Let me begin by saying I am new to this site and am from NE PA. I just posted this in response to a topic titled "How to end a friendship" Then I realized it was about 8 months or so old so I just copied and pasted what I wrote because I am interested in any peoples thoughts... Thanks.......................................... I would recommend letting the friendship just fizzle out too. I deeply regret the way I ended a relationship/friendship w/ my SIL. I ended up saying some things that I wish I hadn't because it really only hurt her and nothing more was accomplished. I told her if we weren't related we probably wouldn't even be friends and would never get together and some other hurtful things. Even though the things I told her were true as to how I felt it didn't need to be said. I think I should have just avoided get togethers and limited time together to holidays and our childrens b days. which is actually quite a bit we have seven kids between us. I reached a point I just wanted to move away and still do sometimes. She is not a bad person, but everytime we got together she would make little comments, like jabs ya know? She seemed to be kinda flirty to my husband which if I felt she liked me it probably wouldnt have bothered me but deep down I feel like she purposely says and does subtle things to get to me. I am sorry for rambling but I haven't talked to anyone about this except my husband who really does not want to hear it ( I dont' blame him I guess) Her husband is so annoying to me too (my husbands brother)There seems to be this competition stuff between my husband and him about anything (kids, money, etc.)We helped them out so much like her husband came to stay with us so he could get a job and move them down , he came the day I came home from the hospital with my 3rd child. He knew noone was to smoke in the house yet he kept smoking in the bathroom when he'd shower, she ended up coming down a week or so later with her 2 kids knowing the oldest had just been diagnosed with RSV (thankfully my children didnt' get sick or anything and my nephew recovered well too, but it just kinda started there like when her kids used the potty chair she would just leave it(not just pee either) on and on.We bought them a car an older car around 800.00 and she complained about the car my husband picked out, I would tell my kids not to eat in the living room and she would ignore her kids as they would go eat in the living room. I lended them a bassinet in very nice condition they actually returned it with the liner ripped and the wood frame broken and sticking out and said "well it still works" I was so upset I threw it in the dumpster when they left because the salvation army would not have taken it either. I know they didn't have a lot of money but atleast an apology for the condition or something. I guess my problem was just never saying anything and letting them do things like that to us. These little things went on for years literally and I guess I just finally got fed up. It got to where I always felt bad after get togethers with them. Even though we had some fun times it just seems that I cant' deal with them anymore. Well I could go on but I shouldn't cause it really does no good. Well as I said in the beginnig I basically said hurtful things to her and burned bridges I guess you could say. I did apologize for hurting her but things won't be the same. We talk now at get togethers but it is very surface level now. I used to be there for all her problems and there were many ... the same types of things we all deal with as a mom and wife and I always encouraged her that we all go through the same types of problems etc and was there for her. That can be very draining as well always encouraging someone. She is doing great now and doesnt really need that type of help . She is very stable and is good in that area . So anyway I guess, just as there are seasons of weather patterns there are seasons of friendships or relationships things change people change. I would appreciate any thoughts from anyone who takes the time to read all this.
Thanks Vee

By Colette on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 04:09 pm:

"just as there are seasons of weather patterns there are seasons of friendships or relationships things change people change."

I agree. I am not friends anymore with several people who at different times in my life were really close friends. You do tend to grow apart, evolve and find other interests. I think that's all part of life.

By Mrsheidi on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 08:23 pm:

You know, people need to hear what everyone else is afraid to tell them. There is a reason why people are the way they are...no one is there to "keep them in check" sometimes. When I have someone (ok, my husband) tell me things that I need to improve on, I take it to heart. It's not like he has just "made it up" to hurt me...I can tell it bothers him and it all depends on whether or not the person is willing to change. If not, they lose friends, and maybe they learn the hard way...there are always those kinds of people.

I've learned that you don't have to be friends with everyone and that, if you truly care about a person, you'll let them know if you're hurt.
I recently had a sorority sister who was wondering why she was losing friends...I gently told her that she tends to come off as demanding and self-centered sometimes. (Not in those words.) I think she was shocked at the fact I told her, but also she respected the fact that I am still her friend despite the notion that I had come to that realization and still accepted her.
Remember, like Colette said, people change and you can move on...some things aren't meant to be. Don't feel guilty...I know things were said out of anger, but you can tell she's changed...that's all that matters.

By Ginny~moderator on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 06:23 am:

You're right - it does no good to go on about it, and it does no good to keep brooding about it. If you can, try to put it out of your mind.

Unhappily, this couple is a pair of users, and they are relatives - a terrible combination. You broke off the relationship - badly, and you feel guilty about it. For what it's worth, I doubt either of them feels a minute of guilt about the way they used you and your dh and abused the relationship - by which I mean, why should you be feeling guilt when they certainly (well, almost certainly) don't - that lets them still control your lives.

My suggestions: When you find yourself talking about them, stop, change the subject, talk about anything else (in my family we change the subject by saying "how about those Mets?"). If you find yourself thinking about them and how they treated you, stop - find something to do that will occupy your mind and make a very strong conscious effort to stop thinking about them. Otherwise, what you are doing is giving them rent-free room in your head. By continuing to think and brood about this, you are re-living all the events and feeling hurt and angry all over again - not a good thing for you.

My dear mother, two days before she died, was talking about her mother and how much she resented her mother for all the nasty things she did (and she was a very nasty person). If there had been two things I would have changed about my mother, one would have been for her to let go of her anger towards her mother because although she hadn't spoke to her mother for 20 years, it was still affecting her life. (The other would have been to have her be on time for things.) I was really glad that conversation with my mom segued into how much I love her and loved my dad, what a happy childhood they gave me, and how well we lived together and enjoyed living together for the five years we had been doing so. I would have hated to have had our last "important" conversation be about how much she hated her mother instead of about how many good things she gave me and how good it was to be living together.

As Collette and Heidi said, try to move on. You will feel better, have less unhappiness in your life, and be a better person for it.

By Veezme on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 06:57 am:

Ginny , Thank You very much for your response. You are so right about my life being controlled in my head over all this. There have been times I actually woke up with all these thoughts in my head. It is sooo hard to get my mind off this stuff sometimes though. I have been praying that God will remove it from me. It's been around 7 months ago that I voiced all the stuff I felt to her. Grudges run in my family too on both sides. My mom talks about things that have happened to her years ago, and my dad hasn't spoken to his father since I was around 2 , I am now 34. I;ve never wanted to be like that. I am going to have to do what you said and make a very strong conscious effort to stop thinking about them when thougts raise. I had never had a problem with anyone like this before. I didn't have any grudges against anyone except now and I guess I have to let this one go. I don't want to end up bitter. It would be much easier if we could move away though. Thanks again for your thoughts and input from all of you.

By Kernkate on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 07:40 am:

Vee, everyone gave great advice. I have been in similair situations and learned to move on. You will feel better.
I am also from NE PA

By Ginny~moderator on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 08:57 am:

Veez, God helps those who help themselves. If you are praying that God will remove it from you, you have to work at the removal too. God isn't going to step in and do for you what you are not trying to do for yourself.

That said, oh yeah, do I know about grudge holding. My mom was that way, and one of the things I have been trying to do with my youngest son (who has been living with me for the past 20+ months and who has struggled with serious depression problems) is to urge him to let go of and give up his grudges, because they are poisoning his ability to be happy in his current life. I read something somewhere that he found very helpful - hating someone is like taking cyanide and hoping it will affect the other person. Personally, I am fond of the "rent free room in your head" phrase, and have used it whenever it was appropriate.

P.S. I think it's OK to not talk to someone who has hurt you badly, as long as you don't spend time and energy brooding about those hurts. You can't change the past but you can manage your future.

By Veezme on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 01:29 pm:

Ginny , I know I have to work at it too and obviously I haven't been doing my part enough . I think part of it has been wondering if my reasons for the frustration felt towards her is valid and wondering if I am just too fussy or what ever, because my blowing up at her spilled over to other relationships like my MIL who I used to be very close with got upset with me for hurting her(my SIL) and it seems things aren't as good between us as they used to be. It was very unlike me to go off on someone like that and actually I never have in my life before. I guess I wish my MIL could see and understand what I had put up with so long and not think I'm just a terrible person now because I lost it a little, maybe she doesn't but I feel that things are different now. All my family lives in CA. and it is all my inlaws out here in PA. I was closest to my MIL out of all of them , and that seems to have changed now. I don't know. I guess looking back and trying to figure it all out the why's and who's and how's isn't really what I need to do now either. I just have to move on. Ginny are you a christian? I am wondering because well my husband and I began bringing my SIL to church when she first moved here and she got saved (born again) which is wonderful. Well we go to church together now and last Sunday she was crying alot and I felt it might be because she is still hurt about things I said maybe. I didn't ask her what was wrong because I don't feel even right to ask her just out of place to do that, we are so distant now, and honestly she is not one I could have ever gone to if I was in need of emotional help because I would think that deep down she'd get enjoyment in my pain. I was wondering from a christian point of view what should I do to make things as right as I can at this point? I have asked God to forgive me for hurting her. I have apologized to her for hurting her but I still don't feel things are right. What can I do?

By Ginny~moderator on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 02:51 pm:

Veez, I think it depends on how one defines Christian. I am a member of a United Methodist Church; was raised in the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church and eagerly left it; was nothing for quite a while after discovering the role of Christians and the Christian Church in Antisemitism, the Crusades, and the Holocaust; was a Unitarian Universalist for quite a while. Worked for an interfaith organization, thought of converting to Judaism but my Jewish friends and colleagues discouraged me; found I needed a "God" centered worship experience, more than the U/U church was providing and that at root I am a Christian, and settled on the most liberal/left/social justice church I could find in my area, which is where I have attended since 1976, been on numerous committes, am an usher. Am I born again - No, and don't see any reason/need for it, from my reading of the Bible. Do I believe it is necessary to be born again to be in "relationship" with God; no. Do I believe it is necessary to be Christian to be in relationship with God; no.
That answers the one question.

What can you do to make things right? God always forgives, as I understand God and scripture, just for the asking - some faiths hold that you must be penitent and try not to do that thing again and from what you write I think you are penitent and won't do it again. Will your SIL forgive you - probably not. Will your MIL forgive you - possibly, but you'll have to work at it. Seems to me the question is how do you forgive yourself, and I can't answer that - you are the only one who can answer that and I think you'll have to work at forgiving yourself.

Do I think you need to abase yourself to your SIL, tell her things can be like they were and you want to forget it ever happened? No - I don't think God requires us to put ourselves in positions of pain and anger as a condition of forgiveness (that "extra mile" injunction was, in fact, a form of civil disobedience based on the conditions in Israel/Palestine at that time).

I guess it boils down to will you forgive yourself, and only you know the answer to that. I can tell you that until you find a way to forgive yourself you will continue losing sleep. And, since God certainly has forgiven you, I respectfully suggest that you ought not to be harder on yourself than God likely is.

By Veezme on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 03:42 pm:

Well again thanks for your thoughts. I'm going to just work on it and think on purpose. I read that in a Joyce Meyer book once that we can't just accept every thought that drops in our head and roll them around she said we have to learn to think on purpose , Which is what you said too about making "strong conscious effort to think about something else" Well anyway I think it's helped me just writing all this and reading it and hearing your feedback , I guess this will bring it to a close for me. Thanks again.
Vee