Do you spank your children?
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive January-June 2005:
Do you spank your children?
I remember when I was pregnant with Rylee, Chris and I would talk sometimes about how we were going to raise her. I got spanked as a kid, and one time they went too far and I went to school with a bruise in a shape of a hand print on my face. I swore that I would never hit my children on that very day.
Well, now I am a parent, and time out does not work for her. So, we give her a "pow-pow" on her thigh or her hand.
Last night, along with the past three nights, she has been having terrible tantrums and screaming and crying for no apparent reason. I tried so hard last night to make her happy, but nothing was working. She was throwing herself on the ground; kicking and screaming. She threw her sippie cup at me, and I told her no, we don't throw stuff at Mommy. She then tried to hit me, and Chris took her and spanked her on her leg.
She would not calm down, so we put her in her room, and she screamed and cried for about 45 minutes. I cried too. I couldn't stand her crying the way that she was. It took everything in me to leave her in there. She eventually fell asleep.
I don't know what to do with these tantrums. I tried to leave her alone and ignore them, but then they get worse if I do that.
What should I do? Do you spank your kids? How do you punish them? I know that what works for some doesn't work for all, but I am at a loss right now.
I don't spank my kids. Honestly, if she is having a tantrum, a spanking will only serve to make that tantrum escalate. If she is having a meltdown, the only thing that will calm her down is time. Her emotions are in full swing, and there is absolutely no reasoning with that. You need to give her space and let her know you will be happy to talk to her when she is as calm as you are.
Look at the situation you described last night. She tried to hit you so your dh spanked her leg to get the message across that it's not okay to hit. See the irony?
You said ignoring it makes it worse. Clearly trying to work with her calmly or through spankings is making it worse as well.
I am a huge fan of Love and Logic parenting. I am sure you have heard me talk about it before. LOL. I would definitely suggest you check out some of their books and tapes. It has made a huge difference for me through the years!
I hope the beginning of my post didn't sound like an attack. It's not my intent whatsoever. I just don't think spanking is necessary. 
Spanking: Never did it,never will.
We will only spank if our children did something that could seriously injure themselves or someone else (i.e., run out into the street, put fingers in a socket). That said, we have spanked less than 5 times ever and usually a pop on the hand or swat on the butt. I have been tempted to spank many times, but it is usually in anger and that doesn't teach a child anything except how to lose their temper.
Ignore the tantrums. If they get worse, then they get worse. What does it really matter if they get worse? yeah, they are loud and annoying, but she's not going to hurt herself. She'll eventually learn that it isn't alot of fun to pitch a fit, esp. when it doesn't result in attention (even negative attn) or what she wanted. If she tantrums in a public place, you leave OR you do a timeout in the store, then regroup and finish your shopping.
I would study her carefully and see if you can figure out a pattern to what may set the tantrums off. If you can, then you can hopefully begin to pre-empt them by redirecting her before she tantrums. I can't remember exactly how old she is, but if she is 2 or older I would highly recommend "1-2-3 Magic." This is how I discipline my kids and they have always been generally well behaved without too many crises. They certainly aren't perfect, but time out was very effective for them.
In the above scenario, here's what I would have done. She throws the cup, then she looses the cup and would have been told very firmly "NO! We don't throw cups at people. That hurts." I would have set her down on the floor and walked away for a few seconds, paying no attention--I'm talking 30 seconds or so. Then I would go to her, hug her, and redirect her to a book, toy, or some activity. If at that point she had tried to hit me I would have said, "No! We don't hit." and put her in her bed for a minute or two. The I would attempt to go get her and love on her and redirect behavior. If she tantrummed at this point, then I would lay her on the floor in a safe place, let her go at it, and say, "Oh well. Mommy wanted to play with you, read books, etc. but I'll wait to you can calm down and play nicely." and walk away. I would ignore the tantrum and when it's over don't lecture (kids just don't get it even if it makes us feel better ) and just resume life as normal.
Think about the message you are sending when she tries to hit you, but she got hit instead. Doesn't seem quite fair and it really sends a mixed message. I am not an advocate of spanking, but I would "never say never" either. However, I think esp. when you are dealing with aggressive behavior that it sends a very conflicting message.
I don't like to spank, but I do sometimes. I was spanked as a child & I certainly don't resent my parents for it. All 3 of us kids turned out good and we were not afraid of our parents & were certainly not bullies.
When Hailey is throwing a fit I pop her on the leg and it usually sends her back into reality and she straightens up. It aggrivates me that she throws fits and they are horrible at times but usually that is all it takes anymore. Katelyn is a different story I rarely if ever have to spank her, she does well with me or her daddy talking to her. I imagine Hailey will be the same way when she gets older, this age is hard to know how to discipline them. You can try different ways to handle it and see which way best works for the both of you. Eye contact works really well with both of my children, if I make them look at me while I am telling them something it sinks in better. (Of course you can't expect a fit-throwing toddler to look you in the eye) Good Luck I know this stage in hard, at least for me it is.
Ditto Clarabell.
My youngest used to hit. I would just take her hand and put it gently on my cheek and say "nice touching mummy, no hitting"
Tantrums - just walk away and ignore it. Unless you are in public, then pick the child up, leave and don't bring her back in.
Raylee I understand your feeling of not spanking her because of your spankings as a child. My son's father/ boyfriend at the time when my dd was about 5 told me that my daughter had sad something and to spank her that I never spank her, and I told him thats because I don't know how to spank her and he couldn't get what I meant, and I told him that I had never been spanked or popped so I didn't know how to hit her.
Sorry my point, I dont' spank have never spanked my dd in the 9 1/2 yrs she has been on this earth nor have i ever spanked my ds. I agree with Pam T if you ignore the tantrums I believer they will go away on there won, because children are smarter then we think and eventually she will see that she is using all of this energy, tiring herself out for what reason, its not getting her any special attention, or what she wants. And I think she will soon realize that just the oppisite behavior gets her more attention.
When it is necessary, yes i do spank ds. It never really hurts him that much because i spank his bottom while he has clothes on. BUt it does get the point across that Mom is SERIOUS!
I know, sending her/him to their room doesn't teach anything, they still throw a tantrum 10 minutes later about something else.
To calm my ds down i would just calmly and quietly count to 10 and tell him to count with me. he would eventually calm down enough to count with me. Then i told him to take some deep breaths and use his words to tell me what he wanted rather than throwing a fit.
Good luck Rayanne, i know it is a tough age to deal with.
I always told ds that he was lucky he was so cute!
Didn't believe in spanking until I had 3 boys. But it was never more than a single swat on the behind or knees or hands with my hand. Never had the belt or switch used on me and I never could do it myself. Just too severe. The swats, and they would sometimes sting me so I know they would sometimes sting the boys, were more to get their attention when nothing else worked than as punishment. And I never did that if they had gotten me really angry because I was afraid I'd go too far and hurt them. I always told the boys that spanking just meant somebody bigger than them could hurt them. I used that line when they were fighting and that would usually put an end to their fighting. But I never liked doing that. It always made me feel grodey.
DD has been swatted once by me and it probably won't happen again. She had an absolute meltdown because she thought I didn't love her anymore. She is so in tune with me that most of the time all I have to do is get down on her level face to face and tell her that I am upset with her actions and why and it stops. I yelled at her a few weeks ago because she was just being out of control and nuts. She stopped, looked me straight in the eye and said "Mommy, you're scaring me." It finally stopped her behavior though.
I agree 100% with PamT.
I also agree with PamT 100% as well. DS is 4 1/2 and DD is 10 months and I have never had to spank either of them. I have hit the top of their hand if they are going for something they shouldn't. I guess I shouldn't say hit, it's more of a tap on the top of their hand.
I was not spanked growing up and do not spank my ds. What I like about no spanking is that it really taught me to respect my body and that no one had the right to touch me if I didn't want them to. I think that is a good lesson.
Do you watch super nanny at all? I think she has some good time out methods for all ages. She also has a book out.
Best,
Amy
I agree with PamT, and think she gives good advice.
I spanked, but quickly learned that it had little effect other than making my children afraid of me. I also learned that to spank when I was angry came awfully close to crossing, and sometimes crossed the line of abuse.
It was much more effective to send or take them to their rooms (no toys, TV or radio in the room), close the door and walk away.
My church had a Guatemalan refugee family in Sanctuary for many years. I watched them with their children, a girl, 4 when they came to us, who was with them when they escaped from Guatemala, through El Salvador, and suffered abuse from the Mexican police. Their son is now about 17 or 18. When their children misbehaved, said "NO" or had tantrums, a parent would pick up the child, sit down, and speak softly and lovingly to the child and stroke the child and hug him or her. It was amazing - the child always calmed down, maybe cried a bit, said "sorry", and when he or she got down, went on about their busines being a good child. I don't think they ever either struck their children or raised their voices to them (other than, NO, don't run into the street). They are fine young people, well behaved, courteous, not one little bit spoiled.
I wish I had had that experience before my children were born, and maybe I would never have spanked at all.
I also agree that hitting a child for hitting says only that hitting is OK if you are the big one.
I was always spanked as a kid and it is not detrimental to one's mental health IMO. I am all for just doing what works. If a swat on the butt (not in reaction of anger, as a consequence) works for a child, then great, but my philosophy is to try other things first. One kids could get spanked all day and never notice it, while another could get one swat and get back to reality. It's individual so you have to see what works for your child.
As far as tantrums go, unless she is damaging her self, others, or property, I think it's best to ignore. As a K teacher of very problematic children I've dealt with tons of tantrums..kicking, screaming, you name it. My experience has been it's best to ignore. Often you can't control it anyway. If it's not just for attention, then the child is just angry and needs to get it out. Often it's a phase and one day it just stops.
I'm also one that thinks yes, your child should fear you to a certain extent. They should know that yes, you are the boss, you are the big one. That's just the way it is. Like I said, I was spanked my whole life (butt only) growing up and I never hit others or hit my parents. I'm not an angry person. Spanking is just one method of punishment or consequence. Just like every other idea out there for discipline, it's different for every kid.
Good luck! Tantrums are hell!!!
I spanked. It was useless with my daughter.
I was spanked myself and while I do't think it did any harm it certainly didn't do any good either. Bescause it didn't harm me isn't a good enough reason to excuse me if I do it. At best spanking is a neutral action. I want my parenting and discipline to do active good.
I don't think fear is in any way good. Respect yes, but that's differesnt. And it's something you have to give to recieve. Spanking my kids would be disrespectful. Period.
I was spanked often and until I was much too old. I have spanked my kids each a handful of times, each time was one swat with my hand on their rear, through their clothes. My kids know that spanking is only when they are out of control. Consistent time-outs (Supernanny style) and a short (two or three sentance) explanation is usually enough for my kids.
Rayanne, most kids will "up the ante" when a punishment is laid down to see if you are going to stick to it. Behaviorists call it a behavior spike and if you can outlast it, kids will fall in line pretty quickly after that initial acting out hasn't gotten them what they want. If you give in after they've acted worse, they know that they have to act that badly to get what they want. {{{Rayanne}}} It's a tough age and a tough spot for you to be in but stick to your guns. Most discipline methods take a week or two to implement effectively.
I was spanked with a thin, leather belt, for any and everything my dad even *thought* I did wrong - and he always gave me *one more, because you're the oldest*. It stopped when I was around 10 and he was chasing me with his belt and I jumped into the closet and closed the louver door on his hand.
That said - I suppose I didn't suffer any long lasting effects from spanking. But spanked become spankers usually, and I spanked a few times when my kids were young. And I wish I hadn't.
A swat on the butt is different than being waled on with a belt though. But as was said before, if you are trying to teach your kids that physical violence is not the answer, you are confusing them by using physical measures to make them behave.
In hindsight, I wish I had never spanked - the few times I did, it didn't stop the behavior, and I wish I had done something like what Ginny is talking about. And IMO, the worst thing you can do, like Pamt said, is spank when you are angry.
I NEVER spank Rylee out of anger.
I want to make that clear to everyone.
I was always against it, but it is the only thing that works for her.
I always try differnt things first before I spank her. The spanking is the last resort if what I have done already does not work.
I do talk softly to her and hold her, but she is a very stubborn little girl, and if she is mad, will throw her whole weight into her body and make herself go backwards or to the side. Sometimes, she even tries to head bunt me if I am talking softly.
I love my daughter dearly, and I know that this stage is hard. It is very trying at times, and this is my first time handeling situations like this.
I hope that no one thinks that I am a bad parent for spanking her as a punishment, but when nothing else works, it does.
I certainly do not think you are a bad parent. I understand what you are saying because I do the same thing. Olivia will throw herself backwards when she starts to throw a fit & her head catches me in the throat & it hurts. I try different things too, but sometimes a swat on the butt is what it takes & other times time out or walking away will work.
Did anyone see America's Funniest Home Video last night. They was a little boy throwing a really good tantrum & as soon as his parents walked away he stopped crying, went looking for them & when he found them he would thorw himself back on the ground & start in again. This happened several times.
Rayanne you are not a bad parent!!! You are concerned and are doing what helps with your child and what you have seen gets her attention. I agree with Tink...it will be a tough period but then it will end and she will get the picture or outgrow it. Stick to your guns and do what *you* think is best. You're not doing anything "bad"...you're a great mom!
Generally, I am very opposed to it. There have been a few (and I mean a few- less than five) choice instances where I have swatted both kids on the back of their hand. If I remember correctly it was for definance- outright sassiness. They can both be a little over the top at times- but these times were after many other strategies were tried to no avail. In those few instances, it served to "get their attention," which was the point, because nothing else was working.
My boys (especially my oldest) are VERY TOUGH. The two year old tantrums were really rough. My oldest used to tantrum for 2 1/2 hours. Screamed at the top of his lungs. Honestly, there is not much you can do except help them deescalate. I don't think that's the time to teach about not hitting either.
I would look into what the triggers are. That might give you a way to be more proactive about them. For discipline, we use time out, and taking away privilidges depending on the situation. We also do something called "Say sorry and show sorry." When they were young that meant say and give a hug to the person you just threw the sippy cup at....
We do the sorry thing too. We tell her to say sorry to whomever and then she gives us a kiss and a hug. After that I always tell her how much I love her, and that it hurts Mommy's feelings when she does what she does.
Spanking worked MIRACLES with Kaitlyn's tantrums. She's just turning 2 and they are virtually gone. Maybe an occasional small one but nothing like when the "teriibles 2's" first started approaching. She tried hitting me once and she was spanked back and put in time out and has NEVER tried it since. I see spanking as the hidden discipline that everyone is afraid to use. I doubt my daughter is scared of me or suffers any emotional problems from this, this is quite the opposite. And honestly, she is such a good kid now. She says "Please, thank you, i'm sorry" and is generally well behaved. Just 3 months ago I felt like throwing my hands up and giving up because it seemed like there would be no end and I had women here and on other boards (no offense girls ) tell me how "bad" spanking was so I steered away from it. After seeing no improvement in DD, I didnt care what others thought, and did what I thought was appropriate. Now, 3 months later and she is wonderful.
Just my personal experience.
I have asked a counselor and a doctor who both know my special child (some of you know who I am referring to) if spanking is ok. Spanking is defined as one or two swats with an open hand on the clothed buttock. They both said if I have tried everything else first that it is ok. I made sure this child was there when I asked. I have hardly ever used this route. Everyone has their opinion. I disagree with anyone that spanks in anger.
I found 1 2 3 Magic to be very helpful Rayanne. I have fallen off of the wagon though.
It sounds like your DD might be very frustrated about something. Does she have any vocabulary yet? Have you asked her to show you what is wrong or to show you what she wants/needs? I know one year olds know what we talk about and I have had to figure out many a tantrum at home and in the daycare. Sometimes if I ask them they will take me by the hand and show me the way to exactly what they want! The technique Pamt describes is also something we do at daycare.
Sorry you are going through this. I know how frustrating it can be.
No, in general my DH and I don't believe in spanking. But, yes, I admit it. I have lost my temper and have swatted my DD's rear end. I am not at all proud of it though. I felt like I lost control of my emotions and anger and lashed out at her. I don't think it was rational thinking on my part. That's not the kind of parent I want to be. JMHO
Now, if we are talking bare rear ends and boards and belts...I think that is abusive.
Yes, I spanked my kids. I don't any more because they're really too old. I also found for Robin spanking just didn't work. It just made things worse. We had to be very creative in disciplining him (still do!). He's like a Borg--he assimilates (sp) every method of discipline we try after a few weeks and we have to try something else! lol With Randy usually just the threat of spanking worked wonders. I'd say give 1-2-3 Magic a try. That was one that worked (for a while) with Robin. For tantrums, I'd try my darndest to ignore her. I know it's SO hard sometimes, especially when she's throwing things at you and trying to hit you. You could also try just holding/restraining her and speaking calmly until she calms down. I've done that with Robin--even to the point where he's still very angry/upset, but he's not throwing things or trying to hit. With him I've learned to 'read' when he's calming down. He's a fist clencher. When he's upset or angry he makes fists. Not always holding them up, just at his sides. He also breathes hard and gets very tense. When he starts to loosen up a bit and his hands aren't white nuckled, I know he's calming down. If you do choose to hold her or otherwise physically restrain her, be very careful doing it so neither of you gets hurt. A few years back Robin swung his head back and broke a bone in my face (youch!!!). You might even ask your ped to show you a safe way to hold her.
Oh, and yes, I was spanked as a child, but not NEAR as often as my brothers and honestly, I couldn't even give you a specific incendent of me getting spanked. I could with my oldest brother! lol
No spanking here. DS thought spanking was funny and hit back.
So we read the book 1-2-3 magic and learned to time out.
Rarely have I spanked the kids, it all depends on the kid too. I have one that it breaks his heart when I have spanked him, not what I am trying to do. One that just gets more stubborn, again not what I am going for. One that needed it when younger and much more often than the other ones and got an occasional spanking. One that rarely needed spanking and took it to heart when he got in that big of trouble.
I "swat" but typically its dh that does the "spanking", and its got to be for a pretty good reason. Don't get me wrong its not because I don't want to be the bad guy, they kids just think its a joke when I do it. Very rarely do we use this form of discipline. Usually grounding the kids from their tv's or the like gets our point across.
I will spank Christopher's hand on occasion, but I've found that it works less and less. He responds much better to time out. I put him in his crib with the lights on and the door open. I tell him why he is in time out, and how long he will be there. Boy does he scream! But he behaves afterwards (at least for awhile!)
However, I will use spanking if it is necessary and it works. My mother spanked me, but it wasn't abuse, she used it correctly, and it worked.
Oh and we never hit Christopher to punish him for hitting. It just doesn't make sense, "you can't hit me, but I can hit you". We only spank in situations where he could hurt himself and he just won't listen.
I have different take on hitting back on the very rare occasion any of the dks have hit me. If they hit me I hit them back harder than they hit me. I think it is a valuable lesson that if you hit someone they can and probably will hit you back, and they may be bigger and stronger than you to boot. Finding a different solution becomes a better idea to them.
I am generally NOT a spanker, mainly because I can reason with Brendan pretty well. He doesn't throw fits very much anymore unless he's having and off day...
Having said that Friday he got out of his carseat twice and I immediately pulled the car over and he got a spanking and buckled back in. Pretty much how it goes here is if he gets a spanking he KNOWS he's done really wrong or dangerous.
Rayanne, you are a wonderful mom, I wouldn't go back to that age/stage if you paid me! lol... It WILL get easier. I found the more he talked the few and far between the fits became.
Ditto Emily7
And, as for this statement:
"you can't hit me, but I can hit you"
I don't buy it. I can do what I need to do because I'm the mom, I'm an adult and I'm responsible for you.
I can drink wine, you can't. I can drive the car, you can't.
I can spank, you can't.
I may want to mention that I spank my kids. Not on a regular, everyday basis. And, not just because they made a small mistake.
If they do something that is dangerous, they will get a swat on the fully clothed backside. If nothing is getting through to them, the same.
I've been mulling over this, embarassed to post because my kids do get swats on the hand or bottom when they are out of line. I don't think that makes me a bad mother or an abusive one for that matter. Madison has run into the street twice this week, despite me yelling stop, and multiple discussions about the danger of going in the street. She's gotten a spanking for that. Shane has begun biting Maddie, he's gotten spankings for that. As far as the "you can't hit, but I can" I have to say reality is if I walked up to someone and hit them, they'd probably hit me back. If someone walked up to me and hit me, I know I'd hit them back. That's life, you can't just hit people. It's cause and effect. I've had 2 teeth crack from my kids throwing tantrums and headbutting me or kicking me as I tried to remove them from the situation. Hitting hurts, and if the last resort I have to show them that and teach them that it's unacceptable is by spanking them, I'll do it. I've never left a mark on them, never hit them with anything but my hand, and don't beat them or even spank them all the time. I was only spanked when I REALLY screwed up, usually it was with my 4 cousins, and my aunt would line us up and spank us all. You knew you were in trouble if Aunt Nancy was gonna swat you!! That said, there have been a few times my kids have thrown MAJOR tantrums in public, and needed a swat, but I'm afraid to even swat them on the backside because someone will raise hell about it. In the same breath, those people are looking at us thinking "Why doesn't that woman get ahold of her kids?!" You can't win.
Breann and Palmbchprincess....DITTO! You both said things better than I can!
I do the same as Crystal and Breann have said also. It has more of an effect on my middle child, than it does my 6 year old. I really think it depends on the child as to whether or not a spanking will be beneficial in helping him/her realize that what they did was wrong. I am only for a spanking on the backside, that leaves no marks, and only in certain serious circumstances, not all the time.
Palmbchprincess, I totally agree with you about the "in public" thing. There have been a couple of times where my DH has about spanked my youngest (3) in public. I always tell him he better not, you can get arrested for that! Someone would tell and the next thing you know, the kids would be taken away.
Remember that lady that was all over tv that was beating her child in her SUV and they caught it on security tape? That was totally uncalled for and I think that was abusive. I don't want to give the impression that I am like that, beating my kids.
This is occasional, and they know I (or daddy) mean business when they get a spanking. And, they usually remember what they were spanked for, and they don't repeat the behavior!
There are so many different parenting styles. I wouldn't call "spanking" a style of parenting. It makes it sound like that's all that's done discipline wise. Each person has to find what works for their own individual family. Some things work for some, and not for others. Eventually, we all get through it and we wonder where the time went
Rylee is starting to calm down now. I am learning the signs of when a tantrum is coming on. I have not spanked her since this post, because she has not needed one. That is a good thing for me. Yesterday, she got on top of our coffe table (which has a glass top) and I told her to get down because she could hurt herself. She just sat there and looked at me. I asked her if she wanted a spanking and she said no and got off immediately. Now she knows what a spanking is, and I just have to warn her. If she doesn't listen, and I do give her a warning, and still doesn't listen then she will get her spanking. Being a Mommy isn't easy, especially when you are still learning
Rayanne, you never STOP learning! Mine are all *grown* and I am still learning. And the older they are, the more mistakes you will think you made in the past. LOL I cannot tell you how many times I've wished (in hindsight) for a board like this one when *my* kids were very young. At least I've learned some things from all you *younger* moms that I can practice with Madison, and pass on to Jules!
I second Karen's statement. You never STOP learning. Every stage of parenthood has challenges and every child is different. We mommies are always second guessing ourselves and wondering if we are doing the right thing. It truly never ends. LOL!
I think spanking is appropriate only if our children simply rebell against a direct order from us. we spank on a daily basis, but my children are improving from it each day and they do not try to hit others. First of all, spanking done appropriately is not hitting my child. I don't slap them in their faces, arms, stomach or backs. we simply switch the back of the thighs and buttocks areas. Our children know without a doubt that we love them. We are very consistent with our discipline and it pays off.
Trying to reason with a toddler or a 5 year old is crazy. My children can try to manipulate to get their way and it just doesn't work like that in our house.
I have smacked my son sometimes, not so much know. But i don't think is wrong. I believe there is a huge difference between hitting and smacking. Just as Breann and Crystal we don't do it on a daily basis and now that he is older we do it less and less, in fact we haven't done it for a quite a while now.
I suppose here in Britain is the same as the US, people look at you badly if you smack your children in public and even if you raise your voice. But i find children here are very disrespectful and naughty (well at least the older children, some are even scary LOL) and i think it's because they treat them like adults when they are 3 yo! or they beat them up! it seems that is either one or the other.
First let me say I agree w/ Breann and all of you to an extent.
Second, let me say I have a very loving and caring child who loves her mom & dad, and everyone for that matter.
Third, let me say, I have to spank her every day just about. She's at that age (21/2 years old) were she thinks she's the boss and not me. I must say that I'm greatful she pretty well behaved out in public. That's due to that we took her everywhere with us from birth and still do.
My duaghter came into the terrible two's late. So I understand what Reyanne is going thru. I spank on the butt or thigh with clothes. But, I do on very rare occassion spank on a bare butt. If I do this it's because I have so totally tried everything and anything I could think of and nothing has worked at all. I do strictly to get her attention and it works. She then gets the pic that Mom is seriuos. I don't initally spank first, I talk to her firmly, if that doen;t work I try raising my voice a little to get to understand what mom says goes. If that doesn't work then I will try a diff thing depending upon the sit. Spanking is usually the thrid or last thing I do.
I find lately when she decides that she wants what she wants, and doesn't want to listen to me if I putt "end of story" at the end of what every I tell her it works to let her no there are no if's, and's, or but's. Exp: "Mom siad no popsicle, end of story. She usually doesn't try to beg/trantrum again.
This is my feelings; like many of the people here I find differant things work not only for diff kids but also for the same kid depned on the sit.
My mil stated it best when she told me that "Raising kids is nothing more then a long line of mistakes". I believe it very much. It just shows that some mistakes or better then others.
Finally, as for spanking the child for hitting me? I say yes, my daughter has only tried it once or twice that I can remember. I basicly told her, you hit me I hit you harder. This is so as she gets older she understand that hitting may only result in her getting hit harder and more if she decides to do that someone else. Better learned at home in a controled enviroment then in school.
The only time my daughter is "afraid" of me is when she knows she did something pretty wrong and she knows she's in trouble. So, is that really being afraid of me? Expeacially since she's such a love-a-bug?
DaisyS
Regarding being 'afraid' - I think the child should be in the sense that they KNOW (because you've proven to them through consistent discipline) that when they are doing something they shouldn't that you will take some kind of action that they will dislike. That may not always be spanking, but whatever the consequence, the child fears that action because they don't like it. A while back there were some posts about cleaning rooms and taking toys away when rooms weren't cleaned and then earning them back. Once this is done, the child then learns 'mom or dad' means business and I'd better clean my room when they ask me to or I'll lose my toys again and I didn't like that. That's afraid to me. It doesn't mean your child fears you every minute of the day or is walking on eggshells...it just means (IMO) that they fear consequences and therefore alter their behavior as a result.
Natalie is almost 12mths and she HATES to hear "no". She knows what things are off limits for the most part because she hears a sharp, firm tone when she hears the word "no" that doesn't sound like any other tone we use. Have I ever hit her, smacked a hand, spanked? No. (Although I'm sure those days are coming ) She's just afraid of that "no" (the consequence right now) and alters her behavior accordingly (most of the time, she does pretty well for her age).
I just offer some help to clean up a messy room if it bugs me. I find a) it sets an example and b) the kids learn to offer me help. If I lay down the law (and I slip and do that on occasion) I get a fight and a poorly cleaned room that wasn't done for any good reason except my say-so. Which, when I'm aiming for things done because they clearly see the value in it, sort of works against my parenting goals.
I just don't get the control and fear thing, however it's packaged. At some point, they get big and it doesn't work.
If you want to control their behaviour, I guess it's good. If you want them to learn to control their own behaviour (and not simply because they fear the consequences), I can't see how it works.
But it takes all kinds and I'm learning that I'm on the fringe somewhere.
I just offer some help to clean up a messy room if it bugs me. I find a) it sets an example and b) the kids learn to offer me help. If I lay down the law (and I slip and do that on occasion) I get a fight and a poorly cleaned room that wasn't done for any good reason except my say-so. Which, when I'm aiming for things done because they clearly see the value in it, sort of works against my parenting goals.
I just don't get the control and fear thing, however it's packaged. At some point, they get big and it doesn't work.
If you want to control their behaviour, I guess it's good. If you want them to learn to control their own behaviour (and not simply because they fear the consequences), I can't see how it works.
But it takes all kinds and I'm learning that I'm on the fringe somewhere.
Sorry for the double post
>>Third, let me say, I have to spank her every day just about.>>
This has been going through my head since I read it. I've heard comments like this before so I'm going to address that comment and not the poster.
The thing is, it's not a 'have to' issue. It's a 'choose to' issue. If that statement were honest it would read, "I choose to spank her every day just about."
A parent chooses how to parent, what issues to press, what issues to drop, how to address discipline. If they spank, that's a concious decision they make. EVERY TIME they spank, it's a deliberate choice. There are other ways to approach parenting and many have nothing to do with spanking or punitive measures. If a person doesn't want to try those, fine. But that doesn't stop measures like spanking from being an active choice.
I know what might be said to defend the 'have to'. She/he defied me. He/she knows the rules and broke them. He/she pushed me too far. He/She gave me no choice. Okay, if that sounds good. But it all sounds like a good way to say, 'He/she made me do it." And though a parent may think a lesson is being taught that's a lot different from what a child actually learns which may be, "She (adults?) has no control over that," or "I'm responsible for her actions." The first may be something a child applies to themselves when they grow up, the last is a really unfair burden to place on a child.
If a parent is going to spank, accept responsibility. Wouldn't it be funny if parents told their kids, "Look. When you do this, I'm going to spank you. There are other methods and different ways I could approach this but I think spanking you would be best. I choose this aproach"
But lastly, if a parent is spanking almost every day...Isn't it time to wonder if just maybe, it's not working?
To each his own.
We spank. We spank when necessary. If necessary means every day then, yes, we spank every day. We've found that it does work but only if we are consistent and do it every time. We have to spank more often if one of us gets lax on the rules and lets Timmy get away with something.
Please note, a spank is just that. It's one swift swat. It's not a beating. It's an attention getter.
I see nothing wrong with it whether it be done in private or public. I've seen way too many children that are just out of control in public. It may not bother their parents or whoever they are with but it bothers me. I should be able to go places without have to deal with someone else's child who cannot behave. (AND I'm not asking for perfection!)
Big ditto to Unschoolmom's last post. Also, Kittycat, you said, "we have to spank more often if one of us gets lax..." You're basically punishing your child because of your error (inconsistent discipline). I really don't see how that is profitable for anyone. If you and DH are getting lax often, Timmy probably isn't misbehaving. He's just very confused about expectations and consequences.
>>If necessary means every day then, yes, we spank every day. We've found that it does work but only if we are consistent and do it every time. We have to spank more often if one of us gets lax on the rules and lets Timmy get away with something.>>
That's the thing though, isn't it? Spanking is just a short term measure. It doesn't address any fundamental problem, doesn't build character or help a child develop any skills for solving problems and making decisions. It just grants the parent control for a short time until the next crisis comes up. It doesn't demand any kind of thoughtful consideration on how to overcome a problem on the part of either the child or the parent.
It's my belief that there's a direct relationship to domestic abuse and spousal abuse that began as spankings when a child. A parent who hits a child is teaching them that it's a way tof express feelings.
If a child learns that hitting/slapping/spanking is the way to vent anger and frustration then there is a very good chance that the child will become an adult who repeats the pattern.
If society wants to try and eliminate wife beating and other violence then please help by showing children a less violent way of getting attention or showing anger.
I'm sorry to sound so preachy but it's a topic that worries me very much!
Lea
I'm not big on spanking by any means, but just out of curiosity, some people said above that they swat hands but not butts. What's the difference? Just curious, not being sarcastic at all.
Oh dear heavens. I'm sorry but I think it is stretching to go from swatting the child on the backside to domestic abuse.
First of all, Timmy does know how to express his emotions 90% of the time and does so without hitting. I do not hit him if he hits me. I spank for inappropriate behavior that is not able to be corrected other ways.
I was spanked as a child. My parents were spanked as children. We don't abuse our spouses or our children because of it.
My husband and I got spankings as a child and we spank now too, and there is no domestic abuse that goes on in our family and there wasn't any in our families growing up either. I don't spank my children to "vent" my anger or frustration. I spank because my child knows that she is doing wrong and being rebellious when she has chosen to disobey our rules. Spanking in the right manner is not wrong. We "only" spank when our child out right rebels against our instructions. I think you have to train your child up to have an obedient heart now. Trying to train a 2 year old is easier done now then when they are 13. I want my children to have respect for my rules and as long as they obey the rules they we set in our house then they do not get spankings. I spank with a "switch" on the back of their behinds, it only stings a bit and doesn't leave any ugly bruises or marks.
I also don't think spanking leads to domestic abuse. I think in the right context spanking can be okay. I was spanked as a child when I did something wrong & always got the line, "this hurts me more than you". I spank my children, but I NEVER spank them when I am angry with them & I NEVER use anything more than my hand, because then I know how hard they are spanked. They don't fear me & I try time outs & taking toys away first.
My dh who is most pacific person i've ever met (and the most generous, loving, beautiful man in every sense) says he was spanked all the time when he was a child. That even when hurting himself his mum would smack first (for not ying attention) and then make the sore better. He says that he doesn't love his mum any less and that he doesn't hold anything against her. Actually, he loves her very, very much and in no way he is resentful of the spaking he received as a child.
I was never spanked when i was a child but that was because i'm the youngest of five and my mum had to go to work so i was more or less raised by my sisters. My older sisters were smacked all the time and they don't hold it against my mum. My mum once asked her paediatrician if it was all right to give a smack in the bum to her daughters and the doctor replied: "you can only smack a child after you have kissed her a thousand times".
I agree with Amanda that there is a huge difference between smacking and beating a child.
It's great to get insight into the different lives of families.
When I said spanking has "a direct relationship" to spousal abuse, I didn't mean to imply that it equals abuse.
What I meant to say is that adults who DO abuse most often (always??) came from a home where spankings/beatings were the accepted norm. It seems to set a precident.
It's kind of weird how the pattern can be repeated and not just with physical abuse. I've known and read of so many adults who grew up in homes where alcohol abuse, sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse etc etc were a hated pattern of behaviour...yet for some strange reason the child often adopts and repeats it when they themselves become an adult.
That's all I was trying to say! Sorry if it sounded like a blanket statement. I was not meant to be.
Lea
I see what you're saying Lea, and this is not in response to you necessarily, but it sounds to me like a lot of people who have responded to this post are using the terms 'spanking' and 'beating' interchangeably and there is just such a tremendous difference.
Also, in the earliest responses to this post, many people said they hit hands but not butts and that seems to be 'okay'. I just don't get the difference, because if someone is against hitting, you're against hitting anything, you know?
I was always spanked as a child and usually it WAS in anger and not in a rational, calculated "this is your consequence" way. I completely disagree with this manner of spanking, but my parents were just like that. I wasn't beaten, I was whipped on the butt with a belt. Did I ever have marks? No. Did it ever hurt more than a sting? No. I think most definitely children who were abused often become abusers or take abuse as adults, but children who were spanked were just that...spanked, no more no less. JMHO
My dh was smacked in the face and hit in the head often for punishment as a child, as well as spanked. I cannot imagine hitting my child anywhere but the butt, but this is how he was raised. He also had very loving, supportive parents that he is close to as an adult and has a lot of respect for. "I" personally consider what he has described to me as his punishments as a form of 'beating', but he is less anger-driven than I am. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's more than just the spanking, it's the love/support/limits/care that you give your child that's going to determine a negative or positive outcome.
Effective parenting is key....... I am pro anything that works effectively with any given child. There are some children that spanking isn't needed on and others that it is. There are times when a spanking is needed and other times when something else would work far better. There is no set punishment that will work on everyones child exactly the same way every time. I have four children. My oldest child would often just need to be spoken to and she would do as she was asked but she has been spanked and she always knew that it was an option. She is 15 and she will tell you that the spankings didn't hurt nearly as bad as she let on. That it was more like a snap back into reality for her than any true fear..... But you see, we surrounded her in love on a daily. She knew I loved her and at my hands she had nothing to fear. She knew, that I didn't spank her when I was angry (I wasn't loosing it while I was spanking her). She knew her limits, she knew what she could do and not do. She made a choice to over steped those boudries and she was spanked. The punishment was over and we went back to our lives. I have no guilt for spanking just like she doesn't carry any guilt for running out in the street, or climbing down the bank into the river (after she had been told to never go over there). She did what she did and I did what I felt I had to do to get it through to her that these kinds of things would bring out a stronger punishment than her telling me no would or her not picking up her dirty clothes would.
People that grow up to be abusive grew up in homes that were not properly parented. They were not dealt out effective punishments as children. You can take a man that was never spanked and take a man that was beaten.. And I bet they have the same possiblity of becoming abusive into adulthood. If neither man was effectively parented then neither have the skills to manage a relationship.......
Spank, don't spank it is a personal choice that should be based off of the child YOU are trying to raise not off of the children everyone around you has raised.
My one child, I could put in a time out and it breaks her heart... The other three, forget about it.... That said, I don't believe anyone set of punishment works on all children.. And I dont believe spanking leads to abusive adults, period.
Bobbie - big DITTO!!! And written so well.
I will second that ditto!
Very well said Bobbie.
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