My dd is 10 years old and in the 4th grade. She has ALWAYS been very picky about her work, especially art work in that she wants it just a certain way. She is also this way in her school work, but it doesn't seem as bad as the art work. Anyway, it really has never been an issue until this year. With the 4th grade testing they do this year, they are really flying through the work so that it is all covered before the take the big mandated tests. She brings homework home and lets say it is a Math paper that should take 20 minutes to do. She will take at least 30 to 40 because not only does she do the work, but she rechecks everything to make sure it is right!! It takes her so long to do homework because of this. It feels like we are at homework for HOURS every night. They are making a pop up book in Social Studies and tonight, she is to make 48 little pop up things to put in it. The girl is drawing police cars and going into so much detail that there is no way she is going to get this done. I do agree that this is allot for one night in the fact that even if they spent only 2 minutes on each one, we are looking at 96 minutes, but she isn't going to get any where near done. How do you pick up the pace on stuff like this? I don't want to teach her that it isn't important to take your time and do your best, but there has to be a happy medium here. How do you teach speed?? Is there anyone out there that is going through this too???

By Kay on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 06:13 pm:

I'm one of those former 'perfectionist' children. My first grade teacher recognized it, but not for what it really was - I have obsessive/compulsive disorder. Not all perfectionistic children have OCD - my OCD is not in rewashing hands, etc., but in 'checking' things to make sure they're done correctly. I'm the one who MUST go back to see if I closed the garage door, I was the one who HAD to check each answer at least twice before handing in a paper.

If she's not like this with every other aspect of her life, then there's a reason she's doing this - has she always been this with her work, or do you think there is undue pressure on her to succeed? I hate mandated testing - it does nothing to help the child learn, and only frustrates them.

By Vicki on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 08:09 pm:

She has been this way since pre-school, so it is nothing new. I would say it is mostly school that she is this way with. I don't feel that we put extra pressure on her at all. She knows we expect her to try her best, but that even a bad grade is ok if it was the best she could do. I have told her over and over that all a bad grade means is that you need a little more practice in that subject. Now, I will say that she is a very bright child and rarely gets bad grades, but once in a blue moon she does. Report cards for the past 2 years have been all A's. Never anything lower than a B on a report card. This year has been harder than any other year for her and she has had to really study hard to get the A's this year. Up until now, she could just go to school and get an A it seemed. LOL Does that give you any more insite into her??? I would not say she is OCD at all. You should see her playroom!! LOL That is just a little joke!

By Vicki on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 08:57 pm:

I guess what I am asking is..is there a way to get her to pick up her pace. Finish her work and if there is time, go back over it and re-check it if she feels it is necessary. How do I get her to move faster?? I will say that part of her happens at home too. It can take her 10 minutes in the morning to brush her teeth!! I don't know how to explain it!! LOL There has to be someone who knows what I am talking about! LOL

By Palmbchprincess on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 09:44 pm:

I'm not sure if this will work, but can you reason with her? Tell her that she should trust her instincts, there isn't a need to re-check things? I only mention this because it will cause her BIG problems in standardized tests. I always scored very high on standardized tests, but didn't always have wonderful grades. A lot of that is because I worked quickly without second-guessing my answers. Think about the SATs, some people FREAK over them, and beat themselves up over every answer. I scored 200+ points higher than my A student best friend, because she didn't trust herself. Maybe you can have "time" tests, give her little quizzes to do at home as fast as she can, and see how she does. If she does well, she'll learn to trust her knowledge. (Honestly, I can't really remember what it's like to be her age, my sis is a bit younger than her and uses a stress ball during tests) As far as projects, maybe use a timer? Tell her to spend 15 minutes on something, then *ding* time to put it down. The more you stare something, the worse it looks to you, and you keep re-doing it.

By Kay on Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - 10:14 pm:

My perfectionism never caught on as far as my keeping my room neat as a child! In fact, that was one area that I seemed to 'let go' of - I seemed to want to control only certain things...some unrealistically. Neither my parents nor my teachers ever placed pressure on me - learning came quite easy, but in my mind I second-guessed some things, so I would double-check them.

You would be surprised at how many people go through things like this on a daily basis. We're not all as bad as "Monk" on TV, and many of us hide our 'checking' very well.

The only thing I wish now is that more was known about it in the 60's, because I was embarassed about it - my parents believed I could just 'stop'...they didn't know that there was an absolutely uncontrollable urge inside of me that made me feel compelled to double check those answers or else feel like I was going to come out of my skin.

By Kaye on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 12:12 am:

My daughter is in 5th grade. We were there last year too. She actually struggled so much that we ended up testing her and turns out she is ADD. What I had to do was this, I asked her, do you really think your teacher will look at every thing? And I would tell her that sometimes our best work is what we need, but other times we need to get it done, where does this fit. I would have to sit and help her move on. A timer works great for us. I found this is one of her attention issues, she can't focus on the end like most kids and gets stuck in one spot. ADD is not just lack of attention like most people think, rather an inappropriate attention, too much or too little. Not saying this is where your child lies, but for us it was an answer. There were lots of other things that went with it. But this is a tough year, teachers expect more and want it independantly. 5th grade has been so much better though!

By Lauram on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 05:15 am:

I have one of these kids!

By Feona on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 05:37 am:

Ds is like that. It is a real problem because he is just turned five. He can cry at school if he makes a mistake with his art isn't right. We are really working on

Look you can fix anything and who cares if you make a mistake.

My husband is like a perfectionist... Thank goodness because he is an engineer (imagine a engineer who isn't perfectionist ooopss... sorry I made a mistake with that bridge... only 50,000 died though...)

By Vicki on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 07:41 am:

Well, so far none of what anyone is saying seems to fit dd. They have taken some sort of standardized test every year since 1st grade and she always scores very high. She even tested high enough to enter the gifted program, but we didn't put her in it. Long story short, the gifted program at the Elem. level at our school sticks. Might look into it next year in middle school, but didn't think the benefit of it at the elem level out weighed the time out of the classroom. So testing isn't the issue. Her mind doesn't seem to wonder, it just can take her a long time to complete SOME tasks.... I am now wondering if she is just tired from working at school all day and then having some much homework that she is just pooping out and that is why it is taking her so long? She doesn't have a problem completing work at school?? Once in a blue moon she will bring something home that she didn't get done that she needs to finish, but her teacher said that happens with all the kids....

By John on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 09:54 am:

Perfectionist tendencies is often a trait of a gifted children.

http://familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,23-7971,00.html

http://www.gifteddevelopment.com/Articles/Characteristics_Scale.htm

What didn't you like about the gifted program at her school?

Gifted children are often looking for a challenge in their school work that they can't find.

The behaviors you describe may be her attempt to make what she considers boring work more interesting.

By John on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 10:18 am:

This article on nursing giftedness may also be of interest:

http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/nuturing_giftedness.html

By Vicki on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 11:03 am:

The gifted program at our school pulls the kids out of class a few days a week for about 30 miniutes each time. They go to a seperate area and work on things that are unrelated to what they are even doing in class. Then, those kids miss out on what is going on in the class they were pulled out of. There are some things that the kids do that just can't be made up. Science experiments and things like that. Even basic things that the teachers might add to the lessons being read/taught in the class. Then they either have to come in from recess or take the extra work home that they missed in class. Well, that just doesn't appear to be a good program in our eyes. It just isn't worth it for her to miss so much in class to be pulled out for 3o minutes a session. Now, if we were a large enough school to have a gifted class...I would have put her in there in a heart beat.

By Trisa on Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 07:11 pm:

My son is like this. It drives me CRAZY!!!
It takes him at least 2 hours to do his
homework each night. He is in the 5th grade.
Everything has to be prefect and he even asked
me once if college will see the grades he
got in 5th grade! He is a smart boy. I just keep telling him that he can't be perfect and that I
will love him no matter what. he was very upset this year because it was the very first time he got a B on his report card.

By Andyjoy on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 03:36 pm:

My sister, my mom, and I all have varying degrees of perfectionism and have found different ways to compensate. Hopefully one of our coping techniques will help you!

I was the type who would cry if I got a B on a test, even if I had the highest grade in my class and my parents were ecstatic! I had an internal drive for perfection that was never placed on me by any adult or peer. For me, the frustration was caused by KNOWING that I knew the information and could have done better but I had just "slipped up" at the crucial moment.

One thing that helped me was having a limited time to do my work. Procrastination actually worked for me (I wouldn't recommend it for most people) because I couldn't agonize over my work and redo it over and over if I only had X amount of time to do it. In high school, I would formulate the thoughts for my papers ahead of time, but I would to most of the writing in 2-3 days, because otherwise I would rewrite and rework it so many times that I would actually have nightmares about my paper being "not right."

If your daughter does well on tests in a timed situation, you could set a timer for homework assignments like math and science. Give her a generous amount of time, but still less time than she would have taken on her own. Gradually you could reduce the time as it begins to work. Focus on what activities you can do after she's done, such as reading together before bed, watching a TV show, etc.--things she can't do if she works on homework until bedtime. Unless there is some extenuating circumstance, you could make sure that her bedtime is inflexible. This is especially important when she's a perfectionistic teen, because she's likely to want to pull all-nighters which will be terrible since teens need so much sleep to grow, develop their brains, and just not be irritable and cruel!

I needed to learn that schoolwork was not my whole life, and that there were so many other things you need to enjoy outside of school. Maybe you could talk to her about people who are workaholics, who spend so much time making sure that they please their boss, make deadlines, get things perfect etc. that they neglect their families, sleep, spiritual lives, and relaxing outside activities. Maybe you could make a little joke about her being a "schoolaholic" saying you would like to spend more time together as a family, with her alone, and doing hobbies together but working too long on school is interfering.

My sister was very gifted in art and writing. In 3rd grade, she would spent HOURS on one small poster for school that other kids spent 30 min. on. Her perfectionism got to the point that she got a D in history because she didn't turn in 12 assignments that weren't up to her standard of perfection! That was when my parents started coming up with techniques to help her.

In her case, she had ADD and was a procrastinator, so part of her problem was expecting perfection under pressure. My parents made her keep and assignment book, and helped her budget her time for large projects. She once drew a picture of a dragon, and had a week to do it, so they helped her break it down into smaller chunks: outline Mon., do head Tues, wings Wed., etc.

Another thing that really helped her was having an outlet outside of school for her creativity, so that she didn't feel so compelled to make every little school project a work of art. We took an art class in a small group of 5 that was very relaxed. The teacher let us work on our projects for as long as we wanted, so she felt no pressure and ended up being happier with her work. My mom also gave her a sketch pad, colored pencils, and chalks so that she could spend hours on her own drawing. This really helped her to get through schoolwork faster, because she had an exciting creative expression to look forward to!

Good luck! Overcoming obsessive perfectionism is possible--I've done it. I don't think being perfectionistic in itself is bad--it leads to a strong work ethic, pride in a job well done, etc. It's when it consumes and controls you that it is a problem.

By Tink on Friday, February 4, 2005 - 08:19 pm:

Andrea has some great ideas. I was/am a perfectionistic of the "don't do it if it isn't perfect" variety and I wish I'd learned some of the techniques she suggested earlier in my life. Best of luck! It's hard to be one of these kids and tough to be a parent of them, sometimes.