Sleep Deprived Momma Needs Your Help
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive July-December 2005:
Sleep Deprived Momma Needs Your Help
OK ladies, it's me again. You would think this was my first child with all these questions!
I love the experience and support here so here I go again with another question.
The longest period of sleep I have had in the last 3 weeks is 3 hours. Yup, 3 hours and that's only because I gave the baby to DH last night and said "Good Luck" and went back to my own bed.
Some people have suggested that he has his days and nights mixed up and some have said growth spurt, but I don't think it's either of these two things.
He seems to prefer to sleep sitting up. Right now he is sleeping nicely in the swing. During the day he either sleeps in a bouncy seat or his car seat but always only semi-reclined never flat on his back. He will sleep up to 4 hours during the day.
At night he sleeps with me. He wakes up at about 11 and I nurse him for 5 minutes and he falls asleep, he wakes up and wants to nurse again, but not always sometimes he just grunts for what seems like forever and then cries. I put him on the breast, he will nurse and fall asleep again. at Midnight he wakes again and we start all over. We do this every hour on the hour until I just can't take it anymore. If I don't nurse him he will cry and cry and cry.
Last night he slept in DH's arms, this morning he slept face down on my chest. He seems to prefer his stomach or his side and wants to be held.
There are times when his little face scrunchs up and turns red, then the brings his legs up and his arms in and he cries like he's in pain. I'm thinking gas. I bought some gas drops today, we'll see how this works. I'm also thinking it might be gas because he prefers sleeping sitting up. He is hard to burp but when he does it's a big one. He is not spitting up.
Not sure what the symptoms of reflux are but maybe someone can fill me in.
Tonight I will bring the bouncy seat to bed with me and see how that works. I so need to sleep, I just don't know what to do anymore, I no longer think this is a breastfeeding issue as this one nurses like a trooper during the day and has gained tons of weight, he's over 9 lbs already.
What do you think?
Sounds like a pretty typical newborn to me. Most newborn eat every 2-3 hours. I know the longest I got to sleep was 3-4 hours max for those first several weeks. You might be able to go a little longer at night is he is sleeping in a bassinet or crib. he can smell you and will therefore want to murse more often either "because it's there" or seeking comfort rather than food. In his own bed he may grunt and root a little and settle back down more quickly. I know that both of my boys slept through thr night (6-8 hrs) for the first time the night I moved them out of the bassinet in our room and into the crib in theirs. We both didn't wake each other up with every little noise.
Sounds like gas, not reflux. With reflux you'd be getting A LOT fo spit up!
H emay prefer to sleep sitting up--my first did too--but you are setting a precedent that may be very hard to break. If you start letting him sleep in his car seat or bouncy seat, just realize that at some point he'll have to transition to a bed and the older he gets the harder it will be.
Sorry to say, but he sounds pretty typical to me!  Hang in there a little while longer. At 6-8 weeks they seem to be much more likely to settle into a routine and start sleeping in longer stretches.
Oh my...forgive the typos:
is/if
murse/nurse
fo/or
You get the picture---sounds like I'm sleep deprived too!
My first was just like that. I was determined that he would sleep in the crib, he was waking up every 15 minutes or so. I let it go a few nights and then put him in my bed and threw my husband out. We all needed some rest. He slept MUCH better, although he still woke up ever few hours I didn't feel so tired because I was not getting up and going to his room or sitting up and messing with him in the bassinet. He also slept wonderful in the swing, one time he was sick and the doctor said he needed to be elevated all night, we left him sleep in the swing by our bed and he slept great. However, I kept worrying about him in the swing and I didn't sleep too great. I can't imagine that would be too safe, but I did let him sleep in the vibrating seat a lot when he was a new born, it helped.
Best of luck, I at least had it a little easier because he was my first and I could sleep with him. Just try out some things and see what works for him.
Oh, sweetie...I remember VIVIDLY just yelling at my DH, "I NEED SLEEP!!" It was SO difficult.
The following worked for us, but my best advice is to "try" to get a nap when both of your little ones are asleep.
After 3 weeks, I stayed in the nursery during the week (we had a single bed) and then on Fridays and Saturday nights, DH slept in there and got up every 3 hours with my pumped milk. That way, he got sleep during the week and I got 2 days of sleep on the weekends. It was WONDERFUL!!!!
Connor also slept in the upright position for the first few weeks, in his swing. I felt so guilty and I was SO afraid he would fall out. But, he ended up sleeping just fine and eventually, at 4 months, starting sleeping longer (5 hours) in the night.
Try to get some naps on the weekends while DH is home too. It must be hard to nurse that often, but pumping may help.
That's why, when my girlfriend tells me the newborn stage is her favorite stage, I think she is nuts! LOL! I was so sleep deprived, in the beginning, with both of my kids. I hated it!
Fortunately, Sarah (now 16), slept through the night at 8 weeks ( and really did sleep through the night, from then on) and Emily (13) slept through the night, on some nights starting about 3 months, and probably everynight, by about 4 months. (It's hard to remember now). For a short while, I was up every night, one night with Sarah, the next night with Emily. I swear they had a conspiracy going, not to let mom sleep.
I remember those times oh so well, too! It's tough and I can't imagine having another one to care for, too, so I feel for you dear! Natalie had many nights during those first couple of months where we would get her to sleep in her swing or bouncy, then transfer her to her bed. She was a formula baby and I was up every 3 hrs. feeding her, too, although she always went right back to sleep after feedings. Her initial *going* to sleep for the night was the worst time for her.
I know you're b/f, but the worst time for us was when she wasn't tolerating her formula (Similac) and then she WOULD NOT sleep in any other position but upright. She had a lot of gas then. We used a slanted pad in her crib which seemed to help, but she did often slide off of it. There were nights though when I just slept in her room (we had single bed in there, too) and she slept in her bouncy on vibrate because I HAD to get some sleep! I tried to space these times out and not make them regular because we were always afraid of what Pamt said about getting her too accustomed to the upright and not wanting to sleep any other way. She could have slept on Daddy all night if we had let her. Once we switched formula though she improved a lot, so maybe it is gas?? The gas drops helped for us, although I hear people who say they don't.
It will pass before you know it, but I've BTDT and it is sooo tough when you're going through it.
Just to toss in about Reflux - spitting up is only one symptom. Some babies like mine, have silent reflux, where they just swallow what comes up. Does he cough a lot? Does he stop nursing then want to go back to it right away?
I agree it sounds like gas, though. Have you tried the generic simethicone drops? Very safe.
Ame
Ame,
Sometimes he latches on sucks, cries comes off the breast and goes right back on. This is why I thought reflux. He coughs sometimes, but I thought it was because he was getting too much milk at once. I have to take Matt to the Doctor this week for his booster, so I'll see what he says. I just don't know, he nurses well during the day, it's just a night time. Whether he sleeps with me or not he wakes every hour.
My MIL stayed up with the babe until midnight last night. I slept from 7-12, nursed and then the baby slept until 3 am. Then from 4-7 am he was up every hour again. Much better than my usual 40 mins. of sleep. We can't do this every night though. Perhaps tonight I'll try the swing.
Mine was every two hours night and day until she was at least 5 months old! I guess I just kinda got used to no sleep...of course i did not have another one to care for! Nap when you can! It will get better!
You said he can sleep for as much as 4 hours a day. You ARE immediately lying down in the same room and taking a long nap, right?
Heaventree,
That's exactly what Helen did, and only at night. She had a nasty barking cough that sounded like croup and would cough a little while after eating.
Once she was put on a combination of Zantac (needed the upper end of the dosage eventually) and Gaviscon (right after or during a feed) she was like a different baby.
Try keeping him upright when you feed, although that may be hard when nursing ... and hold him upright for about 15 minutes before you put him down to sleep again.
If the doc determines it may be reflux, then Gaviscon after a feed is great (my pediactric gastro swears by it) it sits on top of the stomach contents so when Reflux happens, the acid that comes up is already neutralized.
Sometimes it will take a little while for them to start sleeping because they are so used to waking up in pain. Reflux babies are notoriously light sleepers ...
Also, he could be on a snacking schedule at night and a more filling mea schedule during the day.
At about four weeks, I would feed Helen her 11:00 feed and then wait when she woke at 1:30 or 2 and see if she didn't just put herself back to sleep. If she fussed too long, or cried too hard, I picked her up and fed her. At six weeks she was sleping from 8 to 8 - which was amazing. Of course at 6 months she started waking in the night again. Growth spurt and an outgrown dosage of Zantac to blame. We had to put her on zantac 3 times a day and then she was fine. Now she gets a small amount only at night.
This is the hardest time, especially when you have another little one. Can you put a video on in the afternoon, snuggle with him on the couch and maybe catch a little sleep?
I wish you some time for some sweet dreams .
Ame
Ame,
Another question. He doesn't seem to have the kind of cough you are talking about but he sounds congested or gurgly during or after feeding, like he has mucus in his nasal passage or throat. I will try nursing him using the football hold, this way I can elevate his head and upper body a bit. Thanks for all the info, Matt is getting his 18 month booster tomorrow will talk to the doc.
Unschoolmom, I have an 18 month old so naps are rare. Only if I can get them to sleep at the same time, however, this is my time to eat and shower so sometimes I nap and sometimes I eat. Know what I mean. Breastfeeding is hard work and I'm always full of sweat and milk so showers are almost as important to me as naps are. I caught a few winks this morning.
Heaventree, my oldest did the suck, cry, unlatch, cough thing. Since he was my first and I was a novice at breastfeeding it took me a few weeks to realize that my letdown was too strong. I realized when he'd unlatch that my milk was spraying him in the face. If he continued nursing he'd get choked b/c it was coming out so powerfully that he couldn't swallow it quickly enough. You might want to check and see if that's the problem. What I started doing was letting him nurse, pull him off the breast when I felt the letdown coming and hold a cloth diaper over my breast for a few seconds to catch most of the powerful milk flow, then I'd put him back on the breast. Problem solved. It usually wasn't an issue on the 2nd breast since I'd had letdown when the first breast did. Maybe that's part of what's going on with you guys---a really powerful letdown and lots of milk.
If I had a letdown without baby at the breast the milk could literally shoot about 6 feet across the room. DH and I measured--LOL.
Ame is right, reflux can be silent. Kayla would make a gulping sound, I called it erping. She hardly ever threw up she always swallowed it back down. They even had to do a special test to make sure that's what it was. They gave Kayla meds for it also and she also always preferred an inclined position.
I hope you find out what it is soon. Its so hard to function with a fussy baby and no sleep!
Pam, I remember that, too! I would have to take Sarah off and hold a nursing pad over my breast, until that flow slowed down a little. It would spray across the bed! LOL!
Yes! I remember saying to the doc she always sounds like she has a post nasal drip or junk in her throat. He said it was one of the symptoms. There is an increase in mucus production as a result of the irritated throat. Also, they're trying to get the acid out of their throats.
Ame
Pam, my let down is fairly strong, but not like yours LOL! My neighbour is like you she had to hold her hand over her breast and then put the baby on otherwise the child would be covered in milk.
The football hold works well for a strong let down as the baby has more control, it's too bad that Cameron gets mad everytime I try it.
I so hope it's not reflux and I hope you're right about things settling down in the next few weeks. I only wish I could get 2 hours sleep in a row.
I tried him in the swing today and it's not going to work. I have a head insert but I'm afraid he will turn his head into it and not be able to have proper air circulation, without the head rest he sinks to the bottom of the swing.
I don't understand why he will not sleep in his bassinette, I can't leave him cry as it wakes the whole house and it breaks my heart  .
I finally had to let Helen sleep on her belly - this was before the Reflux was diagnosed. I was soooo tired. I'd been feeding her and holding her for hours. Every time I tried to put her down in the Snuggle Nest in my bed on her side she would stay for a moment then scream a few minutes later. Somehwere in my sleep clouded brain I mad the connection between her sleeping on her tummy on my chest but not on her side in the Snuggle Nest. I put her on her tummy and she stayed comfortably. I was okay with it because she had great head and neck control and I could keep my hand on her the whole night .
Hope you get it all worked out so you can get some sleep.
Ame
My little boy just turned five months today, and I will tell you he is finally able to sleep in his bassinette. I was getting no sleep up until then, and I have a 2 year old who NEVER naps. My husband could not stay up with the baby because he's been in transition from wrapping things up at one job and starting another. And let me tell you, I used the baby swing so much to get the baby to sleep that we have replaced the batteries so many times. It's the only thing that helped. He also has reflux, so sleeping on his tummy was best for him. Thank goodness that he, too, had good head control. But I would just say do what you can to get him to sleep. Use the bouncy seat or swing or whatever it takes. One mom told me that she used to take a shirt she had worn for a couple of days and put it in the crib with the baby. She explained that the shirt would have Mommy's smell and the baby might be comforted by that. I tried it with my first, but I can't remember if it worked. It may work for you. My husband's Aunt used to massage her babies.It would calm them for sleep time. I would suggest massaging with lavender scented lotion. She claims it worked well, even as young as two weeks. Music may also work, something calming. I found that running water helped soothe my first boy. Thank goodness that we had one of those nature CDs.
I hope these suggestions help.
My ds has reflux. It wasn't diagnosed until last year at the age of 4. He did not spit up, so I never even thought reflux. He would not sleep well in the evenings or at night(reflux is worse at this time). He would start to take a bottle and then pull away and cry. His feedings were usually a nightmare. His doctors said he was lactose intolerant. We now know that isn't true. As far as sleeping, there was no way I could get him to sleep in a bassinet or bed. I finally just put his bouncy seat next to my bed and let him sleep in that. He liked the vibration and he was sitting up instead of flat on his back, so he would at least sleep for a few hours at a time. He started rolling over at 3 months and from then on he would sleep on his stomach. He would roll over the minute I put him in his bed. He did sleep better once he started sleeping on his stomach. But, I hate to say, that he didn't consistantly sleep through the night until he was about a year old.
It could be nothing, but I would keep my eye out for reflux and talk with your pediatrician about it at your next visit.
I hope you got some sleep last night. There is nothing worse than being sleep deprived for a long period of time. Do whatever you have to do to get some sleep.
My DD had GERD (reflux) and didn't necessarily spit up a lot. Like others have mentioned, she would burp and then SCREAM. She had heartburn from swallowing the spit up. Eww! Zantac made a huge difference.
More info:
GERD symptoms
Because of GERD I was told to make sure that I either inclined the mattress so that dks( both had it) were not flat on their or let them sleep in the carrier. I was told to keep them at a 45 degree angle for 15 minutes after each feeding as well. I also had them sleep on their side not back.
Were you able to talk to the doc, today? Hope all went well.
Ame
Ame,
Doctor thinks it's just caulik (sp???) sorry for the spelling I'm really tired.
I'm almost inclined to believe him as Cameron seems to be a little worse today. He wants to be held all the time and cries when we put him down. He seems really gasy and fusses a lot. He pulls his legs in or pushes them out. His little face gets red and then he toots . I just nursed him for an hour straight, I just can't do it anymore, I start to get edgy after an hour.
Tonight my MIL will give Cameron his 9 pm feeding, I'm going to bed hopefully he'll sleep until midnight, then I'll do the 3 am and if it's like last night every hour after that, but I'll bring the swing with me tonight.
I get the impression that the doctor feels that GERD/reflux is hard to diagnosis in an infant so young and wants to play the wait and see game. He said not much we can do until 3 months. I'll give it another few weeks and if things have not improved, I'll take Cameron with me for my 6 week check-up.
Send me some fairy dust for sweet dreams and a good nights sleep.
Trina, thanks for the link to the symptons really helped me today at the doctors.
Okay, well let me just pipe in a little here Nursing for an hour isn't doing either of you any good. it is fine to stop. One of the hardest things with breast feeding is figuring out how to soothe them without your breast! They want it and it is easy. When babies have sore tummies they want to eat, mostly because they can't tell the difference. One of the things that helped my dd was to sit with my legs proped up, knees bent (i did this on the recliner) and then lay her there and use her legs to "run" this really makes the tummy feel better, kind of walking out the gas. Have you tried a paci at all? Maybe this will help with some of the sucking need and give yall a bit of a break.
As far as sleeping, my dd didn't sleep well for awhile also, we found out it was a symptom of her not having enough calories. Long story, but as it was explained to me that she just wasn't doing it right to get enough of the hind milk, so her reaction was to get some milk, calories and then conserve and sleep, but only in short periods of time. What helped her best was giving her formula. What I know now that I didn't know then is, one bottle of formula doesn't mean you have to quit breast feeding. You could supplement with one bottle a day for a couple of weeks and then go back to all breast feeding. You will know if the formula works within a day, it was amazing the difference in my dd. I would recomend using the carnation good start though, it is a little easier on their systems.
Second, sleeping in the bassinet, we had a cradle that my kids had the hardest time sleeping in. What I finally figured out was, first it was too big for them. I finally put a box at one end and somehow that made it better (reminds me of kenneling a dog). The other thing was the warmth. I finally put a heating pad in the cradle during while I was feeding. So for a good 10-15 minutes, probably even 30 I warmed that bed up. Then I removed the pad and laid the baby down. It worked like a charm! All my little ones were belly sleepers, we gave in pretty early to that, and 2 of the 3 still sleep on their bellies.
I'm glad that you saw the doc. Actually, Helen was diagnosed at two weeks and Randy at two months, both before the three month mark. They were put on Zantac and Gaviscon and as I said - like night and day! It really is a differential diagnosis in the little ones, unless you have all the testing done. You have colic symptoms, you try reflux meds, if they work then it's reflux and not colic.
Every doc is different, though and you need a doc that works with your philosophy. My doc is more inclined to try the meds to see if they help rather than waiting and letting the baby remain uncomfortable.
Definately follow up, though.
Hope you do get some sleep tonight and that your little one feels better, soon!
Ame
Kaye,
You have made some very good points - no more one hour nursing sessions. I have a sling which I'm having a hard time getting comfortable with but will try a little harder with that.
I too thought of the the heating pad, my MIL is here and has one, I will try tonight. As for the pacifier he is not interested - I have tried. Matt never liked it either.
I'm not sure about the formula, he is gaining weight like gangbusters and I usually try and nurse off of one side each session so he is getting the hind milk. He's 4 weeks and was 7 lbs 15 oz at birth, he's now over 10 lbs. If anything he's getting too much milk as my answer to fussiness is nursing.
Last night was much better, he slept from 8 pm until 11, then from 11:30 to 4 am so we gained about 2 hours there. Then he slept from 5-7 am in his swing another 2 hours, this schedule is more than manageable.
I am starting to believe that it's a combination of colic and him not knowing how to get himself to sleep yet. This morning he had 4 BM's right in a row, two of them all over me while I was changing his diaper, then he peed on me twice, oh this is such a glamours job! I just got him changed and clean up and he pooped again. So I think he really did have an upset tummy and probably ate too much yesterday.
Thanks everyone for all your help and support it has gotten me through these last few difficult days. Everyday it gets a little easier, soon I'll be sad cause my little baby is all grown up and I'll want another .
Breastfed babies poop a lot, especially when you are just about to get that clean diaper underneath them! LOL! 11:30pm to 4am is a good chunk of sleep for him, and you. I remember wondering if I should even bother falling asleep, when my kids were newborns, since I didn't know how soon I was going to have to wake up again. I usually did end up falling asleep, though, since I was so tired.
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