My 9 and 5 year old girls' constantly argue and fight, dob on each other and try to get the other in trouble. I know this is pretty much a normal thing, but this phase has been going on for a couple of years. Both my brothers moved away from home early and I don't have a sister, so I'm not really sure how the close sibling thing works. It worries me mostly because I know they love eachother very much and it kills me to see them behave with such hatred and anger for a young person. Can anyone give me a clue?

By Karen~moderator on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 07:55 am:

This sounds like a thread for Melanie!

By Fionadeassis on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 08:31 am:

Me and my sister were 2 years apart and fought a lot growing up....but we still played together like crazy.

When we were in our teens and early 20s we didn't even speak or see eachother except at family functions.....

When I was about 24 we started to hang out and talk again.

The one thing I hated my mom doing was making me play with her or take her with me to play with my friends. I really resented that and I still don't think it's fair.

Do they have their own rooms? What do they fight about? I would try to give them as much space and time apart as I could.....then maybe they would appreciate the time that they do spend together.

Me and my sis fought way more at times we when we were sharing a room. We also fought over the tv a lot and when we were doing dishes together(my sister once broke a dishrack over my head!ouch!)

Now we are best friends and talk every single day.

By Eve on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 10:10 am:

Oh gosh, I dragged my sister by her hair on her Birthday! (She reminds me! LOL!) We are wonderful fiends now and talk all the time. I would just encourage them to work some problems out by themselves. They do love each other and chances are they won't fight forever.

By Karen~moderator on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 10:16 am:

ROFL Eve!!! Sorry, couldn't resist!

By Melanie on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 10:41 am:

LOL Karen...I wish I had a magic Love and Logic cure!

I really don't have advice for this one. But the book that does come to mind is Seven Habits of Highly Effective families by Steven Covey. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0307440850/002-9674805-4883218?v=glance) It won't solve your problems, but it will give you tools on how to work through them. It's an amazing book with great tips. Good luck!

By Trina~moderator on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 11:42 am:

I've read a couple sibling books but the titles don't come to mind right now. The biggest advice I got from them is what Eve suggested above - to allow them to work things out on their own as often as possible. YES, there will be times when it's necessary to step in but it's best not to enter into their conflicts if possible. Also, don't compare them against one another. This is a common downfall for parents. It sets them up for sibling rivalry. For example, "Why can't you (insert whatever) like your brother/sister?" I'll see if I can find those books.

By Tink on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 12:00 pm:

My kids don't fight constantly but when I notice that they are snapping at each other more often than usual, I try to give them as much space as possible. One kid can watch tv for half an hour, one can be in the kitchen helping me and the other has to be playing quietly in his or her room. Usually, they get bored without each other quickly and within an hour or so, they are asking to play together again.

By Jelygu on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 12:55 pm:

My sister and I fought CONSTANTLY. It was horrible. I once ran her over with my bicycle (while she was wearing her favorite dress) and she has smacked me in the back of the head with a school book. We were so mean to each other that my mom thought we must hate each other.
But when someone picked on my sister, you better watch out! LOL
Anyways, my sister and I are close now. I even let her move in with my family for awhile so she can pay off some bills. I think all kids go through this, and they will eventually work things out themselves. Just give them time to be apart, and like Trina said, never compare them to each other.

Good luck, I hope they calm down for you!

By Dawnk777 on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 03:25 pm:

I hated when my parents compared me to my sisters! Ugh! I really try not to do that with my own kids.

By Colette on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 04:10 pm:

My sister and I fought constantly growing up. She hit me in the head once with a clock. But she also hit someone upside the head with her metal lunchbox when the local bully was picking on me - the bully was in 6th grade, I was in 4th and my sister was a first grader...We get along fine now.

It may be that your older daughter needs time away from her little sister. Does she have her own room? When my oldest got that way, I knew she felt badly for taking it out on her sister, so I told her if she felt like she needed time alone to tell me and I would make sure her siblings stayed away.

By Marcia on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 05:13 pm:

I have 5 girls, and 2 of them fight constantly. My oldest, 11, doesn't like to spend time with my 9 year old. I think the reason is, the 9 year old is very independent, and can't be talked into doing what she doesn't want to do. She can talk the 8 year old into almost anything. It's tough on the 9 year old, because she feels hurt and left out. I try to pull them together to facilitate some positive communication about what's going on. I think it might help them to understand a bit more, although it's never really changed anything much. I know they'll grow up and out of this stage, but it's tough when they're in it!
If you find the magic solution, pass it on!

By Karen~moderator on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 06:15 pm:

Melanie, I mean this sincerely, I wish you had been my age, and I had known you when I was raising all my kids. You've been a wealth of information and advice that *I* think is wonderful, and I have quoted you and recommended and bought books for Jules that YOU recommended here.

I told Jules about Love and Logic and she bought a couple of the books. Also, I just bought 123 Magic and also How to Talk so Kids will Listen & Listen so Kids Will Talk by Faber & Mazlish for Jules. Last year I got her 2 Gavin Debecker books. I'm going to read these last 2 and then give them to her.

By Melanie on Thursday, January 6, 2005 - 07:04 pm:

Aw Karen, you just made me blush! Thank you so much for saying such nice things. I usually feel like I am going on too much about Love and Logic. Thank you for saying it has actually helped. I want you to know that I have a great deal of respect for your opinion as well. You are one of the mom's on the board I think of as an old friend even though we've never even met.

Gosh, I read 123 Magic ages ago. I think it was the first parenting book I latched onto and really liked. I think Alec was probably 2 when I read it. My goodness, time sure does fly!

I'd love to hear what Jules thinks of Love and Logic. For me, it's a good fit and it makes sense. I always like to hear how it works for others.

Thanks again for the post. You really made my night.

By Hillsmum on Friday, January 7, 2005 - 02:58 am:

Wow, thx for the advice guys, Ill definately take it all on board. It sure sounds like a few of you really had some doozies with your sisters, but like you all say, you always love eachother.
We had to put the girls' in the same room about a year ago now, so the space thing would be a big factor, I hadn't thought of that. Plus, as much as they argue, they play together and Brooke sticks up for Drew when she needs help. It'd be nice to have the perfect TV family though.

By Ginny~moderator on Friday, January 7, 2005 - 06:20 am:

With my three, it was very simple in handling it. If you can't behave civilly, you go to your room. If two of you or three of you are being uncivil, you both or all go to your rooms. I'm not listening to explanations or excuses, no "but Mom, I didn't do anything" or "all I did was". You are being uncivil and discourteous in your behavior, you know what you are doing, and you are going to your room until you can be civil. You don't have to love your sibling, you don't even have to like your sibling. But I'm the mom and in my house people either treat each other with courtesy and a minimum of respect or leave each other alone - or spend a lot of time in their rooms. Your offense is not against your sibling, it is against me because you are creating an unpeaceful atmosphere in my house.

And, they had books and a radio in their bedrooms. No TV, no computer, no games, no toys. So read, listen to the radio, and get really, really bored.

Since they are in the same bedroom, I suggest you find other, separate places for time outs - and tell them that since they are behaving like babies you are giving them timeouts just like babies. Don't put one in their bedroom and one somewhere else - that will let the one not in the bedroom scream "not fair". Find separate, boring places for each of them. Like maybe the kitchen table for one and the basement stairs (or a chair in the living room but NO TV) for the other.

I expect siblings to have problems with each other - heaven knows my brother and I did. And I don't expect them to be buddies with each other until they get to be fairly adult - my brother and I never became buddies, in fact. But I expect to have a reasonably peaceful atmosphere in my house. I didn't go into the details of who did what to whom or what the provocation might have been - just stop it now or go to your rooms (or the timeout location).

I had very strong behavioral expectations of my sons, especially being civil and courteous to each other and to me no matter what was going on, and I enforced those expectations. Each of my sons has come back, shortly after leaving home, to express their appreciation for being taught how to behave and to say that it has served them well in the world. The son whose friends had the most tolerant parents - the ones whom he held up to me as examples when saying "but none of my friends have to" or "all my friends get to" - told me specifically that his friends didn't know how to behave in the "real" adult world and he did, and it has served him well.

By Trina~moderator on Friday, January 7, 2005 - 08:52 am:

I found one of the books I referred to above.
Siblings Without Rivalry by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish.

While on the topic, this is also an interesting read -
The New Birth Order Book by Dr. Kevin Leman

By Hillsmum on Sunday, January 9, 2005 - 04:08 am:

Thnx for the books Trina, I'll check them out. Defeinately the Siblings without rivalry.