thinks he's great.
I have asked him, I have talked to him, he insists it is just a personal perference. I don't know what to do anymore.
And yes, ya'll's input will have an effect on my decision because I can be honest with ya'll and ya'll are objective. I figure these opinions are pretty valuable because of the objectivity. I have struggled with him and this issue for so long that I am too close to see it.
And yes, we had a great sex life in the beginning. And then, he started out by saying that I was too affectionate and it made him uncomfortable. Then he said he didn't want to be so affectionate in public. Then he said his (backached, headached, muscles ached, etc.) so I offered massages and/or showers. Then it was that he was financially stressed or work stressed, etc. And as I have mentioned in the meantime I am jumping through all kinds of hoops trying to help him get back to where we were.....we conceived two children and during procreational sex he was attentive but during my two pregnancies he would not touch me. So, with nine months of pregnancy plus two-to-three months recovery that covers two years (on two separate occaisions) then I had to have a hysterectomy after my second baby and that was his ultimate "this seals the deal" and while I was recovering he announced that he wanted us to be friends and to raise the kids together but now that I can't have any more children, he really didn't see the need for us to have a sex life any more. I was devastated but I had just had a baby so I stayed after my second child and things have just kind of gone down hill from there. Occaisionally I DO stand up for myself and make him be intimate with me but most of the time I just let it go, who wants to force someone, ya know? One of the things that really got my attention is a friend of mine has a husband who is very attentive to her physically, he calls her "gorgeous" (she is not gorgeous, but he thinks she is) she sits in his lap, not provocatively, but just affectionatey sometimes when we are socializing with them. He holds her hand. And lately, it just tears me up to go over there and see them. I know I shouldn't be that way, I should be happy for her, but it just makes me sick. I even found myself attracted to HER husband because he is so nice to her and then I realized I am not really attracted to HIM personally I am just attracted to the attention. And he has other failings I am her friend and she vents to me so I know he is fallable. What is funny is that she wants my husband to talk to her husband about being a better father because she just thinks my husband is great. And my husband would just DIE if I told her about our personal problems, so he gets to look like "Mr. Wonderful" and I get to sit and fume (inside). I would NEVER cheat with my friend's husband I am just saying that it is hard to watch. I guess that is what brought it all to a "head" this time. She's just had a baby and her "recovery" time is over and they (as a couple) were lightly joking about "the waiting period" being up. And I guess it just got to me.
So I confronted DH (again) but he doesn't care. It is Friday night and I assure you that this weekend will consist of working on the unfinished parts of the house (we bought a fixer upper) and my cleaning out the clothes closets to get ready for spring. I am going to give all of my beautiful lingerie to my friend, it has been washed and some of it still has the tags on it because my dh wouldn't even look at it and she may as well have it. I'll tell her that it's too small or something...anyway, that's how it all came up again and that's how it has gone on for so long. I don't know if I am really going to leave him or not, when I say I am going to leave him, sometimes he gets tears in his eyes and he asks me not to leave. And I know I pressure him, I did not start out pressuring him, but I am now. I guess I am just desperate for him to take some kind of ACTION! But he is not going to so, as I said, (and I keep coming back here) it is decision time. Either I stay and quit complaining and accept things the way they are (peace at his cost) or I go and face being a part time working single parent. Oh, and here's the "kicker": no matter which one I choose, I will probably still be without much of a sex life because I will have two little kids if I am single and who would bring boyfriends into that???? (I know, I know, bringing escorts home wouldn't be such a great idea either). I just wonder: would I be a kinder person to him if I didn't have the sexual/rejection/issue with him? Or maybe I am just justifying my desire to have an affair. It is all too much for me. I am going to turn in soon.
By the way, I got a lot of "I don't know" and "I am not sure" and I appreciate the honesty of that. As far as I can tell, it looks like I have
7-Stay (at least until the kids are older)
9- Go
Pretty close. I promise to post anon and let ya'll know what I decide to do. He has til the end of April (hopes springs eternal) but I am confessing that I am thinking about a divorce during summer break. Anyway, under Anon, when I finally decide, I will let ya'll know, I will not leave you wondering.
Oh, and if you are reading this for the first time, I am still open. May as well be. I mean, if you think you can save this marriage-go for it-I am crying again but we really don't have much left to lose to each other.
But my kids will be devastated if we break up.
Oh, d**** him!!!!!!!!!!! I get so mad sometimes.
And to the other Anon lady who doesn't like sex, I am sorry sweetie, but I am going to tell you the truth, if your dh is feeling like I am feeling, have sex with him at least two weekends out of four, because if he is feeling like I am, he is not going to be around much longer. I don't mean to be cruel, but that is the honest picture of it, if he hasn't strayed (and I haven't) he will think about it. And I would not wish what I am going through on anybody. Have sex with him. It is one or two evenings a month. And it will make a big difference. Just my two cents.
Anyway, thanks. Good night. Anon.
Oh anon, hugs to you. Have you discussed the whole pregnancy, hysterectomy thing? I know some guys are tramatized about the whole childbirth thing, and the hysterectomy may have been the clincher. Not that he is right, just that may be where he is coming from. I dont know dear, I dont know if I would stay, he really doesnt seem to care one way or the other really if you stay or go, it seems from your last post that he is grieving the idea vrs the reality. If you can stay w/ him and have some remnant of self esteem stay, but it doesnt sound like you like yourself very much for putting up w/ all of this. I would tell your friend, she deserves to know so that she isnt sticking daggers in your heart when you talk. If and when it all goes to pieces you will need a live person besides us to go to. GL Anon, I am sorry you are going through this.
I'm so sorry you are going through this I can hear the pain and desperation in your words. I have thought about this for a day now. I honestly think I would go.
1) What kind of modeling are you doing for your kids anyway if they see two parents living together as friends? What kind of relationships will they have as adults with their partners?
2) I'm not a counselor, but it seems to me your husband's behaviour is passive aggressive. With holding intimacy (not just sex) is cruel. No one should have to be in a relationship and not feel loved and respected. Would you withhold hugs and kisses from your kids?
3) Yes your children will be devasted from a divorce, but with two loving parents they will recover. You say your husband is a good father, he will not stop being a good father just because the two of you are not together any longer.
4) You deserve to be happy. You are 38 years old, by the time your kids are grown you may be going through menopause and you will be going through a whole different stage in your own sexual life.
5) Once you go out on your own, your thoughts and perspective about things will change. Being a single working mom will probably be harder in some ways, but your husband won't just dissappear, he'll be there to help and support the children as well. You will eventually meet someone else and have a real sexual relationship and it may very well be the most wonderful thing that ever happened to you. You will never know if you don't try. Getting out into the work force might also do you some good, it might help boost your self esteem. Perhaps before leaving the marriage, get a job and a bank account, prepare yourself. Take some baby steps and at the very least get yourself ready. Don't have an affair, I don't think you will be satisfied, I think you'll just feel guilty. Also don't feel like this is all your fault and that you are the one breaking up the marriage, your husband holds a great deal of responsiblity in this.
I know you mentioned that we shouldn't suggest counseling. I think maybe you are way past couples counseling if you have already been through that. Get some counseling for yourself. You need someone who is objective to help you through this. It is way too hard to talk to friends about this and they are not objective. You deserve to be healthy, emotionally and physically, take care of yourself, be proactive. Only you can change your life. Stop waiting for your husband to change. After 18 years it's unlikely that he will. Good luck sweetheart, everyone her has a big hug for you. We really do care and yes please keep us posted.
{{{{hugs}}}} In my previous post, I said I didn't know what I would do. However, after reading your last post, I would leave. You really seem so heartbroken over this(I would be too) It is effecting your life in such a negative way and it sounds like your dh doesn't really want to do anything to fix it. It breaks my heart to hear the sadness and despair in your post. I don't see how you can go on like this. I would think that eventually you would become so bitter and resentful to your dh. I personally would leave. You still seem to have a decent enough relationship that you can effectively parent your dks even though you are not together. Divorce is very hard for children, but so is living in an unhappy home. Sex is not the only thing in a marriage. But this is more then sex, this is about intimacy and affection. I don't think I could be in a marriage with someone who says they just want to be friends. JMHO. You ultimately have to make the decision that is right for you. These are just the reasons why I would have to leave.
Ok, you've convinced me. Add me to the "GO" side, anon. You will be able to date as a single mom when the kids are with their daddy - every other weekend and Wed. night. Kids won't know. They may see a happier mom!
Does it make you feel less guilty if you get our permission?? I think you've already made up your mind and I fully support your decision to leave. Your DH is asking a lot, I think. It's a deal breaker.
HaHa. I have to laugh. I took the marriage test on another post and scored 7-12 "Your marriage is in a pivotal point right now....." It's just kind of funny, how even the test says it's up to me to make the decision. I scored 10 then I took it for him (ya know we all do it) and he scored 9. I am still "mulling it over" but this summer is looking more and more like an opportunity to "break free" of all of this. I am so depressed. I still have my pjs on (1:00 PM) and I am seriously considering eating a box of Girl Scout cookies for lunch! I'll count the votes again, maybe Monday and see how it is going, I really do want input because I need to know that I am not a monster for leaving. (If I leave....) and not a "sap" for staying (If I stay.....) So thanks again. Anon
Thanks again. I really do appreciate all of you "listening" and I am going to print it for him, he is working today but he is off Sunday and Monday this week.
Anon
I've been in a sexless marriage for over ten years now. I won't say affectionless because we still hold hands, kiss and hug, but don't sleep together or have sex. He always had a low libido, and for years I initiated sex or did without. I finally begin to feel that the pushing for sex was more demeaning to my self esteem than going without. I use a vibrator when I need some relief and really don't feel that I'm missing much. He wasn't great in bed when pushed. The other aspects of our relationship work well, and I'm fine with us this way. I say stay.
Wow, I personally could never tell someone to leave there husband. I mean I think that everyone has to make that decision for themselves. I also would not think of you as a monster if you left. You have to do what is best for you.
I really think you dh is fooling himself that nothing is wrong with this. I mean if it were just the sex then like the above anyom said probably just low libido. But he seems all void of touch and to me that is not normal. If what I am hearing from you it goes way beyond just sex.
I know you said you went to counseling but has your dh had any personal counseling maybe there are just some issues such as sexual abuse or something that he just can not discuss in front of you. I think that would be my final ultimatium to him that he seek counseling on his own. Good luck whatever you decide and hugs.
He'll be home soon. I just called him to see. So, I am going to talk to him (again) and see if it makes any difference. On thing I learned in the therapy sessions and group sessions was that a problem shared sometimes is a problem lessened. The way it was explained to me, especially with sexual issues, is that we tend to "keep it in" and then when it is shared, we discover we are not alone in our thoughts (of leaving, staying, divorcing, having an affair, etc.) and the problem doesn't seem so big. Of course, to me, this problem still seems huge. But I am confronting him tonight. He is used to having this conversation. we just had it in November. But I am going to tell him, "Do you realize in April it will a be another year since we have been together?" He'll probably ask me how do I know, am I writing it down or something??? But the reason I know is because we were painting the house last time I "put my foot down" and we painted the house in April. So that is how I know. And then we'll talk in circles til he goes to bed.
I probably will seek some counseling for myself. Unfortunately, it will probably be counseling on how to divorce/end a marriage.
Oh, well, ladies, here I go.....he goes back to work Tuesday so you probably won't hear from me again til then. I'll post anon and let you know how the one-millionth-time-we've-talked-about this-talk goes! Anon
10-stay 14-go (I think) I'm nervous. But I think that is the tally right now. Some changed votes, some "I don't knows". Okay, I really am going to "take the plunge" now. He should be home soon. Talk (write) Tuesday. Anon
I'm hoping your conversation went well. Let us know how it went.
I cannot believe you would consider an escort/boyfriend. JMHO. One thing I truly believe is make it work or leave. PERIOD. With children I think it is a black and white issue. And I have lived through a partner who went outside the marriage. It ruined me and it reuined my children. And his reason was that it would "save our marriage".
I also truly believe there is an underlying issue, perhaps a psychological one. Some people never ever tell their inner demons, even to their spouses. I have a low libido now, didn't before, and I worry about meeting someone in the future. Who will want someone with a low libido? I have a lot to give in other ways, but I think people don't care about that.
I feel bad for you. I am sorry about this. He does sound like a good person though and like he does nice loving things for you. Me personally, I believe that marriage is the ultimate commitment, besides having children. I married for life and would have tried to work anything out, did in fact. But taht is me. I cannot tell you what to do. I feel for your husband too because in a small way I understand him.
I hope you find an answer that is right for everyone. I send you hugs and positive thoughts. Subjects liek this make me think I should jsut remain single for the rest of my life!
I just want to say this: Don't stay or go based on what people are telling you to do. You need to seriously think this through, and do what is truly in your own heart, and what is right for YOU.
Take EVERYTHING into consideration, your whole relationship, his faithfulness, his relationship with his kids, before you make a decision. The grass is NOT always greener on the other side. There is something to be said for a faithful husband, a good wage earner, a good father, etc.
Only YOU can know the true dynamics of your relationship. Be careful when making this decision. I DO understand the affect the lack of intimacy has on you, and I do believe that's an important part of a relationship. But as someone else said, it's not THE most important part, and that's my point, all the other parts of the package need to be considered before you make this decision. Because this will change not only your life, but your kids' lives as well, and it will change them drastically.
Good luck in making your decision.
Wow, I'm not sure what I'd do.
I've read a few articles on people like your husband...Just no sex drives. I think there's a few online groups. It makes sense to me that there would be people like that - there's a wide range of differences in sexuality - that could just be one end of the scale. Whatever the reason for the way he is, it doesn't really matter does it? You've tried many things and they don't work. You're frustrated at what he can't give you and he probably feels bad about not being able to give it to you.
This is waaay down the road but what about ending the marriage but keeping the partnership? It really does sound like he cares for you but obviously it's not enough for a marriage. But could you two work out something in order to stay close for the kids? I've heard of divorced couple buying duplexes together. He sounds like a wonderful man, father and partner and you do care for him.
I think you should consider divorce if you're only option is going outside the marriage for affection but divorce doesn't ness. mean ending a relationship, but changing it.
I have been thinking about you and your situation since reading your post yesterday. I am a bit like your DH, with the exeption that I truly want to work through my feelings, and hopefully improve my self esteem and repair my relationship with my husband. We have a child and I worry greatly about the effect on her. I came from a family that never hugged, and I never remember seeing my parents even kiss. And messages about sex were loaded with guilt. Now that I'm an adult and in a relationship, I know it's my responsibility to work through my "stuff". I owe it to husband, my child and myself.
That said, I also tend to believe my lack of feelings may have a lot to do with other marital problems my husband and I are having at this time. I believe we are struggling so much in other areas that I have lost interest in him sexually. I still have a sex drive. I fantasize and find myself attracted to other men. I miss feeling alive and passionate. So I'm a bit complicated, lol. I have these hang ups about sex, but I know things would be better if I felt more love towards my DH. The sad part is, my husband has grown tired of my lack of interest and he has stopped initiating sex. This is actually a relief to me. Yet, he has also stopped any physical touching, and I am missing the hugs, hand holding, just the tenderness. So I guess I can understand your lonliness.
I'm not sure why I shared all this with you. Your post has touched me, and my heart goes out to you. I am so sorry you are in such pain and faced with this decision. If only he was willing to get help for himself. In your shoes, that would be a big issue for me. It doesn't sound like he is willing, or perhaps it's just too painful to face his feelings. I understand that very well. Yet, I know it's the only way to get beyond this wall.
I guess all I want to say to you is please don't let your spirit die. Stay alive and please think about getting some counseling for yourself. No matter what you decide, you will need the love and support.
Sending a hug your way. I know you must be sad and scared. I think you've reached a lot of us here with your honesty. You strike me as a strong person with a wonderful heart. You are in my thoughts and prayers. You are not alone.
I haven't readd ALL of the other responses, but quite a few of them.
Is it possible that HE is having an affair with someone else?
It seems that he is gone a lot and gets "called out" a lot. Have you checked up on him?
Someone can be a perfect person in family relationships and still have a "dirty secret" on the side. Look at the BTK killer. No one had any idea. (not that your dh should be compared to him at all, just something I thought of off the top of my head)
((((hugs)))))
I would stay. Unless I found out that he was the one doing the affair thing. Then, I'd be gone.
I think anon had a private eye investigate him and turned up nothing.
Oh, Sweetie, reading your posts brought back SO many memories! Your story was mine up to ten years ago.
I am an old fossil.
I have been married as long as you have been alive, and was with him five years before that.
We met very young, in high school. I came from a disfunctional family. I had a Mom with very low self-esteem, and therefore, she projected her perceived short-comings onto me. I was never "good enough", and could never please her. She had a violent temper, which I think was borne of her feelings of powerlessness. She would lash out at my Dad and me. My younger sister was her favorite. I learned, in much later years, that she was very cold to my Dad sexually. She herself was the product of warped upbringing. She was raised by a Victorian-era grandmother, to whom sex was "dirty" and just a "wifely duty". You weren't supposed to enjoy it. Therefore, that's the crap that I grew up hearing. However,I have always been like my Dad, with a normal, somewhat high sex drive.
My (then) boyfriend was your typical horny teenaged boy. We started having sex way too young. I look back and thank the Lord that I didn't get pregnant, because in those days, they had "unwed mothers homes", and my mother told me that that is what she would do to me. You went there to have your baby, and it was whisked away for adoption, most times without the mother even getting to hold it. This was done to avoid any "disgrace" or "scandal" to your family. I'm a Grandma, and I can't imagine letting your flesh and blood grandchild go to strangers, because you cared more what the neighbors thought, but that was my mom.
DH's parents were no better, in a reverse way. His Dad was 24 when he got married. The mom was 16. They were both virgins, and she got pregnant on her wedding night. When her baby was fifteen months old, she had another baby, and he stopped having sex with her. It was a only a fluke that nine years later, they went on a vacation, it happened, and then they got my DH. That was the end of their sex life.
I felt bad for my mother-in-law. She came from poverty, and married young (it was the Great Depression) to stop from starving. She worked very hard all of her life in factories, and raised her three children.She was still a very young woman, with an asexual husband. She worked with people that were a little "rough around the edges", so she had to listen to them all day, talking about their great sex lives. She was sad, frustrated and lonely, and really grew to RESENT my father-in-law. There was no affection between them, so my DH grew up in that environment.
My mother-in-law tried to tell me NOT to marry her son. She said that all of the men in that family were weird. My DH has two male cousins that didn't marry until they were in their forties, and because they are real devout born-again Christians, stayed virgins until then. Even as a teen-ager, I did think that that was weird.
My DH was in the military, so our newly-wed times were few and far between, but when we were together, we were like rabbits. I was on the Pill for the first four years I was married, as we didn't want to have a baby until we were going to be at a duty station for a few years. We had our baby daughter, who is now 32 and a Mom herself. Even during those four years prior to her birth, however, he was starting to push me away. If I initiated sex (which I almost always did), he would tell me that he had "to get up in the morning for work". I would feel SO rejected, and I'd lie next to him, all horny, and listen to him snore.
It got a little better for a while, but he still had odd aspects to his views on sex. If I said, on his way out the door, "I'm going to 'get' you tonight", he'd get mad and say, "I don't like 'planned sex'". I would listen to all my other military woman pals talk about their sex lives in great detail, and felt left out.
He also has never been a good lover. There is no affection, in or out of the bedroom. Sex was a mechanical act for him, with one goal, HIS orgasm (and as quickly as possible, I might add). I had a friend that bragged about her awesome orgasms, and I had no idea what she was talking about. I didn't know that it was possible to have one during sex. He never wanted to try anything new. He resented women talking about their sex needs. He was even uncomfortable talking about menstruation, or other "women's issues". To this day, he doesn't really know much about a woman's body. Up until quite recently, he thought that we urinate from our vagina. Honest!!
When my DD was about three years old, I wanted to have another baby. She was a bad asthmatic, so he said he didn't want to bring another child into the world with asthma. Her pediatrician finally convinced him that, whenever possible, a child shouldn't grow up alone. I still remember the Saturday morning that my DS was conceived, because after that, the times were so infrequent. I used to always mark on the calendar when we had sex (I guess partly because, if I was "late", I knew when we "did it").
I was amazed at how long the stretches would go between encounters. I, too, tried the lingerie, sex books, anorexia (I thought I was too fat at 125 lbs); bleaching my hair blonde; writing him sexy love notes in his lunch box; you name it. We tried counseling, Christian and secular. Our Christian counselor, after my telling him all the things I did to turn him on, looked at DH, and said, "What's the matter with you, man? Is your "wood wet"?"
I KNOW how degrading it is to be pushed away, or to be treated as a roomate. My DH, too, is a good provider, generous, loves his kids and grandaughter, loves animals, goes to church and holds positions in the church. He and I support several charities. His paycheck is direct deposited, and he never asks what I do with the money. He is a good man in many ways.
He has never been jealous, which kind of hurt me. I, too, used to figure that he must be masturbating, and I knew he was, because I caught him a couple of times. He doesn't lock doors, but had made comments about not having "any privacy in this house". Then I thought he must be cheating. While he DID form a "friendship" with a woman in the military that was more than friendship, he claimed there was no sex. Knowing him, it's possible. (Not likely, but possible). That almost caused us to divorce. The only reason I didn't was because of the kids. I knew that I couldn't support them like he could.
Though I wanted more children, I had my tubes tied when I was 34, thinking that if the risk of pregnancy was gone, he'd want me more. I was so grateful when I got pregnant with my second child, because I knew the odds were slim. Well, having the tubal did nothing. And, of course, like most women, I thought it was ME. I already had the "I'm not good enough syndrome", from being raised by my Mom.
Like my mother-in-law, I grew to really resent him. I, too, thought of having an affair, but two wrongs didn't make a right. Plus, that always ends up hurting many people. I was afriad of what my kids would think. I didn't want to lose their respect. I didn't want to bring a strange man around my children, and I was afraid of getting a serial killer, or something. And, my religious beliefs prohibited it. My sister was divorced, and she had a string of men in her life, and it affected her kids, and does to this day, and they are grown.
Like you, I tried to dwell on the good things about my life, and my DH. I knew that I could get a man who wanted sex, but could be a wife beater or something. I, too, would feel SO keyed up sometimes, needed sexual release so badly. I've never had a vibrator (too shy to buy one), but I pleasured myself in other ways. It DID relieve the stress.
My husband had a mental breakdown a few years before he retired. Only THEN did I learn, in his therapy, that his Mom had affairs on his Dad. She never drove, so she got my DH a car when he turned 16. She used to have him drive her to meet her lovers. She would make him get out of the car, while she climbed in the back seat with her lover. I was flabbergasted! All the years I knew him, and I had never known that. He admitted that he had had a LOT of conflicting emotions about that. I also wonder if he hadn't been sexually abused at some time in his youth, that has been repressed.
The good thing is, now that I have been through menopause, I have totally lost MY sex drive. I could care less! I feel that God has delivered me from that burden. (Though I have a friend who tells me that I've never had a "good one", and if I did, my fires could be rekindled. LOL!)
The interesting thing is, now DH wants sex a lot. He complains that he "doesn't get any", and that he "shouldn't have to live the rest of his life without sex". When I tell him, "Now you KNOW how it feels", he tells me not to live in the past. I AM resentful that, when I needed him, he withheld from me, but now I'm supposed to be there for him. I try to avoid him as much as I can. I've had my own room for eight years. I have my books, my music my TV, and my cats.
I love him, but it's only a love that comes from a long-time relationship. I would always take care of him if he got sick. His folks are dead, and his siblings' lives are so screwed up. They have had multiple marriages, and they are very low class.DH doesn't bother with them.
I don't know what to tell you, sweetie, except that you are NOT alone. There are many who have lives like ours. I have walked your path, and it's painful in many ways. No one can decide for you, but you. I DO believe that when we have children, we need to put what is best for them first. Your DH is a good Dad. He loves his children, and I'm assuming that they love him, too. They won't be little forever. Time goes by VERY quickly. If, when they are grown, you want to make a new life, you can, without guilt. However, THEY would NEVER understand your reason for leaving their Dad. They're children. And I would caution you NOT to discuss your problem with them, even when they are a little older. It's too much for kids to take in. They'll figure it out when they are grown. I made that mistake, and my DS later told me that he really didn't want to know those things about his Dad. TMI! Children don't want to think of their parents as sexual beings anyway.
If I had it to do over, would I have left? I maybe would have left when my kids left home, however, I would have had to have a career, where I could support myself (which I don't). Now DH has a bad heart, and I couldn't leave him.Even though, when I was younger, I needed sex so badly that I would fantasize about other men (even my own pastor), I never went outside the marriage. That is never the answer.
I do believe that sex is important. However, it isn't all there is to a marriage. I admit, I missed the cuddling, hand holding, warm kissing, more than I missed the sex. I TOTALLY relate. However, life is full of dissappointments. Due to a thyroid condition, I am much heavier than I've ever been, and I'm sure that that doesn't please him. Look at people whose spouses become ill after marriage. Not something we bargain for, but maybe it's part of lessons that we need to learn while we are here. Acceptance is a big key to contentment.
I didn't mean to ramble, but I SO relate to your story. My opinion is, that your husband has a severe emotional, and not physical problem. Something in his past is affecting him, and it manifested after your marriage. He has a hang up about sex, and being married puts the pressure on him to perform. Masturbation is non-threatening, because there are no expectations. I do know, though, how resentful you feel when you find out that that is what he is doing. Don't think that it isn't hard on him, too. Working with other men, they all talk about sex. He must have to put up a macho front. He has either an insecurity about his body or ability to perform, or feels inadequate in some other way. I agree with the others that said that he could have repressed sexual abuse from the past. What were his parents like? Did they have taboos about sex? The other thing that's possible, and I know that this prospect gives you chills, as it would any woman....maybe he has a gender identity issue that he is suppressing. HBO had a movie called "Normal" a few years ago, where a man in a long time, marriage with grown children, realized that he was trans-gender. As you can imagine, it was a heartbreak to his wife. SOMETHING is eating him, and therapy won't help if he doesn't acknowledge, or worse, doesn't realize that he has issues.
(((HUGS))) to you. I wish there was a simple answer.
My Mentor "Anon" (above). I loved what you wrote. It was so honest and clear. I have another post update above about what I decided to do and why, it is long so I won't go into it here.
I loved what you wrote so much that I printed it. It is my intention to put it in my purse and read it when the "hard times" come to remind me that I am not alone.
As far as him wanting sex now, I don't know how I would handle that. When Joseph in the Bible was sold by his brothers into slavery and then the brothers came to him later because of famine in Egypt, Joseph fed his brothers and didn't hold a grudge about the past. He told them, "You intended it for my harm but God worked it for my good." I don't think I could do it but in The Bible the story goes that Joseph forgave his brothers, didn't hold a grudge and fed them. So, could I have sex with my husband after years of neglect, make love with him, and not hold a grudge?? I honestly don't know.......I do know that the "my own room" idea has surfaced a few times and I appreciate your sharing that you've had your own room the past eight years because I am considering that idea.
You have no idea (or maybe you do) how much it means to me to know that there is another woman somewhere living through this too.
Due to some recent events in my life (in another post here Update From Anon) I have prayed and committed to the relationship, before God, to the best of my ability. I really am going to try to live for The Lord and not let the bad part of my marriage "outlast" the good parts. But I am sure it will be difficult and I am sure I will read your post many times. I am going to put it in my purse and keep it to remind me that someone else out there is doing this too.
God Bless You and Thank you very much.
Anon.
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