I need some help/ideas on how to deal with my teenager. Dh and I are prone to wanting to control things and we have both admitted to this and see that we need to let go in that area and let our dd make mistakes on her own and suffer the consequences of those mistakes. The biggest thing going on right now would be her grades...we beg/push/plead/bribe her to her homewook----she fights us all the way. So after talking to the school conselor we decided we would step back and not beg/push/plead/bribe her about her homework. She thinks this is great because now she can sit on the computer and the phone from 3:30 (when she gets home from school) until 11:30 when she goes to bed. IS THIS REALLY HOW THIS IS SUPPOSED TO WORK?????? I can not emphasise enough how difficult this has been for me tongight to not tell her to get off the phone/computer and get her homework done. I have not done that BUT when she had been on the phone for nearly 3 straight hours and it was time to eat and the phone rang I told her friend we were eating dinner and she would have to talk to her later. So we eat dinner and I gave all my kids "jobs" -- doing the dishes, sweeping the kitchen floor and let them know that we are not doing computer/phone/tv until we have all finished our jobs. The phone rings AGAIN and dd answers it after I had just said we were not going to talk on the phone. I tell her in my nice voice H- we have things to do now you will have to talk another time. She says OK and walks out of the room to continue her conversaion. I wait a few minutes and by few I mean close to 5 and say to her again...we have work to do you need to get off the phone. Again, I get the OK and she turns her back and continues her conversaion. I am not a patient person, it is one of my flaws and i acknowledge it, so I get on the other line and say over the phone H - we have work to do you need to finish your call now . She tries the Ok again and tells me to hang up the phone. Again I ask IS THIS REALLY HOW THIS IS SUPPOSED TO WORK???? Am I really supposed to back off and ler her make all her own decisions because 3 years from now she will in college (that is if she graduates from high school)and will have to make them on her own. I just don't think I can do this. We can set down rules for things such as phone/computer use, chores around the house and she will pick a fight with everyone in the house so that she can get sent to her room to get out of it. I don't think I can take this for 3 more years. If it realy works to change how I approach her I would do it but all i see happening is that she gets everything she wants and I am irritated like i have never been irritated before. HELP ME PLEASE!!!!!

By Yjja123 on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 10:28 pm:

You need to be in charge, not her.
You say no phone, that means no phone. If that means taking it out of her hand and hanging it up--so be it.
If she doesn't do her chores then I would take away the TV, computer, Ipod, etc.
Fine, do not nag her about homework BUT make it clear what the consequences are if she gets failing grades.
You do not have to be "controling" to guide your child in the right direction. I believe you need to be firm in what is expected.
If you send her to her room it needs to be a room without phone, tv, computer, etc.
I have yanked all electronics out of my teenagers room to make myself clear. Funny, I have NEVER had to do that again. Once was enough to make it clear that those things are privileges for working hard at school, home, etc.
(((hugs)))

By Dawnk777 on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 11:10 pm:

I don't have these issues, because Emily does her homework, by herself, although, then she complains that she has no time to knit, or do the fun stuff.

The phone isn't an issue, since she hates talking on the phone, unless she absolutely has to. Friends don't usually call to talk to her, either.

Even on the days I work until 8pm, she has a good handle on homework already. Sarah was the same way.

Good luck. I'm sure my mom would have ripped the phone out of my hand and hung it up for me, if I didn't get off the phone right away.

By Marcia on Tuesday, September 30, 2008 - 11:15 pm:

I've done the same as Yvonne. My 15 year old dd truly does her very best to make me nuts on a daily basis! A few weeks ago she lost all of her electronics from her room, and lost them for a week. She wasn't thrilled, but she knew she had pushed too far, and didn't fight it. While she has still been trying me, it's been nothing like it was then.
I agree that nagging her about her homework is only going to be harder on you, because she will rebel. You can't force her to pick up a pen and write, but you sure can take away all of her privileges.

By Vicki on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 06:31 am:

I think there is a really big difference between backing off and letting go completely. If you want her to suffer natural consequences, than you have to set them up and have them ready to go into motion. What were her consequences for the way she acted last night?

How I would have handled last night with the phone..... She would have been told once that she needed to get off the phone until her things were done. After that, things would have started being taken away from her until she was off. I would have waited a few minutes after telling her and then went and found her ipod, waited another few minutes and found the cell phone etc etc etc. I don't want anyone to think I am like this on a daily basis with my dd... LOL But you are in the beginning stages of laying down what is expected of her and you have to be on it 100% of the time.

By Happynerdmom on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 07:58 am:

Ditto Vicki. Yes, you do need to allow her some control and then suffer the natural consequences of her decisions, but that doesn't mean "no" consequences. For example, in my house, the natural consequence for disobeying by not getting off the phone would have been loss of phone privileges. The natural consequence for continued disrespect and disregard for the rules, would be that I no longer feel like paying for your phone at all.

I would sit her down and clearly spell out the rules and what the consequences will be. (I'm sure not for the first time, LOL!) Then, by disobeying the rules, she is choosing the consequences. Good luck. It sounds like you are trying hard to do the right thing, and are very frustrated. Don't give up!! (((Hugs)))

By Debbie on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 09:04 am:

Ditto everyone else. There is a big difference between natural consequences, and being disobedient/disrespectful.

As far as school, I would not nag, push, etc. But, she should know what the consequences will be if she does not bring home good grades. If my boys decided not to study or do homework, then they better bring home staight A's. Anything else, and there would be priviledges taken away.

When she is disrespectful and disobedient, there needs to be consequences. I would also have taken away phone priviledges after the incident you described. Also, it sounds like you may need to set limits on computer time, and phoen time. Just because she chooses not to study, doesn't necessarily mean she can sit on the phone or computer all night.

I think you and your dh need to sit down and come up with some "house rules" and then you need to sit down with her. She should know the rules, and the consequences of breaking them.

Good luck. I hope things get better for you real soon!

By Jackie on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 11:24 am:

I am totally relate to some of this. I agree what everybody has said. For us, if my teenager didn't want to do his homework, or study for a test, and was getting bad grades...Well.. I would have taken away, the computer, his cell phone and his tv. I would tell him, you don't want to do your homework and study, then all the fun stuff goes away.
I can say without hesitation, if he didn't want to do homework, I certainly wouldnt allow him to talk on the phone and have social time.

I agree there needs to be a middle ground of not pushing, begging, pleading to do things, yet, we can't let them do everything they want either.I know it is hard to find that middle ground.

By Tayjar on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 12:27 pm:

I agree with Yvonne. Not nagging about her about her grades is one thing. But allowing her to be in control and basically play all evening is another. that's not teaching her anything. Take everything away from her and let her know the rules. If she doesn't want to homework, fine. But she's not going to talk on the phone, watch tv, go to any outside activites, listen to her ipod, etc. She can read a book, do chores, or sit and pout.

Remember, one day she will be on her own in the workplace. If she doesn't learn now how to play by the rules, she won't be a success later on in life.

By Mommyof5 on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 01:20 pm:

I am reading Parenting Teens with Love & Logic as recommended by the school counselor. So my question for all of you is...if I don't nag about her homework/studying and let her figure it out on her own do I let the bad grades be consequence enough or do we impose other consequences as well? Honestly, she really doesn't care if she failes or has less than a C average it really has no affect on her at all. It irritates me that she does not have do the work but gets all the benes from school ie. dances, going to ball games plays etc. Can I impose some consequences on low grades? I really would like to see everything above a B but the L & L book says that C is average. She can probably pull a C in everything without even opening the book and she will likely do so if given the choice. So, do I just let go of the dream that she will work up to per potential and start focusing on the other issues we have going on like not wanting to follow the rules and thinking she doesn't have to help around the house if she doesn't want to???? HELP I NEED MORE HELP!!!

By Marcia on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 02:09 pm:

Does she know what she wants to do after highschool? My 15 year old has suddenly shown a real interest in college, and has been reading up to see what she needs to get in. It's changing the way she approaches her homework, for sure. Maybe you could discuss that with her.

By Kaye on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 03:08 pm:

I think natural consequences are mostly grades. However, if that isn't a consequence for your daughter, then yes you need other "natural consequences". That does not mean nag, bargin or bribe though. My dd is a similar kid to yours, we had a tough summer (she is 14). Thankfully we didn't have grades to deal with too. But we had a family meeting with all the kids and made some decisions. First was phone rules. No one can talk on the phone for more than an hour. Me included. That is a terrible waste of time. If I need to chat, I should go visit in person! The phone is not to be used during the dinner hour, from 5:30-6:30. By no one. It is hard not to answer the phone. We have caller id, so at least we know who it is. Sometimes I will answer, and check that all is okay and that I will have to call back later. Also no phone after 9 pm with a boy, or after 10 with a friend. We had to remove phones from upstairs to enforce that.

I strongly believe in a no pass no play rule. If you do not pass, then you will have no extracurricular activities. So no, no dances, no football games etc.

I think it is way past time to sit down with your daughter and explain to her the difference between rights and needs in her home and priviledges. And if it really has gotten so out of control, I would really consider "showing" her. A week of nothing but necessities might go a long way. But it would be a long week.

You are still the parent. If you can't control her now, it won't get better. I don't mean control her grades, control her friends. But she HAS to listen to you, she HAS to respect you.

By Tarable on Wednesday, October 1, 2008 - 04:18 pm:

I totally agree with Kaye.. You should think about doing a "no pass no play" rule like i do.. that means if you don't pass then you don't "play" (play can be anything like going to a game or dance or out with friends and playing on the computer depending on what is a motivation to her) until the next progress report or report card comes out and they are passing again. I have one dd who is not in any extra stuff so she has no "reason" to make good grades. I figure that if they wanted to play sports or band or anything like that then they have to pass so why not have to pass to be able to do whatever it is she likes..

I have recently put time limits on computer/phone time with my dd who was doing similar to yours with being on the phone or computer all afternoon/evening.. She doesn't like it but she has made a deal with me.. The computer can only be on a total of 1.5 hrs a night (homework not included) so she splits it into 3 to 6, 15 to 30 min increments ( I know it sounds like a lot but compared to the 5 or more hours it was before this is a HUGE step and this is only on week days). Phone time is anytime after school to before dinner then after dinner until 9.. No one calls after 9 and talks to her unless it is a homework emergency that has to be pre-approved by me talking to the other kid and sometimes when they don't prove it to me their parents. But my dd doesn't talk on the phone most of the time it is texting and on the computer and texting does apply to the phone rules.. her cell gets plugged in at 9 and is downstairs where she can't be tempted by it.

By Mommyof5 on Thursday, October 2, 2008 - 09:11 am:

Dh and I sat down yesterday and wrote out the "house" rules. Basically we said we expect a C grade---if C is average and she is of average intelligence then it is reasonable to expect a C as a minimum. If she falls below that C then she does not get to attend school events---football games, plays, dances etc. We also limit the phone/computer time to 1 hour a day during the week. We expect her to be respectful and if she isn't then she loses her computer/phone time. Right out of the gate she was telling me how stupid these rules were and arguing and interrupting me. I told her if you do that one more time you lose a day of phone/computer. So naturally....she did interrupt and she lost a day. She then began to argue that she hadn't done anything and didn't deserve to lose her time....that was then 2 days. At 2 days lost she stopped. She did try to follow me around to see if I would do something that could start another argument with her but instead I told you that she had to find something to do to occupy her time other than following me around. She went to her room. Later on she was somewhat nice and pleasant to us and then this morning we reminded her that she had lost 2 days of phone/computer because she was making plans for it already and she got very snippy again. I think she thought that if she played nice the rest of last night and this morning that we would forget about the lost time. After school will probably be a lot of begging and then back talk from her when I remind her that we really did mean it when we said she lost her phone/computer time. I am going to try very hard to stick to this...we have been push overs in the past---that is why we are in the position we are in right now. Wish me luck!!!

By Happynerdmom on Thursday, October 2, 2008 - 09:33 am:

Good luck!! And great job. It's so hard, isn't it? I hate having to be the bad guy. When she sees you are serious about it, I have a feeling things will begin to get better. Maybe you could also have it where she can earn more time, if she starts shaping up. Again, good luck!! This afternoon will be key; stand your ground. Go, girl!

By Tarable on Thursday, October 2, 2008 - 10:28 am:

I know it sounds funny.. but I also give extra time sometimes for doing extra chores or really good grades.. but not a total increase for an A on a report card. I do things like if you make an A on your algebra test then you can have 2 hours extra over the next week, and not all in one night. Algebra seems to be hard for my dd so i know that an A is asking a lot, but she really tries when she wants more time.

Good luck and I know how hard it is to stand your ground.. Today really is the key!!!

By Debbie on Thursday, October 2, 2008 - 01:49 pm:

Good for you!! I am sure it is going to be really difficult until she realizes you mean business!

I also like giving some extra time for good behavior!

By Kaye on Thursday, October 2, 2008 - 03:12 pm:

Good job. It is hard being the heavy.

I will also add, make sure you recognize and praise her for making the right choice. Like when she comes home tonight and doesn't beg (okay....well you can dream), just make sure to day. I noticed and I was pleased with your behavior tonight. I don't think that means you have to give in. But I think we forget even teenagers need to hear how much we care.

Sounds like you handled it very well.

By Ginny~moderator on Thursday, October 2, 2008 - 06:59 pm:

Good for you, Tammy. Yes, it is hard. And yes, I agree with most of the advice above. You are the parents, you make the rules. She gets a place to live, food, clothes, transportation, medical care, and most of all love, at no charge EXCEPT for behavioral expectations. Stick to your guns. And I agree with Kaye - notice and comment approvingly about good behavior.

You very much did the right thing by not arguing with her and just putting it out there - if you keep this up, this is what will happen, and it happened. The thing about arguing with your kids is that it brings you to their level, as if you were peers, and you are not. You are the parents, they are the dependant children, and you are definitely not their peers, their buddies, or even their friends. That doesn't mean you can't be friendly, but you are not a friend, you are a mom.

I was a mean mom, with strict behavioral expectations. People in my house lost privileges, spent time in their rooms with no amusements, and got grounded. (By the way, I firmly believe that kids should not have phones, TVs or computers in their bedrooms - all of that should be where parents can keep an eye or ear on what is going on - and that goes for cell phones too.)

I remember when my middle son got grounded because he was suspended for a day for smoking on school grounds - and was grounded for a month. There was an important Sunday School "formal" dinner (complete with borrowed tuxedos) in the middle of that time, and he was allowed to go to that dinner by earning the privilege - by washing all of the windows in the house inside and out. Another time my youngest got a traffic citation because he and his buddies were riding their bikes down the middle of a downtown street, blowing whistles and blocking traffic. I called on my local state legislator because I had done a lot of volunteer work for him and he got one of his staff to come to the court with us. My son got off, but the judge told us what the fine would have been. He got only half of his allowance for a couple of months, until that amount was reached, and what I took from his allowance went to the church - and he was grounded on weekends until the "fine" was paid off.

I can tell you that my sons fought me on my behavioral expectations - a lot. None of the other kids, none of the other moms, all of the other kids, why do I have to and he doesn't, why does he get allowed and I don't, and, of course, the ever present IT'S NOT FAIR and I HATE YOU. But, all three of them, after each had been living independently for a year or two, came back and told me that (a) they had learned that I was right, and (b) because of my behavioral expectations and training they were able to get along at their jobs and in the world much better than many of their friends who had not had mean mothers.

Hang in there. This too shall pass.

By Mommyof5 on Thursday, October 2, 2008 - 11:03 pm:

I purposely planned to run all my errands today after I picked the kids up from school. I picked them up at 3:00 and we did not get back to the house until 5:45. DD had cheer class at 6:00 so I knew that the later our chores went the less likely it would be that I would have to deal with the begging and potential anger before cheer class and the time her dad got home. She did run in the house and run to the computer while the other kids and I were unloading the car. I reminded her that she did not have computer privledges today and she said fine the internet isn't working anyway. That would be because I took the cords that connect the router to the computer and hid them in my room before school got out. She has always been sneaky and I did not feel like spending my afternoon/evening patrolling where she was and if she had somehow managed to get on the computer or phone without my knowledge. She hasn't been terrilby crabby but she did ask her dad for her cell phone back. He just looked at her for a long time and asked her what made her think that is she wasn't able to the home phone that she would be able to use her cell phone. She has not opened a book since Monday so her grades will really be suffering but I am using the Love and Logic and that is not my problem it is hers. Honestly, it feels so good to not be burdended by her grades and lack of motivation to study. We have let her know that if she doesn't get a least C's she doesn't get to go do things. If she fails classes we will not pay the $300/class for summer school to keep her on track with the rest of her classmates. We will now start to work more on her doing her fair share around the house. Yesterday and today she acted as if she was on vacation without a care in the world....that will change.

By Yjja123 on Friday, October 3, 2008 - 11:02 pm:

I am probably a mean mom. My kids are expected to get at least B's, preferably A's.
If they fell behind in grades, the extras (dance, baseball, etc) would be pulled along with the computer, TV, etc.
If my child struggled with a subject, and despite working hard earned a C, I might not be upset. I wouldn't accept C's as average. I think kids should have high expectations, to encourage them to work hard and do their best.
It still seems like you are allowing her to make all the decisions.

By Dana on Saturday, October 4, 2008 - 08:57 am:

It's tough isn't it? My biggest problem is myself. I will be busy tending to something and not ever realize that DD is back on the computer until she has been there for 15-20 min already. I need to be on her back watching to make sure she abides by the rules.

And worse yet, I forget that I took a certain privilege away the following day. And she counts on that happening. I try to keep my focus, but I am so one tracked in EVERYTHING in my life it is awful. My husband doesn't like that about me either. Once I move on to thinking about something else, whatever was on my mind is gone. This makes a great playground for my daughter!

Just last night, my daughter caught me forgetting. Yesterday, I told DS (age 3) that from now on he will eat what we eat or eat nothing at all. I did this before for 7 days, and instead of him getting hungry and eating, he stopped eating altogether regardless of meal or liking the items. But I need to give it a try again. So last night, I am getting ready to make a PBJ for DS as I heat up left overs for the rest of us. DD says "You said he had to eat real food" She was right. I did. So, I gave DS a small taste of everything, and all he did was scream and cry. I told him all he had to do was take a bite of everything and chew it before he said he doesn't like it. And if he still doesn't like the food, he could have something else. But he wouldn't take a single bite. So he went to bed hungry. I sure hope he doesn't decide to not eat again. All I want is just TASTE IT. Chances are he WILL like something on the plate. But he won't even try. I swore I would never be the mom who made a special plate for their child. And here I am, right in that boat.

Sorry I went off topic. But you keep working on making the changes with your daughter. It is so hard to stay on top of it when you child does not fall into playing her part of the role you see in your head on how it should work. Wouldn't it be nice with they said "yes, Mamm" and then do it without further whining? And the natural consequences of success take control and now they keep striving to be their best on their own accord?

By Debbie on Saturday, October 4, 2008 - 09:46 am:

As far as grades, we focus more on effort then grade. My oldest ds is very smart, a lot of time he chooses not to study. Even without studying he is getting straight A's. But, he knows since he chooses not to study, we expect those A's. He will be grounded from computer, video games, etc if he gets a B. We know he is capable of making all A's. So, if he makes a B because he just doesn't study, or do his work, then there will be consequences. On the other hand, my youngest has to work hard for his grades. He studies hard because he wants to do well. He too is making straight A's. But, if he doesn't, I wouldn't be upset because he studies and tries as hard as he can.

I think it is very important to teach our dks that they have to work hard to get what they want. I don't want them thinking it is okay to just sit back, and just coast through life.

By Luvn29 on Saturday, October 4, 2008 - 09:56 am:

I agree with the advice you have been given. However, I would have to do something about the homework thing. I couldn't just allow my child not to do it.

I wouldn't nag, but I would inform her that if homework wasn't done, there would be consequences for that, also. I've told my dd, who is in 7th grade this year, that if I couldn't trust her to remember the important things, such as what books she needs to bring home, that as a parent, it would be my responsibility to make sure she had proper materials. She's terrified of being embarrassed, and now makes sure she has everything she needs.

No, you shouldn't have to nag, but letting the grades and homework go for an entire grading period can be disasterous. What if she falls so far behind in a subject, she isn't able to catch up?

And Yvonne, I am exactly like you. I expect A's and B's, reaching for A's. However, Emily is in seventh grade and was accepted into pre-algebra and is doing her absolute best and is trying very hard. If she happened to get a C, I would accept it, but expect her to come to me more next grading period so I can give her additional help.

By Annie2 on Saturday, October 4, 2008 - 11:09 am:

I expect A's and B's also. My dd is a senior this year and had a hard time with algebra last year. She actually failed the course. NOW she realizes she needs that grade for points and to keep her GPA up; where colleges will accept her.
She's working like a dog this semester. I know she didn't apply herself last year. She knows it too.
I have three teenage girls, as you know. I have to stay on top of them for everything. It's my way or the highway. If they can wake themselves up in the am, extra early, to straighten their hair then they can be responsible for their homework.
I don't nag but I remind. I remind often.
The only thing that I have let the kids slide on is their rooms. They are not what I would expect from them but I just shut their doors. They will spend hours cleaning them only to be a mess in the next 45 minutes.
Hang in there...Somedays I wish my kids were still toddlers

By Mommyof5 on Saturday, October 4, 2008 - 08:04 pm:

Wow you are all making me feel like a real loser for saying a C. I want her to get better than a C and I hope that if by enforcing new rules and making the grades her responsiblity that she may finally "get it" that they need to be better than that in order for her to get what she wants out of life. Yes she will likely not get into a very good college with grades that are C's but I can't very well follow her around at college and make sure that she does her homework or gets all her assignemtns. I am at a crital time here that maybe some of the rest of you are not at with your kids or maybe you and your children indeed are perfect...but I am not perfect and neither is my child and we only have 2 years to get this child to be responsible enough to leave our home and function on her own. Dh and I have made mistakes and 'helped' her too much and now I am trying to do the best that I can to help her be ready to go out on her own. If you have a way to MAKE your teenager do all the things you expect then please pass it along to me. I am trying my best here and I was really feeling pretty good about it until all the posts about how a C is not good enough for other people...now I am feeling like a real loser. We have set up the rules that a "average" grade of C allows you to particpate in school events (this is what the school requires you to maintain to stay on a sports team as well), going to school functions ect. If our children want us to pay for college then they need to earn more than a C. If they want a cell phone then they have to be earining all B's and better. If they want a car then they need to have BETTER than a B cumulative average. As things stand with my oldest dd who is 15 with these new rules she will not be driving a car nor will she have a cell phone. My teenager must be very different from the children you all have because if I don't make the grades important to HER then she does not care how important they are to me. I don't see how telling her that the basics in life will come with average work but the good things like driving - cell phone etc. require extra work is sending the message that it is OK to skate through life. I'm also not sure what it meant that "I am still letting her make all the decisions". I am expecting that she be respectful to me, I am expecting that she do her share of the chores around the house, and I am expecting that she will do her homework if she wants to do anything other than sit in the house all the time. She has choosen not do some of those things in the last few days and so she has not had phone/computer privledges and has spent A LOT of time running errands with me since she couldn't go to the Football games or hang out with her friends. I am letting her choose if she wants to sit in the house and stare at me or if she wants to get her work done. I am hopefull that she will find staring at me all day long or following along while I complete errands a particularly dull activity and will choose that she needs to get her work done so that she can do something other than spend every minute outside of the school day at home with me. So what should i be doing differenlty? Yell at her until she does what I want?...tried it...it doesn't work. I really am at a loss here on what I should have done differenlty....

By Ginny~moderator on Saturday, October 4, 2008 - 09:40 pm:

I think insisting on Cs is a good starting point. You probably won't get them, at least for a few months, but it's a reasonable expectation. I think your guidelines for grades are reasonable and responsible parenting.

There is no point in thinking about what you "should have done differently". I can give you a list of a thousand things I "should have done differently". You can't change the past (much to my sorrow, believe me). You and your dh have decided to make a new start, and it isn't easy. But if you stick together and stick to your guns, doing what you are doing now, in time you will see change. Definitely, no yelling. You and dh, as parents, should appear to be the reasonable ones - taking the high road, and let her be the unreasonable person here (and pay the price when she is disrespectful). (Oh, and you were wise to remove the connection cords from the computer - I had to do that with the TV more than once. It's the old military line - trust, then verify. If you have the cords, you don't even have to verify.)

It isn't going to be easy, and you and dh will probably spend a lot of time late at night worrying and maybe crying (but not where your kids can see or hear). But I do believe that you will see a change. It will take time, because change takes time, but I do believe you will see change. And I suspect that in 10 years your daughter will come back to you and ask you why you waited until 2008 to do what you are doing now, and that she's glad you did finally decide to make her behave responsibly.

By Debbie on Saturday, October 4, 2008 - 10:43 pm:

I'm sorry if I offended you. I am not perfect, and neither are my dks. I was just trying to make the point, that we focus more on effort, and living up to your potential, instead of the grade itself. It would be hard for me to be happy with a C if there was no studying, and not turning in homework. But, if my child was working hard and made a c, I would be happy. And, as far as following her around college, no you can't do that. But, I know when I went away to the college of my choice, I was told that if I didnt' make good grades, I would be moving home, and going to the community college in my hometown, I made the grades.

I think you have made a great start with your dd. You can't think about what you could/should have done, you just have to move forward.

By Annie2 on Sunday, October 5, 2008 - 04:06 am:

No one here stated they have perfect kids nor did anyone state they were perfect parents...we gave you advice from where we are in our own homes. Some kids struggle with homework issues, being respectful some kids do not.
Believe me my 17 year old can swear worse than a Marine! but I'm working on it. It is a slow process but I am diligent about how I handle it. I have to be. Yes, when she goes off to college next year she will be able to swear all she wants so I have to curb the behavior now; while I still have control.
Teenagers are tough. They think they know everything and we parents know nothing. It's their mentality. Their brains are not hard-wired yet to accept that they do not know certain things. Yet this is the most important time in their lives. They learn to drive, need to get good grades for college, need to decide what they want to do for their lively hood, etc.
You have realized there is discord in your home...that is the first step to making things right.
We are all in the same boat here. Some boats may be bigger and faster than other boats, some may be slower and older but we are all able to sink at any point of the voyage.

Obviously, by the number of posts to your question, this is a hard issue for many parents. If there was a quick fix, one of us could make millions by writing a book. There is no quick fix to teenagers, I'm finding. Some days are great; some days are crap.

I also hate the door slamming and the classic "eye roll".

By Dawnk777 on Sunday, October 5, 2008 - 03:43 pm:

Did I say she does homework cheerfully, though? LOL! Not always. She just had a fit about having to do homework, but now she's doing it. (not because I told her she had to do it, but because she knows she has to do it.)

By Luvn29 on Sunday, October 5, 2008 - 04:52 pm:

My children aren't perfect. Neither do I ask them to be. The difference with me is that I have expected the best they can do from Kindergarten. So now that they are in higher grades, it is old stuff. They have adjusted gradually, with harder work meaning working a bit harder to get the grades.

Is there anyway you can get your daughter to go from failing to straight A's all of a sudden? Not a chance. Not if she doesn't want to. I never said you should expect that from her. I did say I think it is not too much to expect her to do her homework, and not wait till a grading period is over to make a point.

Nope, you can't follow her around college. But at that point, she will be 18. Right now she is still a minor, and as a mother, I don't feel she should be allowed to make the decision not to do homework for a full grading period.

I'm sorry for offending you. I don't think anyone here was trying to make you feel bad. You asked for advice, and that is what we all were trying to do. And I still stand by everything I said initially.

By Mommyof5 on Sunday, October 5, 2008 - 08:59 pm:

Adena please tell me how I can MAKE her do her homework. I am not being nasty with this question I really do not know how to MAKE her do it. I have taken away every privledge she has and she still will not do it. What do I do to MAKE her do it? Reminding her to get it out and sit at the table and get it done..complete with me offering to help her results in her just staring at it and then purposly trying to pick a fight. Even when I refuse to argue with her I can not make her pick up the pencil and complete the work. I can not go to school with her and make her complete the tests to the best of her ability. Belive me I have tried eveything short of going to school with her. I am at a point with her that I honestly feel that the only way she will "get it" is if she fails a class or falls behind. It is very very hard for dh and I to sit back and let her fail but I don't see that i have any other choice. Just expecting it isn't enough, demanding it isn't enough. It really seems as if the only way she will get it is if her actions or lack of actions actually cause her a little pain or embarassment. Please do not think me a horrible mother because felling like I am letting her fail" really does hurt me and is very hard to do but at this point I think I would be doing her an injustice to continue to try and "rescue" her from herself. I would love for her to do her homework because the last few days have been driving me crazy..which I am sure is her goal. I apologize if I came across as nasty in last post. I am just so frustrated with her and the situation and I am a little cranky. :-)

By Dramamamma on Sunday, October 5, 2008 - 10:09 pm:

I don't have any advice because my son is only 7 years old but wanted to offer hugs. I don't look forward to this stage at all.

Is it just one class that she doesn't want to do the homework in or is it all? My thought would be if it's just one perhaps she's REALLY struggling in that class and is frustrated with the work? I don't know just a thought I had...

Good luck and big hugs!

By Kaye on Sunday, October 5, 2008 - 10:41 pm:

Tammie, I was exactly where you are, only for us it was last year (8th grade). My dd who is very smart, failed a class 2 grading periods because of just refusing to do work. We were mean, we yelled, we threatened and ultimately it all failed.

I do not know exactly what worked, but this year, it is a whole new ball game. Really she found band and it became the right motivation for her. I hope your dd finds the right thing for her.

However one thing we did want to do, that we couldn't get the teacher to buy into. Is for every zero, we wanted her to have a school punishment, like a dhall or isolated lunch. This year the school does that automatically, so it wouldn't of been an issue.

But I agree you can't make her do her work. You can make her life miserable. But I also feel like that is a fine line. You don't want her life to be so miserable that it isn't worth living, self esteems are fragile, etc.

The only real answer...pray...and don't give up. Just continue to enforce your consequences. She will figure it out. When she argues, just remind her, she chose this, not you.

By Tarable on Monday, October 6, 2008 - 09:22 am:

I am also in the same boat as you right now. My dd in 6th grade will go even further than yours... She hides the homework from me or tried and said she didn't have any well no the teachers let me know. I am pretty much doing the same thing as you at least until I go in for a conference with the school counselor Thursday.

Don't feel bad and don't EVER think it is something you did wrong. I am living proof.. My other DD in 8th grade makes straight As (maybe an occasional B in math) and I have never had to tell her to do her homework or anything else. It is ultimately your dd's decision and all you can do is try to influence her and show her why it is so important.

{{{HUGE HUGS}}} dont' forget that you are definately not alone in your struggle..

By Luvn29 on Monday, October 6, 2008 - 07:38 pm:

You can't physically force her. I understand that. And I understand that you are just frustrated so I am not taking it personally. Not at all. And I feel your pain. So much. I wish there was an easy solution.

I'm not in your shoes so it is easy for me to give advice. And I see how some say not to make life too miserable. However, if it were me in these shoes, I would have to say that I would take everything out of her bedroom except her bed. Everything. Clothes, books, electronics. Everything. And she would go in there everyday after school until homework was finished. If this meant till bedtime, so be it. Seems to me, she'd get sick of this situation after a couple of days. I feel like there is a power struggle here and you need to let her see you are the parent and in control. If she doesn't, it will only get worse.

And yes, all of this is easy for me to say. But I do also live it. I just gave my dd's things back to her after two weeks. I had taken cell, computer, and phone away from her for repeat bad behavior.

Also, she procrastinated for the entire six weeks and didn't read her required 3 A.R. books. She spent every minute of that last weekend reading her books. I didn't make her, she chose to because she knew it had to be done or she would get a C or lower. And she knew if she got a C or lower in reading, she would be grounded until her grades were brought up. I have to have proof and that doesn't come till mid six weeks.

This behavior was learned. It didn't come naturally for my dd. She has learned there are consequences to certain behaviors. Now she tries to prevent those consequences on her own.

Good luck. You aren't alone in this, and we are all here for you. I hope you can find something that works for your family.

By Luvn29 on Monday, October 6, 2008 - 07:40 pm:

And by the way...I don't feel like you are a bad mother at all. After all, you are here trying to get help! We all have our struggles. You are an excellent mother because you care.

By Annie2 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 - 12:03 am:

How did it go today? Thinking about you
Tara made a good point about your dd's classes. Is she having a problem in one of them and that is throwing her off?
Stick to your guns...this will pass

By Mommyof5 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 - 10:34 am:

We carpool to the highschool with another family in our neighborhood..the other family takes and I pick up. I get to our pickup place - it is a block from school because it will take a good 30 minutes to get out of the school parking lot and I have to get other kids from two other schools so this is quicker for us---she is not there but the neighbor girl is. I ask N if she has seen H and she says no she wansn't outside waiting for her today. I wait 15 minutes and she still is not there so I take N home. A little while after I get home from getting my other kids she calls from the Juice Stop (our pickup place) and says Hi I am ready to be picked up now. This is twice that she has done this since the new rules. She is spending time with her new boyfried after school because she can not spend time with him in the evenings/weekends because of her grades. I have had it with this and tell her she will need to walk today because i have already done the school pickup and she wasn't there and I had warned her about that. She starts with the You can't do that to me. It is raining outside what am I supposed to do? I calmly tell her that I saw many many many teenagers walking home in the rain today and if they can do it so can she--it is all of 10 blocks. Surprisingly she did walk home---she took her time about it but she did it. I decided I was not even going to bring it up. I know from past experience that she would be waiting for me to say something and that would be her chance to get an argument going. DH got home right before she did and he asked her how her day was and she told him she could not belive that I did that to her. Dh simply said it sounds as if you made a bad decision when you chose not to follow mom's rules. The rest of the night was going along pretty well...she was actually sitting at the table and attempting to do some homework. While she was working on this the phone rang---it is right by the desk so she got to it before any of us and it was her "boyfriend". When her hour was up dh told her it was time to get off the phone and she said OOOOOKKKKK--image that being said in the loud sassy teenage voice---dh told her 1 minute and she gave him more sass he then said finish your call now or I will get on the other line and tell D that he needs to tell you goodbye for the night. So that does it and she finishes the call. However, once the phone is down she screams at dh how much she hates him, hates her life and she has nothing good in it. Everything good she ever had we have taken away from her and won't give back. She continues raging in this way for about an hour and then goes to bed---homework unfinished. Please tell me honestly, is this typical behavior or do we possibly have a more serious problem going on? Is this is just a normal reaction to the rules? I tried to leave the 1 hour of screen/phone time so that as Kaye said she had something to look forward to so that she didnt' feel like her life was so miserable it wasn't worth living but my instinct is to yank it all. But I have a feeling that will just end up making the rest of our lives he!! I have 4 children younger than she is and even the 6 year old "gets" the rules and the consequences. It seems as if H just wants to play the role of a victim and everything happens TO her she has no control over it and that just isn't true.

By Tarable on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 - 11:04 am:

In my experience as a parent and as a teen this seems pretty normal.

The only think I might have done differently is that when she started yelling and arguing with dh I probably would have said.. well i guess you don't want to have your phone/screen time tomorrow. And if it continued I would increase the amount of time before she got it back. Yelling and arguing are not accepted at my house although it seems to happen a lot.

Trust me my kids nor I are even close to perfect in any way, but I still try to make the respect me and dh.

Your dd is pushing you to see if you will give in.. now is when you have to stick to your plans and not give in even an inch.

Good luck!!!

By Annie2 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 - 11:59 am:

Again I agree with Tara. You did everything right. She'll get it. When she has to do things herself and not rely on you, she will step up to the plate.
Just this year, when my kids called me from school stating they forgot this or that, I now tell them too bad. Your old enough to be responsible for your homework, lunch money, pom poms, etc.
She'll get it soon. You made a huge impact on her life by making her walk home.
Kudos for you for not bringing it back up. That would have been a huge battle. Speaking bad to her father is not good but you do have to stick to one issue at a time.
Hang in there!

By Bobbie~moderatr on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 - 12:02 pm:

I agree 100%. Sounds like a typical, backed into a corner, teen response.. When all else fails, "Everyone hates me here, my life sucks, it is all YOUR fault, and I hate YOU."

By no means is her current punishment your fault, or any punishment that has to follow to gain control in your household. Clearly state what is expected, follow through with whatever punishment you have set for her actions, and the rest is up to her. She makes the right/proper choice or she looses her right to choose, period. Actions have consequences and the sooner she gets a grip on that fact the sooner she will start complying with the house expectations.

By the way, I would have made her walk home too. She knew she was to be picked up, she chose to do as she pleased, she chose to walk.

She is use to getting her way and she is going to pull out all stops to figure out how to break you. You and DH have to stand together on this and you need to stick to your guns. You bat an eye, she gets a notion that she is gaining ground and she will work that until she feels she has regained control.

Stay consistent. Recognize the positives, acknowledge the steps forward she takes, and reinforce the fact that you love her when ever you have to delve out a punishment. Might look into a rewards system too. She complies and she gets extra privilege, but I personally would make them short lived rewards, extra half hour here, invite of boyfriend over on a Saturday evening for a supervised hang out (move night). Things she can work towards earning, but like I said short lived rewards for now. Give and take. You get what you want, she will get what she wants.

Honestly, Other than consistency there really isn't very many suggestions that we can give. We don't know your child, and you have to get a child where they live to know what will work and what won't. We are called to do the best we can, which it sounds like you are attempting to do.

The good news, you will apply different rules to your younger children, and you may not have to go through this again.

((((BIG HUGS))))

By Bea on Monday, October 27, 2008 - 05:51 pm:

Yes Yes Yes. I speak as one who made ALL the wrong decisions. Hindsight is always 20-20.
Write a set of rules and expectations. The rules are for all your kids. The expectations include the things related to each child according to their age. Post these rules and expectations after you and your husband have read them to the kids. This is not a democratic discussion. If they disagree, and they will, repeat that this ISthe law from that moment on. Decide consequences for each infraction. Think hard on these as you must be able to enforce them. Then BE CONSISTANT. Don't back down. Don't threaten. Don't Argue. Be available to talk with your kids, but not to argue. Give lots of hugs and positive encouragement when it is earned, but....You are not trying to be a buddy. You are the parent. I don't believe in rewards. I do believe that when a child adds joy and not contention to the family dynamics it should be recognised with extra trust and freedom. That does not mean that a good act gets rewarded. That means that mutual trust and respect will make life better for everyone within your home.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 - 10:29 am:

I agree with Bea, we aren't a "reward" family either.

How are things going??

By Mommyof5 on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 10:48 am:

The school term ended on Friday..this was also homecoming. We told her well in advance of homecoming that she could only go if we had verficiation from the teachers that she had a C or above in her classes...there are really only two classes out of 4 that we were concerned about. On friday after school she went to her teachers and in one class she was fine. In the other...not so fine...before the final she had a F. This was because she had about 8 classwork assignments that she had not turned in. The teacher said he would give her one chance to complete the missing work by Monday or he could just Fail her right there. She chose the second chance. However, this did not get her a "second chance" at home. She threw a nice little temper tantrum for about 2 hours because we had said NO to homecoming because of her grades. She went on about how it wasn't fair...we didn't do this to her last year. She was right we did not do this to her last year but we have changed the rules and gave her plenty of notice and even reminders about those rules and consequences in plenty of time for her to do what she needed to do. she simply chose not to do it. She tried to place the blame on dh and I because we didn't help with her homework...in the past we would have spent hours every night trying to drag out of her what she needed to do and then making her sit down with us and get it done. It was exhausting for dh and I and really it cheated the other kids because we had to spend so much time just getting her to get it done so when we came up with the new rules we said that we are available to help but she would have to ask for that help. She never did....not once. We always ask if the kids have their homework done and she always answered Yes, we knew that likely wasnt' the case but with only 2.5 years of high school left she has to start taking the lead instead of waiting for us to tell her what needs to be done. We have been working with a counselor to help us all with our fighting & communication and she shared with dh and I that as odd as it sounded the counselor was a little pleased that H chose not to do her work in biology and that we stuck to the rules for something this "big" in H's life. So hopefully dd will begin to realize that the rules are firm and that she will need to start following them if she wants to do anything other than run errands with me and sit around the house with her younger siblings. A new term starts on Monday so I am hopefull she will pull herself together.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 11:14 am:

Yeah you!!! Stay firm, as much as it might hurt/upset you, stay consistent. She has to do what is expected or pay the price, those are the rules of life, not just in your home.. She needs to understand there are expectations and if they are not met she looses something. Fail to drive responsibly, loose your license. Fail to do your job correctly, loose your job. You are doing the right thing.. She will come around and younger children will be less likely to pull this nonsense because the rules will already be in effect and they will see that you mean business. (((HUGS)))

By Ginny~moderator on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 11:40 am:

Oh yeah! Good for you, Tammie. Bobbie is right - stick to your guns. Some kids are just more hard-headed than others and it takes time for change to sink in, especially unwelcome change. Yes, it is hard on you and dh, but you are definitely doing the right thing. And remember, you have younger children watching (and I'm sure you are applying pretty much the same rules across the board), and if she gets away with this sort of stuff they will be trying it too.

By Debbie on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 11:42 am:

Good for you! Hopefully, she will make better decisions this term, and decide she better get the work done.

By Luvn29 on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 08:38 pm:

You did great! I'm sure after this, she will take you and your dh much more seriously.

By Tayjar on Friday, October 31, 2008 - 11:32 am:

I am so proud of you and your DH. This is exactly what she needs. She'll hate you but it's OK. You are doing your jobs as parents. It will get easier. Your younger children are learning from this as well.