GGGRRrrrr... Randy's about pushing me over the edge. I had a conference this week with his teacher and he's doing really well academically and is appropriately social with everyone. Two problems. Sometimes he's TOO social (always has been) AND he's not turning in/doing homework. He brings me his assaingment book every night to sign and tells me he finished. Turns out quite a few times he hadn't (okay, so three problems--lying to me!). Then tells his teacher he forgot the work at home or he'd left it at school the day before so he couldn't do it. The conference was Monday. Today there was no school because of parent/teacher conferences and the next two weeks are fall break. I get an email from his teacher this morning asking if I knew Randy didn't turn in his book report. Not only did I NOT know, I didn't even know he HAD a book report!!! So I make him find it (in his backpack, aka "The Bottomless Pit"), FINISH it (no, it wasn't done, although he'd had it for three weeks!) and then ride his bike up to the school to turn it in (he was NOT happy about that!). I told his teacher (had her call me) to do whatever she wanted with him. Mark him down a grade, not accept it late, whatever. I told her I'd rather he learn those lessons now than when he's in high school and the GPA counts. Okay, so now I'm trying to find appropriate discipline (not punishment--I DO want him to learn, although he'll see it as punishment no matter what). I plan to take his TV out of his room (spends way too much time watching it, especially if he's not finishing his homework!). My mom thinks I should make him do another book report during the break. I have found some printable forms online that we could use. He's a smart kid!!! I know he can do the work. I don't want to say he's lazy, but it sure seems like it! I've asked every teacher since 1st grade if they in their professional opinion think he could be ADD/ADHD because I know it runs in families, and they've ALL said no, he's just social and a goof. So what else do you think I can do? The boy NEEDS to learn responsibility!!! Even Robin would do his homework when he was in public school! He wouldn't try to tell me he'd done it when he hadn't. Like I won't find out. Pu-Leeze! I'm the mom. I know EVERYTHING! lol His teacher and I plan to communicate frequently after the break so I know what's going on and what's due. She said she could write in his assaingment book for him EVERYTHING so he's not forgetting anything, but I told her he really needs the practice writing (his handwriting is terrible!). So she'll probably email me every day or every other day or so. What do you all wise, thoughtful, creative, btdt moms suggest??? When he gets in middle school and high school his teachers won't hold his hand anymore. He's got SO much potential. TIA

By Christylee on Friday, October 7, 2005 - 03:52 pm:

No ideas really, but I do like your mom's idea of another book report. Big hugs and good luck!

By Reds9298 on Friday, October 7, 2005 - 05:05 pm:

Tell me if I missed you doing this already somewhere in your post, but why don't you start personally checking each and every homework assignment each night? Him just saying he did it and you signing the book really doesn't mean much, you know?
I also think he should write his assignments in his book himself, but maybe the teacher could get a class friend to double-check him daily and make sure he's written it all down. If not, then the friend could remind him of what he had forgotten. Having said that, I think you're wanting to promote that showing responsibility will benefit him, right? In that case, take something away (that he REALLY LIKES) when he is irresponsible. You're right that the teachers are going to expect him to be responsible once he's in middle school and that there won't be a teacher-appointed 'class friend' around in the future (if you even did that), so he needs to learn that it's HIS responsibility. Is he in outside activities (not TV), like a sport or something? I was in sports in school and it was ENFORCED that my homework and grades were at a certain level. If I didn't meet that, I wasn't allowed to participate anymore. I knew that and it was always in the back of my mind when I felt like slacking off.

I like what you did by making him do it and take it to the teacher..good for you!
Just suggestions from a teacher, I don't have a child that age yet. It sounds like he's a smart and outgoing guy!

By Mommmie on Friday, October 7, 2005 - 05:15 pm:

I have a 5th grader - ADHD and LD - and his school says they will take care of consequences for missed assignments there at school and for us parents not to punish at home for it. So, he gets homework detentions where they do the missed HW during recess in detention hall.

I admit though, it's hard to watch this responsibility lesson play out! It is working though. My son is better about it.

By Pamt on Friday, October 7, 2005 - 05:47 pm:

We've had that problem with my 3rd grader this year and it has improved finally. First thing, we had DS write a letter to his teacher stating that he was sorry that he didn't do his homework. He had to included in the letter that his lack of follow-through was showing a lack of respect for her. It just about killed him to write that letter and take it to school the next day. He also has a planner, has to write down each assignment, AND has to write down the materials needed to complete the assignment. That was a big part of his problem--he knew he had 2 pages in his English workbook, but would forget to bring the workbook home. My DS is very social and quite bright too, so he is much more interested in playing with and talking to his friends than schoolwork. He also can always do well on tests without studying, so it is a battle. We have also started "clean out your binder and backpack" Fridays. We go through and throw out all of the trash. We have an after school routine where the boys have to give me all papers, permission slips, etc. If I don't get it that night I don't sign it or write a check the next morning. If that means missing a field trip or getting a grade marked down because it's missing my signature, then those are the consequences. They come in from school, put lunch boxes on the counter, give me papers, and hang backpacks up. they get 30 minutes to wind down, have a snack, then homework time until it's finished. Only after homework can they go play with friends.

Our family rule is also that if you get in trouble at school you will be punished again at home.

By Bemerry84 on Friday, October 7, 2005 - 06:07 pm:

Oh goodness, I was hoping that thing would get better for me but now I see it may continue until 5th grade, HELP!! I posted a couple weeks ago about my 2nd grade DS with the same problems. We ended up taking TV watching away completely, even on the weekends and he can earn back 1/2 hour increments as rewards. The computer can only be used for his educational games. This has worked so far, the teacher wrote that he is doing much better. What is it with social/bright kids, can't they figure out it's easier to do what's needed and be done with it. Good Luck Cat and keep us posted, I know I'll benefit from reading the responses.

By Coopaveryben on Friday, October 7, 2005 - 07:31 pm:

We are going through this right now too but with a 2nd grader.

I have been doing some research on this for my own child and Pam is right on the money. Everything I have read says to really establish a routine at home. Give them chores. I used to just grab my sons backpack out of the car for him and his lunch box, now he has to put it on the hook and take his lunch box to the kitchen. I gave him chores and that worked for a while but the problem is I need to keep following up with him. I'm almost positive I am ADD and I'm pretty sure he is so it is something I am really having to make myself work at for his sake.

I can't wait to hear what other advice you get.

By Annie2 on Friday, October 7, 2005 - 08:01 pm:

Pam's routines follow mine to a T. I also do not sign a thing unless I see all completed work.

Cat, I think you need to get Randy more organized at home by following what Pam suggested. Your right that he needs to be held accountable at his age. Helping him set up a routine that he can follow with help immensely.

By Mrsheidi on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 12:13 am:

As a teacher who is excited about parental involvement, I emailed the homework daily. I just set up a parental group through hotmail and it literally took me one minute to type it and send it. I think it's great she wants to be involved like that.
I'm not so sure I would have a friend check to make sure he's got things written down but, like above, stay congruent with the HW and what the teacher assigns and look at every bit of HW he has until you feel you can trust him again.
I would take away everything and have him earn it all back, just to make sure he knows you're serious and above all, it's a VISUAL CUE that shows that something *physically* will happen to his stuff when he messes up.
Lying would be the hardest issue. Not to be taken lightly since it only gets worse in middle school. That's the part that would kill me. Like Pam did, I would have him write a letter to her apologizing for disrespecting her like that. ANd, even one to you. Maybe if you're serious now, you won't have to be in the future.
He sounds like a happy go lucky kid that just needs a *slight* kick in the rear (metaphorically) to make him realize his potential.

By Unschoolmom on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 07:53 am:

I wonder if you could sit down with him when he does his homework? Grab a book and give him some company? Maybe make up a plate of snacks too.

We're not into lessons and homework in our homeschooling but I know some families who are and when they sit down together to do seperate work it they share space, have some snacks, share bits of what they're working on with others. The work isn't isolating or unpleasant, they use it as time together and use each other as resources when they need some help.

I think to me the most important thing I'd want for him is an understanding that work can be made pleasant and that when he's struggling with something or floundering a bit, he can come to me. If I can take care of those, the lying and procrastination should take care of themselves. And you might really enjoy some shared quiet time with your son and a book and an opportunity to talk.

By Luvn29 on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 09:19 am:

My daughter is in fourth grade. I have a son in first grade. When either is doing their work, I am constantly involved because they ask me questions, ask if it's done well, etc. They know that I have to check all of their work before they put it back in their folders. My daughter frequently forgets to give me things, nothing of great importance such as field trip forms or homework, etc., but things like the school newsletter, or the menu. So I always check both backpacks to see if there is anything in there.

I've started these habits from Kindergarten with both, so they know that mom is going to be involved and is going to know if anything isn't finished or left in the backpack. Also, I work at the school now, so they know that I will be in contact with the teacher.

I agree with taking things away for irresponsibility, but I think the problem may be solved for you now, just by your son knowing that mom is now going to be involved in the homework thing, and with his teacher, and he won't be able to get away with things. You'll probably be surprised at what a difference it makes when he finally realizes you are going to check to make sure his homework is done, and he will have to finish what he didn't do, and maybe pay some consequences if he is caught telling you it is finished when it isn't.

I really feel that parental involvement and communication between the teacher and parents are both so important. Since your son is doing well academically and such, you probably won't have to do much more than what you are now doing.

By Cat on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 11:18 am:

Thank you all SO much for the thoughts and advice. Here's my plan of action.

He will be unloading his backpack as SOON as he gets home from school. Usually he just dumps it on the floor and gets to it after dinner. We're close enough to the school that if he forgets something (an excuse he apparently used a lot) he can take his little butt back up there and get it.

I WILL be checking all his work from now on. No more just signing his book. I'll go by what he has written AND what the teacher emails.

He has lost his TV for at least a week or two. That'll hit him where it hurts.

He is in karate, but I don't have to take it away. All I have to do is tell his instructor and he'll take Randy's belt away for a while. That will not only hurt him (it's embarrassing for the kids when the instructor takes belts--and he doesn't do it often) AND it sets an example for the other kids. Our instructor is big into responsibility.

He already looses second recess at school when he doesn't finish homework. His teacher firmly believes in NOT taking away lunch recess. She feels (and I agree) that the kids need some time to blow off steam.

He'll be doing a book report for me during the break. I may even have him take a copy of it to his teacher, along with an apology note. Good idea, Pam.

So we'll see how things go. He has the next two weeks off. I'll have to read through all these posts again to see if I missed anything (in my sleep-deprived state this morning--Robin had two friends spend the night for his birthday party today). Thanx again for all your wisdom.

By Tink on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 11:20 am:

You've gotten great advice. I don't have any new ideas. I just wanted to say that I was having this same problem with my 3rd grade dd this year and re-inforcing our routine (I'd let it slide a bit since she'd always done so well before) and I check her homework against what is assigned every night. I know immediately if something isn't clicking for her and whether she's "forgotten" to do something.

I think the idea of taking away the TV is a great one and I like the idea of earning time with it, maybe 1/2 an hour each day that his homework is completed without hassle? Good luck. I think it's great how on top of this you are, Cat!

By Tink on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 11:21 am:

Oops. We were posting at the same time. Great plan of action, Cat!

By Debbie on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 03:17 pm:

It sounds like you have a great play. I really like Pam's idea of the letter. I would definitely make him write one to his teacher.

I am finding that my oldest is like this. I make him empty his backpack when he gets home. He has a home folder with his assignment sheet, homework and all papers that are for me. We go over it together. He does his homework at the kitchen table while I make dinner, that way I am there to help if he needs me. His teacher also makes us sign off on their homework each night. He is then responsible for putting everything back in his backpack and hanging it on the hook by the door.

I agree with everyone that a good routine really helps. I know my ds is really lost without one.

By Cat on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 06:12 pm:

Cori, Randy hasn't had any problems not turning in work until this year! He's had problems being too social in class (especially last year) but none with being irresponsible. So this is new to us. Hopefully we're nipping this in the bud.

I really do think a strict routine will help him (all of us, really). Like I said; we'll see how it goes.

By Jodes on Saturday, October 8, 2005 - 07:55 pm:

Yes, as with everyone else, I strongly feel routine is sooo important! And you must follow the routine DAILY and Never waiver!!! I bring my kids home from school (I work at their school) and the minute we walk in the door, they have their backpacks opened and out comes the homework and any other school communications papers. Homework is done first, before anything else, then once that is done and looked over by me, then they are able to have a snack and some play time. After dinner immediately, is reading, then showers and bed. We do this every night, sometimes with soccer practice in between, but it's always the same. I have a 5th grader and a 2and grader and we have done it this way since they started school. It works out great, they are both very responsible in school. Good luck, and I think you are on the right path!

By Dawnk777 on Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 12:15 am:

We pick up the 13yo first and have to wait for the high schooler to come out. Emily always hands me her "to sign" things, in the car. I sign them right away and give them back, if I'm in the car. If I'm working, then she gives them to me, when I get home. It's been a good system, so far.

By Conni on Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 01:24 pm:

Cat- just thought I'd throw this out. ;) Brad was always very nice, talkative, social butterfly, silly, kind, great academically, etc...

Last yr in 5th gr he was soooo burned out on elementary school that he showed a little attitude a few times, he missed some assignments here and there, he forgot things a few times, etc... His teacher mentioned several times that this is the yr that alot of them are beginning some changes and also that they were all burnt out. It was pretty bad by the end of 5th gr- my ds that ALWAYS wanted to go to school. Well, I could barely get him out of bed. lol This yr (6th gr and in the middle school now) he is back to being a good student again. I dunno, just thought I'd throw it out there. lol

We really had to stay on top of him last yr.

A few weeks ago he said 'I am glad to be in 6th gr, I was so tired of being treated like a baby at the old school!' ha

Good luck!!

By Cat on Sunday, October 9, 2005 - 02:22 pm:

So far, so good. Randy had a fit last night when I reminded him no tv in his room. I picked out the book for his book report (not that long, about skate boarding, got pics of Tony Hawk in it--something he should really like). He really doesn't want to do it, but I really don't care! lol I'm giving him a week to finish it and told him if he finishes before the end of the week he can have his tv back early.

Conni, their elementary school right now is K-6 so he's got another year after this one. I HOPE he's not burning out! Hopefully they'll pass the bond issue build new schools in time for next year, then the 6th graders will be back in middle school. He's always said he doesn't like school, but he does like going (just to see his friends).

I'll keep you all updated on how it's going.

By Cat on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 12:03 pm:

Update: Randy's about half way through his book for the book report I assainged him and he told me this morning, "Mom, I like this book." Go figure. He'll probably have the book done today or tomorrow. The report may be a different story, though. I'll have to keep on him to finish that. I'll let you know when he's finished it.

By Helpmom40 on Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 01:54 pm:

Boys at this age can be like this... their minds wonder and think of other "fun" things and ways to get out of homework.

My suggestions. Set up a reward system. When he completes something and gets a good grade - PRAISE him and tell him he's doing well. If he does good so many times in a row, give him a reward. Explain to give calmly that school work is important and in life if we do good at our jobs we are rewarded with a pay check and maybe even a better position or a raise. And that telling the truth and doing well in school is important. I'd also tell him that you'd rather hear the truth from him than a lie.

If you just punish him when he does wrong or tell him he's bad a lot - he'll start becoming a sneak and will start lying more to get out of stuff.

Keep in mind that he's in the 5th grade and still a child... this reward system has worked great for me. I use a chart with stars and sad faces. It helps show when they do well and when they can improve. And the child feels good when they're praised for doing well, and I think it makes them want to do the right thing more often.

Good luck.