We seem to be at an weird place at the moment. For several weeks now, Natalie (2 1/2) has napped about 3-4 days a week, and not at all the other days. All naps are restricted, no longer than an hour and I wake her if needed. Bedtime is around 8:45-9:00, she sleeps until 7:30 or 8:00am.

On the days she naps for that one hour, she is a bear to get to bed at night. She cries and fusses until 10:30pm EVERY night that she's had a nap that day. When she doesn't nap, she goes to bed and is asleep in 10 minutes.

When she doesn't nap, she seems fine for the most part, but usually has a meltdown around 5:30 that lasts about 15min. I moved her naps from 2-3 to 1-2 to see if it would help. It really hasn't made much difference, and she's actually sleeping nearly every day since I moved it back to 1:00. She often drops now at 1:00, I wake her at 2:00 on the dot, and we go on. Some days she still seems tired.

It's just a weird phase. It seems that she needs the nap, but when she does is awake very late crying, fussing, or talking to herself. It's not screaming tantrums, just crying. I just think that when she naps at all, it's really affecting her bedtime. I find myself not wanting her to sleep during a nap, just talk or read, but also wanting her to sleep if she needs it, you know?
Not sure what to do exactly. We're just going with it. It's just frustrating to put her to bed at night knowing that there will still be another hour and a half of 'activity' with her. We usually go to her maybe twice in that time.

Any thoughts? DH and I have talked and talked about it, and we're not sure she should dump the nap altogether. One day is not bad, but if she goes 2 days + without a nap, then she turns into a she-devil during the day. That seems to tell me she needs the nap. I don't like having a toddler up until 10:30 either! Like I said, we seem to be in a weird place.

By Pamt on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 09:56 pm:

I think she's over tired. Why are you waking her from her nap? I'd actually put her down at 12:30 or 1:00 and let her sleep until she wakes up (unless it's pushing 3-4 hours). Do something very physical in the afternoon and actually try an earlier bedtime around 7:30-8:00. If she's overtired she's going to have trouble winding down. When my boys were Natalie's age they were sleeping 7:30-7:30 with a 1.5 to 2 hr nap after lunch. Good luck!

By Kaye on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 10:04 pm:

I agree with Pam. If you can get her down by 1, I would just let her sleep it out. She may be in the middle of a growth spurt and need the sleep. I was one of those bad parents that when they started giving up naps, my middle kid espcecially would crash at 5. I would just let him sleep and then he would go back to bed closer to 10 or 11. I think schedules are great and all, but sometimes you have to just go with the flow and let their bodies lead the way.

By Reds9298 on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 10:35 pm:

That's what we were doing before. She slept about 2 hours one her own and one day the bedtime struggles just started. It was regular, so I assumed that maybe she was sleeping too much during the day. I gradually started shortening her nap, then moved it to 1:00 instead of 2:00. I hate timing her naps, but I can't imagine when she would go to sleep if she slept for 2 hours or more.

I'm willing to try it, but nervous. Right now, she generally sleeps from about 10 or 10:30pm to 7:30, and takes the one hour nap during the day. When she doesn't nap, she sleeps 8:30 to 7-ish.

When she naps, she's a gem all evening and doesn't seem grouchy until bedtime. When she doesn't nap, usually the one meltdown but a good bedtime.

The only thing about suggesting she's overtired is that when she DOESN'T nap, she goes to sleep at night just fine. That doesn't seem to jive with being overtired to me, you know?

By Tripletmom on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:51 am:

I went throught the exact same with Katie and because she slept 12 hours a night she didn't need the nap anymore.We also had the meltdowns that lasted 15-30 minutes.We then made sure there was something fun to do at meltdown down times.It was a bath at that time for awhile.She had a bath,then dinner,playtime and then bed.If you can pin point the meltdown times just have a bath ready before she starts.

By Vicki on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 12:58 pm:

I would tend to think it is time to loose the nap. I always looked forward to dh and ME time at night, so a 10pm bedtime would not be good at my house. We dropped the nap, the meltdowns lasted for about a week, bedtime was 8-8:30 and she actually started sleeping longer at night too. She would sleep a good 12 hours at night. If the late bedtime doesn't bother you, let her nap. But if you want her to bed at a decent time, drop the naps. The meltdowns do go away.

By Mia on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 02:29 pm:

Our 2 1/2yo does the same exact thing. No nap = meltdowns & early, easy bed time. Nap = later bed time. I've found that a nap 6 hours after morning wake up, and bed time 6 hours after waking from the nap, works best for us. Total 11 to 12 hours sleep a day. So we do nap from noon to 2; bed time from 8 to 6. It's an early wake time but that works with our schedule. If you do nap from 1 to 3, she'll be ready for bed by 9 and sleep until about 8.

My older 2 kids also did this, and I do believe it's a transition from from needing naps to not needing naps. The main points are to wake your child at the same time every morning & nap. If she doesn't nap during 'nap time', fine, but don't let her nap later & be sure to still wake her at the same morning time. Pretty soon she'll follow your schedule, and move out of this phase around age 4.

By Mia on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 02:32 pm:

Sorry, my math was wrong - Total 11 to 12 hours sleep at night + the nap.

By Dawnk777 on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 03:43 pm:

I can't remember the meltdown thing, but my kids pretty much stopped needing a nap and taking a nap, around 2-1/2 to 3. Once in a while, there bodies would just clunk out and I always let them sleep, although it usually did mess up bedtime, for that day, but it never got to be a habit.

By Reds9298 on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 04:35 pm:

Vicki and Mia...I agree! I DO NOT like having to tend to her after bedtime just because she's not that sleepy. DH and I are defintely ready for "our" time, so it's frustrating. I tend to agree with you guys that we're somewhere in a transition of trying to phase out a nap.

Then today...she slept until 8:30am (asleep at 10pm or so lastnight)and DROPPED at 1:30. I let her sleep until she woke around 2:45. Who knows?! I guess I have mixed feelings because she's napping A LOT more lately, and falling asleep fast, too.

We tried cutting out the nap altogether a few months ago and after 3 days it was like living with the devil! She was so tired and crabby, so we took that as she wasn't really ready. We could try that again now, and see how it goes.

I remember when we dropped her morning nap around 1yr., she had minor meltdowns at her regular morning nap for about a week, and then she was fine. When we tried that a few months ago, it was much worse.

Dawn- That's what I would like to do. Let her sleep if she needs it, but wish it wasn't regular since it's affecting bedtime. But like I said, she's dropping everyday lately so that makes me feel weird about taking away a nap. Arrghhh.
You guys all have great advice as usual. Thanks!

By Pamt on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 07:30 pm:

Deanna,
I am personally of the opinion that kids need naps until they are about 5 y/o (just so you know where I'm coming from). I think when most kids give up naps around 2 or 3 that they are really going through a phase of changing sleeping habits a bit and it is assumed that they don't need naps anymore when they really just need to change up their schedule a bit. Who knows? Maybe I was just lucky and got 2 awesome sleepers, but we did work at it. Good sleepers are made not born--LOL. Both of my guys slept 11-12 hours at night and took a 1-2 hour nap up through kindergarten. The hands-down most valuable book I ever read about kids and sleep is "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Children" by Dr. Marc Weissbluth (pediatrician AND sleep disorders specialist). It has lots of case studies and explain the schedules and sleep habits of real families. You might want to check it out before totally dropping the nap. Your library probably has it. Maybe we worked so hard at keeping naps because I loved them. I also loved early bedtimes. Also, remember the excitement of the holidays and the changes in schedule that holiday vacation brings makes everything much more complicated. You actually may want to keep the status quo for now and test out some hypotheses in January.

P.S. I just meant that the overtired might be an cumulative effect, leading Natalie just to crash sometimes and fight other times.

By Heaventree on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:23 pm:

Deanna,

I haven't read all the responses but here's where we are at. Matthew awakes anytime between 6:30 and 7:00 am. His nap is very day at 1:00 pm, we are very scheduled here with sleep times. I let him sleep as long as he wants, he usually awakes at 3:30 - 4:00 pm, I won't let him sleep past 4:15. Bedtime is usually at 8:00 pm but sometimes depending on how long he slept during the day sometimes we move it down to 7:30 pm. I love the 7:30 night time, it leaves lots of time for us and I just think it's a good sleep time for little ones. Personally, I wouldn't drop the nap, I'm going to try and keep mine napping until Jr. K which starts at 4 years here. Good luck.

By Dawnk777 on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 08:38 pm:

Sarah was 2 years and 7 months, when Emily was born. I remember plenty of times, putting Sarah in her room for a nap, and she wouldn't sleep. She would spend the whole time pulling diapers out of the bag and trashing her room. She would stay in her room, but never sleep. I just gave up. She must have been fine, otherwise, but I really can't remember. I was also working then, so this would have only been on a day off. I can't remember anymore, if she slept, when she was at daycare.

By Tripletmom on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 09:02 pm:

Dawn,that was exactly like Katie,Sometimes just lying on the couch watching a movie or listening to quiet music with a book helped.We did get meltdowns from her though around 4pm thats when I started bathing her.She'd have a bath,dinner and play and then bed.She slept from 7 to 7 with no problems.My time with hubby is very important to me.Having the early time for bed is way easier and gives the household some balance.It's hard when the only time to relax is basically bedtime LOL My boys sleep from 6pm-7:15am like clock work and Katie sleeps from 8:45-7:45am so my DH and I have a couple of hours to ourselves.We split the chores at night so we both can relax together at night.The boys still have a 45min nap in the am and 1-1/2hr in the afternoon.During grow spurts they totally change on you.Just when you figure them out, they go ahead and change again.

By Reds9298 on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 09:14 pm:

This didn't just start. It's been going on for a few months at least. There were spells there where she was napping twice a week only. I can't *make* her nap, I can only provide the environment for napping. That's up to her. She's not the one to get out of her bed and play. She sings and talks to herself instead.

I'm just tired of fighting with her at night. I certainly don't want her to give up the nap, because even for an hour it's a nice break during the day, but I think I would rather have a peaceful evening. She's not "up" until 10:30, but in her bed fussing or crying. She's ALWAYS been a good sleeper until her 2nd birthday, and it seems since then she's had troubles of one kind or another. I love it when she doesn't nap and goes right to sleep at night, but I honestly think she still needs the sleep during the day, so it's a catch-22.

I like the 8:30 bedtime, and 9:00 is okay, but I don't want it to be any later than that. Ditto Sherri...always changing!

By Mrsheidi on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 09:34 pm:

Connor likes to play with his lighted aquarium and that usually helps if he still feels awake. Can you get her that lighted stars turtle so she can see stars right before bedtime to help her ease into the idea?

We will probably cross that nap bridge soon though and I'll be asking advice from you!!

By Vicki on Saturday, December 16, 2006 - 09:11 am:

When we did stop the naps, we still had what I called "quiet time" She would pick out a movie or a tape of some kind and lay down on the couch to watch it. That gave me the break I needed and also gave her some down time. I knew she was ready to give up the nap when she NEVER fell asleep watching the movie. I wasn't ready for her to give up naps because I wanted the break too. LOL But I couldn't stand the late night bedtimes anymore. Quiet time gave us both a break and let her recharge her batteries!

By Reds9298 on Wednesday, December 27, 2006 - 09:02 pm:

The last few days or so, we've been going down right after lunch (at 12:30) and she's dropping until I wake her at 2:00. (Not letting her do more than an hour and a half) She's been going right to sleep around 8:30-ish and I'm loving it! I'm hoping that we're onto something. She has seemed TIRED by 8:30 on those earlier nap nights and it's a nice change to say the least. Thanks for the tips and suggestions. Hopefully, we're really onto something to better get into this next phase.

By Mia on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 05:32 pm:

I'm so glad it's working out! Going to bed about 6 hours after the nap always worked for mine. It's so nice when kids reach the age & sleep schedule that gives parents some real free night time! (though it sometimes means an earlier morning! ugh)

I kept my older ones doing naps or quiet time until the summer before full-time kindergarten. That's when I transitioned them into the school schedule. Our kids have to be up at 6:15a for a 7:30a start time, so they go to bed around 7:30p.

Preschool schedule's can mean another adjustment - always changing