Ladies we are at a loss as to what to do next. Timmy in the last month has gone down hill quickly. He no longer is good in school. He is ADHD and on Aderall XR 15 mg a day. It was just upped from 10mg to 15mg 4 months ago.

He wants nothing to do with going outside to play or ride his bike and he is always wanting to just sit and watch TV. He has never been this way since the day he could walk. Up until the end of March it wasn't like this. He would beg us to let him out to play even when it was way to cold. He has never really been a TV kid always doing something else while it was on.

He has a color chart at school that tells us how he has been behaving and green is great then yellow, red, blue, black. A normal week through March usually had 1 yellow day and the rest green. But now it is everyday yellow or red and even 1 blue last month. We talk to him and sit him down to find out what is wrong we go at him alone and together as parents to see if he will talk more to one of us than the other and still nothing. I just don't know what else to do.

He doesn't seem to care that he is losing all of his fun things. He lost his TV in his room, his radio from his room, this past weekend he had to stay home with dad instead of going to the race track to watch his Uncle race and if this week is not better he will lose him cub scouts and then his spring-summer soccer. He doesn't seem to care. He is becoming more and more of a smart mouth to me and I am really at a lose as to what to do next.

I have tried talking to his teacher but to be honest she is in over her head even having a 1st grade class. Just graduated in the spring of last yr and treats these kids like they are 5-6 graders instead of first.

Any advice ladies as to what we can do. I just don't know anymore.

By Jann on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 09:20 am:

Has anything happened recently?
Does the change in behavior correlate with the change in his med dosage?

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 09:30 am:

Nothing has happened at home or anywhere else that we know of and his meds were changed 4 months ago this behavior just started the end of March. We have tried to think of everything and the only thing we can think of is it is just him being bad and we don't know why. When I asked him he said he was just horsing and got in trouble at school when I ask why he says just cause.

By Trina~moderator on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 09:46 am:

Lots of questions. Just off the top of my head... How was he diagnosed ADHD? Did the school request meds or was he thoroughly evaluated through testing and consultations with school staff, a child psychologist and your pediatrician, etc.? How is he doing academically? There could be other things involved - a learning disability or perhaps he's not challenged enough. Or it could be something as simple as this particular med isn't working.

By Kaye on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 09:47 am:

No great ideas. But I know for my youngest taking away things never really helps. Have you tried rewarding positive behavior? We started paying for green days ( we never had them..lol) and he has been green for 18 days in a row. Who knew he could be bought??

As for why he is acting this way, could be a number of things. Could be it is just a phase. Could be stressed out, or depressed. Have you thought about counseling with him? My oldest child went to a counselor for sometime and it was really good for her.

As far as the teacher, much much is expected of kids at this age. There is a chance that his colors are changing because her expectations have been raised. By 2nd grade they are expected to sit in their desks and mostly just work all day, there is not time for free play, centers, art, etc. I know our 1st teacher has really stepped it up a notch this past month.

By Lauram on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:06 am:

Well, my son has the same dx (and many more) and is on the same dosage and same medication.

My first thoughts are like Trina- are you sure this is ADHD? I know I always question it myself (and always come back to the same answer- yes, it is), but I think a little healthy skepticism is an order.

Also, the behavior chart sounds awful. In my experience, these children are putting in so much effort into behaving that they need to be positively reinforced not negatively (like that chart). It sounds to me like he may be just "giving up." One of the systems that worked well for my son was a marble system. He recieved a marble in his jar whenever the teacher saw him doing something well.

Also, I'm wondering if the teacher is stressed over him. I know with my son that makes things spiral out of control.

How are his academics? If he is not doing well, I would request a PPT (in writing). If he is doing well, you might want to consider a 504 plan if he needs special accomodations in order to be successful.

I would also recommend looking into counseling- both at school and privately. We do both for my son.

Also, look at this link http://www.hopepress.com/
It has a great book about ADHD. My son's teacher has it (among others) as a reference tool.

One other thought.... Have you tried giving him a vacation from the meds? If so, what happens?

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:14 am:

He was tested extensively in Kindergarten and he is for sure ADHD. I know he is and the meds if he is not on him look out he is just uncontrolable. He has to be on them no breaks allowed.

We have tried rewarding him but it doesn't work.

I am looking into the counseling aspect right now to see what we can do with our awful insurance and then I am going to go from there.

By Reds9298 on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:32 am:

I agree with everything Lauram said, and also that first grade is a HUGE expectation change from Kindergarten. It's so unfair and SOOOOO developmentally inappropriate but it's the way it is unfortunately. All of a sudden they are expected to act like a 12 yr. old instead of a 6-7yr. old!
I've taught lots of kids that sound EXACTLY like your ds and as a teacher sometimes it seems like with a particular child they are just always in trouble....you realize that there's nothing positive for them about coming to school and you have to step back and just try to build or re-build a positive relationship. Almost like a bonding time where the focus is taken off of rules and put more on getting to know each other. Unfortunately first year teachers often don't understand, haven't been educated about positive discipline and are so overwhelmed with the mere act of teaching that they can't help a child like your ds. They just don't have the experience.
What does he like to do? I mean just generally what makes him happy, makes him laugh, what is fun for him?

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:42 am:

Use to it was riding his bike and playing outside. He loves to play soccer and just run run run. And anymore getting him to do any of those things is a chore.

See what really gets me is I honestly think since he has been this way the last 4-6 weeks she is now centering him out for everything that goes wrong so he is getting in trouble for things that he isn't even doing. I have called and left her a few messags last week and another 1 this morning and she has yet to call me back so I also left a message for the principal. If I get nothing I will be there tomorrow when school gets out and she will talk with me. I hate that it is the end of the year when all of this is happening but she has to help me help him or he is gonna have no luck getting through the end of the year.

By Missmudd on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:46 am:

I would try changing the meds to a different RX. I know that when my son was on ritalin there were some definate undesirable behaviors and I believe adderal is ritalin based. We switched him to dexadrine and his concentration and behavior changed dramatically.

By Conni on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 10:56 am:

Tonya, not saying this is the case-- just want you too listen to your mommy instincts. This happened with my ds Brandon when he was in 2nd grade (i remarried in spring of his 1st grade yr, we built new house and moved in 2nd grade, and he had a new baby brother to get used too because I had Blake when he was in 2nd grade too.) OK, long story short-- he was diagnosed ADHD, put on ADDERALL in 2 nd grade. We jacked around with the dosage for 9 months. They even added an ant-depressant to see if that would help. They ended up with the dosage pretty high and he became uncontrollable again and was hallucinating and saying really WHACKED out things.... I took him to a diff doctor at this time and described the previous 9 months, he looked BAFFLED that they had not tried a different medication. He said Adderall is NOT the med for your ds. He immediately took him off of Adderall and changed him to Ridalin. Brandon was SOOO screwed up at this point from the meds that he got kicked out of his school in 3rd grade (middle of yr) and the principal refused to listen to me about the meds not working and didnt want to work with us anymore-- even tho SHE was the one that recommended the first doctors office. I found out from 2nd doc that the original doc we went to is a QUACK. Anyway, we were taking him to counseling and Brandon had an *episode* in his office and had to be restrained yet again.... He suggested I take him to a behavioral therapy hospital (ie: A MENTAL INSTITUTE basically)... I took him there checked him in and they had too take him off ALL of his med's for a few days, watch him, rediagnose him, and re-started med's. Thats when they put him on Concerta and he is in 7th grade now and it STILL works for him...


My point in telling you this terrible story: I KNEW in my heart that the Adderall needed to be taken away completely but I thought these people knew better than I did since they had degrees and were professional's, yadda yadda... I DIDNT speak up for my child when I should have been putting my foot down and demanding they get it right. He ended up in a terrible situation because I listened to a school principal and a quack doctor... BTW--- that principal took early retirement that yr (atleast thats what they said-- my friend tells me she was asked to resign??)... The counselor at my ds school told me that HER ds was on Adderall too and it didnt cause these issues with HER ds... bla bla bla Very frustrating times for me. I get upset telling the story over again. They even insisted that my ds's teacher that yr was an EXPERT in ADHD. According to one of my teacher friends-- that isnt even possible...

Anyway, I am not trying to scare you. Just want you to really look at whats going on, did it get worse after your ds began taking Adderall, etc? My ds became a diff person after Adderall it is OK to try another med when one isnt working. According to my sister's ped. when they put her ds on Adderall he said if it isnt *right* after 3 mos of playing with the dosage then its time to SWITCH and try a new med. The Adderall DID work for him and they have not had to adjust the dose...

By Palmbchprincess on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 11:09 am:

Tonya, I don't have any ADHD experience, or Adderall experience, but it sounds like his dosage/medication is wrong. I've been on anti-depressants before, and when the dose is not right you sometimes stop caring about everything. It numbs you out, you become indifferent to everything around you, good, bad, or otherwise. I know you changed his dose 4 months ago, but many times a reaction to a med isn't immediate. (Again, I don't know anything about Adderall and some of the other moms do, I'm just telling you my gut feeling) Conni has excellent advice, no one knows your child better than you do. Get a second opinion, because it's sounds like overmedicating.

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 11:10 am:

Timmy has been on Adderall for over a year they uped the doasge in January because 10mg was just not enough for him when they uped it to 15 he was back to his normal self again. Good and happy!!And in the last 4-6 weeks he has changed. I in my gut don't think it is the meds. I think it is my son but I don't know why he is doing these things. The teacher is a quack and shouldn't be teaching first grade.

I am waiting for the principle to call me back. I in writing requested allot of tests to be done at school back in February and they have yet to get the results to me. I have had more than enough patience with them and now I am at the point of losing them. I left another message for the principal and teacher this morning someone better hope they call me back.

By Reds9298 on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 11:46 am:

Tonya - First, if you have tried to reach the teacher numerous times with no response, go STRAIGHT to the principal and demand attention, forget leaving messages. If you have to wait in the office 2 hours do it. That is ridiculous. Teh teacher seems to be avoiding you and the problem. Is it possible for him to change classrooms? I know that isn't always the first/best choice, but maybe it would be for him. You never know. She doesn't sound like a good teacher for your son.
Second, you have legal rights regarding testing. In the state of IN, ALL testing must be completed by 45 days from the request. I'm sure there is something similar in your state as well. When you see the principal, demand to know what the results are and if they haven't been completed you want a reason why. Be tactful but firm.
Also, I know from experience with students that even slight changes in medication can make a big difference even when you don't think it would. Sounds like his inactivity and being uninterested in his normal 'fun' things maybe depression? Maybe the up in meds, even though slight, has caused this behavior change. Can you decrease back to original dose and see what happens? Also, although I don't have personal experience with my own child, I think the ladies who have shared their experiences here may be right about it being the wrong medication overall. When was the last time he saw the doc, 4mths. ago?

By Conni on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 11:47 am:

Your ds is in 1st grade... My ds wasnt on any med's in 1 st grade and not been diagnosed with anything. The one thing I remember when I look back is his letter to SANTA that yr read:

Dear Santa,

All I want for Christmas is too have a good day.

Love,

Brandon


I still have it in the attic.

His 1st gr teacher was so bad she wouldnt allow him to make TWO Christmas cards for his divorced parents. She made him choose which parent he was going to make one for. Needless to say he made it out to both Mom and Dad. Smart boy- he knew his Dad and I would share it. After she yelled at me and pointed her finger in my face in the parking lot in front of ds one day after school, the principal refused to allow him to change classes and wanted me to sign permission for them to paddle him. I walked in with a bag packed up his things and we went to a new school. Where he began making GOOD grades, didnt have an hours worth of homework each night, and he got smiley faces on his papers???

Ahhhhhhhhh... we have been thru it now. lol
I feel for you!!!

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 12:53 pm:

I am at the point where if I hear nothing back I will be going into the schoo land waiting to talk to everyone invloved. The problem though with that is I have only been at my job for 45 days I will look bad taking time off already for an unknown time length since I don't know how long it will take.

And Rich doesn't think he should be on meds at all he thinks it is just Timmy be bad and disipline will correct it! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Beth on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 01:04 pm:

Have you spoke to his doctor? Will your insurance pay for him to see a child psychologist? They be the better to monitor his meds. Or at least talk to him and see if he will tell them what is going on. I feel for you and know that this has to be heartbreaking.

By Mommmie on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 01:36 pm:

Adderall XR made my son moody, but not at first. It happened gradually over the year he took it. His doc said it's common for kids to have mood issues on Adderall, even if it doesn't happen at the beginning.

We went to Ritalin LA and the "down mood" went away. He's on Metadate CD now and so far no mood problem.

Also, how's he doing academically? Any evidence of learning disabilities?

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 01:40 pm:

I left a message for his Dr at lunch time the problem is that she is a new Dr to him since our insurance changed on 1/1/05 so she is new to his problem. She is very nice adn very easy to talk to and told me if I thought he needed anything to call her. So I am just waiting for her to call back. I am also waiting to hear back from the insurance lady about the therapist for Timmy.

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 01:43 pm:

He is having a ton of problems with reading and is in after school tutoring which seems to be helping a ton and his writing is AWFUL he goes so fast you cannot read anything he writes. As for the learning disability I am still waiting on teh results of his tsts they were suppose to do and then I will know that also.

By Tonya on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 02:41 pm:

Well I talked to teh teacher, Dr, and principal and the teacher is stupid she called me and every question I asked she gave a blad plain answer for the only thing she could tell me is he is not concentrating and behaving like he was 4-6 weeks ago. That his mind wanders I asked if he was with other people and they were causing problems she said no it was just him and that she treats everyone the same.

The principal is looking into the Child Study testing and the Dr said make an appointment for him to come in so she can talk to him and see if it is his meds or if he needs to see a child psychologist or if it is judt him acting up.

So for now I still know nothing. But I am picking him up from school tomorrow after his tutoring for me, him and the teacher to sit down and talk.

By Cat on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 02:52 pm:

{{{{{Tonya}}}}} I'm not a doctor by any means, but I'd seriously consider changing the med. Sometimes their bodies adjust and they need a change. Some kid's bodies adjust faster than others. Some kids can stay on the same med for years. Robin was on Dexadrine for 2 years before we took him off it for the summer because it wasn't as effective anymore and other behaviors were showing up (ODD, depression). He was a completely different child off the meds! Hyper? Yes, but happy and compliant. We tried several different meds after that and it took almost two years to find the right combo of meds for him. Trialing different meds is NO fun at all, but the right one can be wonderful when you find it! I can tell you Adderall XR was awful for Robin, but he's got more than just ADHD we're dealing with. More hugs. Several of us have btdt (Laura, Conni, and others). We're always here. You can email me anytime. cathyliz @ bigfoot.com (without the spaces) BTW, I'm going to be in Michigan in late June. Detroit is about 3 hours from my mom's house. We could try to plan a get-together. Let me know.

By Feona on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 04:24 pm:

The doctor upped the medication and he became unmotivated?

I have heard of changing medicaition like others have said.

By Amecmom on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 05:48 pm:

Tonya, hugs!
I can't speak about the meds, but I CAN tell you to switch his class. Yes, it may be difficult for him to be with a different group of kids, but that might turn out to be a positive thing.
Have them put him with a good and caring teacher! That may make a huge difference.
Bigger hugs!
Ame

By Annie2 on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 11:01 pm:

No advice, Tonya. Many (((hugs)))) though. I know how hard you work for your family and I'm sure this is tearing you up. You are a very smart, capable woman and a caring, giving, supportive mom. I hope you find some answers soon for Timmy.
We are here for you! Annie

By Tonya on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 07:57 am:

Thanks ladies, Rich and I talked last night we are going to school today after tutoring to talk with the teacher and Timmy together. We cannot switch his teacher because there is only 6 weeks of school left. There is only 1 other 1st grade class in his school and there are more kids in that class than what is in his. He came home with a green day yesterday and was very excited about it. He told me this morning only 4 more in a row to go and he can have his radio and racing back. So hopefully he is turning himself around. We also are going to give it a week and make an appointment with the Dr. I am wondering if part of this is not just the weather too. He is like everyone else they get yucky when the weather is bad. I am hoping that since it is finally suppose to start getting nice that he will have more incentive to go out and play. We have banned all cartoons in our house and as of this morning in my grandparents as well. He is only allowed to watch TV on the weekends and moderately then. If we have it on he can watch with us but no cartoons or things of that nature. He has to be more creative again and this will make that happen.

He went in his room last night and built a fort and then got inside and used his leap pad for 2 hours working on words and math problems. These are the thing he use to do so maybe we are on the right track by killing out the TV.

Keep the prayers coming ladies and thank you for helping, understanding and listening.

By Conni on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 08:05 am:

Let us know how the mtg with the teacher goes!

By Amecmom on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 08:44 am:

Glad to hear you had a good day!
Ame

By Bemerry84 on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 09:08 am:

I too have a 1st grade son, no ADHD no MEDS ==BUT== he has been uncooperative lately too. He loves his teacher (I do too) and when I talked to her she said this is normal for this time of year, as they buckle down on them to get ready for 2nd grade, she is not going to accept any messy papers anymore and if it is not satisfactory they will have to re-do them. I believe there is way too much pressure on these 1st graders now a days, they are expected to learn so much and this time of year are introducing new things in Math (counting money and telling time) and English (consenant blends and compound words) etc. Each time something new is introduced he freaks (thinks he dumb and stupid) until he learns it, then they go onto something else and repeats the cycle. NO WONDER these children can't pay attention and get restless!!!!! Think back to when we were in their shoes, we had phonics and spelling and simple addition and subtraction. I'm glad he's returning to himself!!! We too have cut out the TV during the week and you are correct, they WILL find something to do!! Smart choice. Good Luck.