Immature mom, incapable of making important decisions
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive January-June 2005:
Immature mom, incapable of making important decisions
I live in London and my son was attending one of the local state schools. The school is not very well off but was getting better since they tried to close it in 1998. My son started when he was 3 and a half in the nursery, moving then up to reception class and onto year one (at five). He was happy and doing well. I wasn't too happy because I felt that we didn't have a social life after the school. He rarely (three times in three years) got invited to someone else's house, and it took a lot of time to be friendly with people.
Also I found that there weren't many parents that participated in school fetes and bazars. And it wasn't one of the best performing schools either. However, it has a wonderful headteacher who has turned the school around since it was about to close, and it is slowly, slowly bringing it up. Apart from other good things which i will come back later.
Nevertheless, i decided to change him to a better performing school in which i know people and i am even friends with. This is a good school, with lots of more resources and more parents participating in it.
He started in September (he didn't want to,but came back happy the first day). However, there is this boy who also attended my son's old school two years ago, so they know each other. This boy is a bully, has many problems at home and even has a social worker for him at school. I really pitty this boy but he is taking it out on my son and bothers him every day. Even more, the children of the people we know already have their own network and my son is finding it hard to get in.
My son is a very sweet, very funny 6 year old who was liked by everyone in his old school, by many friends and is starting to be liked by teachers in his new school. He is usually very popular and has never had problems making friends.
My partner would hate me if I say i want to change him back to his old school, and even my son doesn't want to go back but i am mortified with guilt and do not know what to do. I also miss some of the teachers who really liked us and were very sad to see us leave (a case of not knowing what you have until you loose it).
It is just so sad to think that I changed my son from a school that he was happy in to a school in which he is finding it difficult to make friends. I know it is all my fault for being so snobbish, thinking i wanted the best for my child (a better school apparently) and now i do not know what to do. I feel I lost the opportunity to do something worthwile by walking away from his old school instead of staying put to try to help much as i could. I also feel i let my son down for not thinking of him first. But now he says he's happy, and do not want to make him unhappy again, just because i feel guilty and want to feel better about myself. Does anyone understand how i feel or has been in this situation? I don't mind if you want to tell me that i am immature and selfish because you are probably right. I just want to tell someone because although my partner is very understanding, i don't think he wouold take this very well.
First, Maria, welcome to Momsview. We don't have many members from the United Kingdom, and our school systems are very different, so our perspectives may differ. Still, I think you will find many parents here who will share your feelings and offer support.
The first thing I want to say is, stop beating yourself up. One of the things that comes with parenting is guilt - guilt for "if I had only" - and we all share that. I know I do, and I've been a parent since 1961 so I have had lots of opportunity to build up a really big load of guilt.
Second, your reasons for changing your son's school were good ones. You wanted him to be in a better performing school (which, I assume, would help him to receive a better education) and a school where there would be more opportunities for socialization - both very good reasons. Was there a bit of snobbishness - maybe, I don't know. I do know that there is a much greater sense of "class" (social level) in England than in the U.S., which is a pity, but that's the way it is. Given that fact of life, it would be a poor parent who would not take that into account. Especially given your system of "A" level tests, for which good preparation is absolutely necessary and which are such a critical factor in the opportunities for higher education.
Third, the school change was made in September, a bit over three months ago. It is very difficult for a new child to be accepted into existing groups, and three months is a short time period. Don't expect instant miracles, because they don't happen.
As for the bully, that is a shame. And it would happen anywhere but it happened in the new school you selected for reasons which you now think had to do with your own wishes rather than your desire to have things better for your son. Can you talk with the boy's social worker? I don't know how your schools work, but some schools here pay better attention to the issue of bullying since Columbine and other school tragedies (though not as many as should - read another thread on this board about bullying). Still, can you talk to anyone in the school about this. One problem with a situation like this is that if there is adult intervention that is a one-time thing and not consistent, the bully often takes it out on the selected victim, so you have to be very careful about this.
Bottom line, you say your son says he is happy. Why not take him at his word, observe him and what is going on in his life and how he is behaving and see if he is indeed happy most of the time. If he is, I'd leave things alone I certainly would not change schools again so soon unless his present situation is truly intolerable - that would almost certainly be very difficult for him. Especially if you are making the change to assuage your own feelings of guilt.
My advice, give it time, keep a good eye on things, and see if there are reliable resources to help with the bullying issue. And see if you can find resources to help your son cope with the bullying on his own.
Thank you Ginny, you are right, i have been thinking all day and it seemed such a difficult situation but in the end is not a tragedy. Like you said it would be a mistake to change him again just to make ME feel better. I need to learn to let go and stop feeling guilty. At the moment, changing him from school seemed like a good idea, actually the best one. I just need to remember that i had good reasons to change him and that he is happy now.
His father is of the idea that he has to learn to deal with situations like this on his own. In his new school they are very tough about bullying and will not tolerate it, his teacher knows about it and she is trying to handle it. Also we try to teach him to stand up for himself and all that. He has many other friends and eventually, like you said with time he will integrate into the school.
Thank you for your words, they came into the right time. I was just really mortified and could't keep it out of my head. It is just that sometimes i feel too young to be making these kind of decisions and wish it was easier.
On the whole we are, thank God a very happy family and that gives my son a little bit of confidence in himself to carry on with his life.
Thanks again, Ginny.
Maria
Welcome to Momsview, Maria! What a tough situation to be in. I really do feel for you. Just the fact that you are so concerned over this shows that you are doing your best as a mom. And I applaud you for that. There are many mothers who wouldn't even take an interest in their child's academic and social progress, let alone actually take action.
I agree with Ginny - give this school some time. See how things work out. He will likely form some strong friendships over time, and with the school's policy of no tolerance for bullying, hopefully the problem with this bully child will subside.
I would certainly say that you do not sound like an immature mom. Rather the opposite, you sound like a devoted, intelligent mom - trying to do the best for her son. It sounds very selfless of you to me.
Once again, welcome to Momsview. Hopefully, you will find it to be a "home away from home", a place where you can come to vent, find support, ask questions, and make some lifelong friends. You have found a very special place, Maria! Welcome!!! 
Welcome, Maria! I don't have much to add to the wonderful posts above, just that your son is still very young, which means he is still highly adaptable. As stated above, I think a little time will do wonders, and in a year or so, he may be the most popular boy in the school! It sounds like you made the right decision, and your intentions were good, so don't be too hard on yourself. You'll find that's a popular theme around here...as mom's we are always making mistakes, second guessing ourselves, etc. Luckily, children are made to be raised by HUMAN parents!
Thanks Amy and Michele,
Very reassuring words, probably want i needed to read! I am happy i have found his space and hope to be be helpful to someone one day as you have been to me today.
All the best,
Maria
Maria, the question of teaching a son to "stand up for himself" is a tricky one, and one I struggled with as the mother of three sons. I found the best thing was a combination of learning to ignore verbal bullying, keeping authorities informed if they are willing to be on top of it (and it sounds like your son's school is), and some form of karate. Wait - real proper karate teaches a lot of mental/emotional attitudes, not the least of which is don't be the person to start trouble and don't use karate skills as an offensive weapon. My oldest son is a very non-violent person and was having real problems with bullies, and cried to me - Mom, I just can't hit someone, even if they are hitting me. But when I reminded him of his karate lessons, he realized he could use the blocking techniques to keep other people from hurting him without hurting them back. It was wonderful - the next day he came home from school and said Mom, they kept trying and trying and they couldn't hit me and they just gave up in disgust and walked away.
Good for your son! He must have felt proud of himself.
That is not a bad idea actually.
There were some judo lessons near my house, i don't know about karate but i can find out and we could give it a go.
Thanks again!
Maria
I think karate may be better, but you want an instructor who teaches the traditions as well as the moves. And it is important that your son learn all the ways of dealing with bullies, not just physical ways, and the physical ways should be the last thing he tries, not the first.
Oh, by the way, you describe yourself as "Immature mom, incapable of making important decisions". I repeat - don't beat up on yourself. It is always a learn on the job situation, being a mom. And it is hardest with the first child (poor first children - they are our practice children).
I know, i sounded like a British tabloid newspaper, i just wanted to get someone's attention because the subject was driving mad!
I do feel overwhelmed with the amount of responsibility i have to deal with. I need to be a "grown up" now and sometimes it feels a bit scary because it is not only me now but three of us. However i feel capable most of the time or at least that is what i think. I am blessed with a wonderful family and pray everyday that i don't mess it up and that is what keeps me going.
Maria
Maria,
I haven't got any advice on the subject, but I agree with Ginny about not being so hard on yourself. I often feel less than adequate in my parenting abilities, and like I need to "grow up". Most of us who had our children young (I was 19) can probably say the same!
From a teacher's standpoint, it's VERY VERY VERY hard on kids to move them from school to school. Not only emotionally but academically. I've seen a lot of kids suffer academically because they were switched. Like they said...give it some time. ;-)
It's good that the teachers know about the bullying too and maybe you can talk to some of the other parents and possibly invite them to do something (their sons with your son). He can get active with those kids even if you think they are a tight knit group...that way, he doesn't feel so alone and they also might help him stand up to this boy.
Karate idea- good...very good...my brother used to get beat up all the time (because he had red hair of all things) and once he took karate, word got around that he was pretty good and boys never touched him after that. It also teaches discipline, which is something I think everyone needs?
Thank you all for your words,
Maria
Sorry, i think the last message was incomplete i think i pressed the wrong key!
Thank you Heidi,
I have been thinking a lot since I first posted my worries. I do not know how is it in the US but we live in London, which is a very big city and also a bit agressive. I know it takes time to make friends and i am sure my boy will make some eventually, but living in a big city, relationships are very hard to maintain.
Over the 9 years we've lived here we have made good friends but for children is different, there is no consistency in their relationships as they don't see each other every day.
We've had some friends over (from his new school) and he has been invited over as well.
When I changed him to his school i saw (at least superficially) that parents that I knew got together sometimes to make their children play. But is not consistent, it happens sometimes and as i said before because we live in a big city, every family keeps to themselves.
This is probably a complete different subject but it has been on my mind for quite some time. I come from Mexico and my partner comes from Italy so we can see the differences between cultures. There is little outdoor space for children to play and when there is, there is no one to watch over them. Even in big estates where children have playgrounds to play and it is quite safe for them to be on their own, children become agressive to each other and to passers by. We do spend a lot of time in the local parks (weather permitting) and meet with friends and there are other things we do to compensate for the lack of space.
I am sorry, it is probably the winter that brings out every single bad thing about this city. I know there are many good things about London like the way culture is everywhere around you and it is very accessible. It is very vibrant and exciting but for childhood i still think that nothing beats playing with friends everyday after school knowing that there is always a mum to look after you children. I would love to give that to my son. (not an easy option as it would involve moving to another country!)
Thank you again,
Maria
Maria - First, Hello from another part of the Commonwealth! I'm over in Canada.
Might there be a way to get in touch with moms of similar aged kids in your area? A local shop to post a notice of a play group or something? If you could find a few other moms you meet at each others houses, let the kids play and have a cup of coffee.
In the future, I'd say stick with a school your son is happy with (And no, switching him wasn't a bad thing to do, it was the best thing you could think of to do for him at the time). I've heard of a few studies lately that suggest what really makes the difference between schools (how they perform) isn't money or teachers or style...It's parental involvement. And in individual cases, children can do very well in 'bad' schools if they have the full support of their parents.
Of course, since I homeschool my kids, I HAVE to put in a plug for that! In a city like London I can just imagine the fun my kids and I could have with our days free of school. The museums, the galleries, the bookstores! Ah, I'm jealous now. In a city like London I imagine there would be quite a large homeschooling community too and if you could plug into that, there'd be a lot of opportunities for you and you son to meet friends. I know homeschooling is not what you asked about but I thought I'd toss it out there in any case.
>> His father is of the idea that he has to learn to deal with situations like this on his own. <<
Some thoughts for his father...
As for that, no good. If you went to work everyday to be faced with a fellow employee who insulted you, pushed you around, made your job impossible, wouldn't you expect your employer to help you deal with it? In school, the burden of responsibility of teachers and parents to protect a child is even higher because we make them attend. We don't give them any option to simply leave that situation.
There's also the point that he's just a kid. He doesn't have the experience, skills or means to properly address the situation. It's like tossing a kid into a lake to teach them to swim. Maybe he'll learn to dogpaddle but he may also never go close to water again. Support that kid, stay beside him and show him what you know and he'll swim with joy.
I was bullied all through junior high. I was essentially on my own when it came to dealing with it. All that taught me was to be quiet, compliant and easier to bully. If a teacher had ever stepped in to support me, if my parents had ever kicked up a fuss with the school, I might have learned it was wrong and been able to learn from them about how to deal with it.
The odd kid learns "to deal with situations like this on his own", the majority of bullied kids learn simply that the adults in their life seem to condone and even approve of the bullying.
I was just writing a very long message and i lost it! It was for Dawn. Some of the things i was writing i already wrote about in the message above Dawn's. I agree with many things Dawn says but i have to go now, i'll come back later.
Maria
I know this is a very old post, but i wanted to give an update. My son is doing very well in his new school. His academic progress has been very good and his reading has improved immensely. I am very happy with this fact and so is his teacher (who by the way is a great teacher). The bullying issue has been dealt with and the bully has so many problems at home that he has been missing a lot of days from school. There is another new boy in my son's class so the teacher asked my son to take care of him.
He is quite outgoing and wants to make friends with everybody and he has been quite succesful at that. Children know his name in the playground and he comes home and talks about the children in his class. So far so good.
I am also better now. I am trying to get more involved and went to a PSA (parents/school assciation meeting) and offered to help with the fundraising. However, i think i will always feel that i could have done something more for the old school. Offered to volunteer more (i always did some volunteering but they were not as organised as the new school so i didn't know how to go about it). In this new school, it is thanks to the parents that got together that the school is where it is now. It has done lots of fundraising for things like a new sports building and are more organised at parents get- togethers. I wish i had had the experience then or that i would have done my research little better because at the end, the old school was not a bad school, only that it had less resources and less middle class "pushy" parents (i know, it is such a big issue in the UK, but there are many studies that prove it) to get involved and help the school go forward. My son's old school is an improving school with lots of talented teachers doing their best efforts to teach children in a less than ideal situation.
Anyway, the decision has been made (for the better i'd like to think) and i have to get on with it. I have to confess that i (still) feel disloyal specially to my own social convictions. I could have been more patient and given more to the school. I feel that i made the wrong decision (although with good parental motives) because i know (and Dawn mentioned it too) that it is not the resources or the teaching of a school that makes attainment levels go up but mostly parental involvement ( and i certainly do that with him).
Nevertheless, as a good note my partner has supported me all the way, which is a very good thing because i generally trust his instincts more than mine. It was my idea to change our son from school but he agreed and now he is very happy with the new school. He pointed out that the old school although good, it wasn't as good and organised as this one. He went in one day and said that all the children were quielty doing their work and that pleased him very much, also he is very happy with the way his learning has improved.
So there. I do feel better now and less guilty. I know i have to get on with it and make the most of it. My son will definetely benefit from better academoc levels and more resources and he is making friends that he can see after school, during holidays and weekends. But i have to learn to look deeper into a situation and value all the things that do not show so easily. Value the people and their efforts to make something better and try to be a part of it. I missed my chance with that school, i missed the chance to give to where it was needed. But hey i am no perfect and i have to move on!
Thanks for reading. I am sorry it was so long.
Maria
I'm glad things are working out for you!
Maria, one of my favorite sayings is "wisdom comes from experience, experience comes from mistakes". Sounds to me like you have gained some wisdom.
You made your decision based on your son's welfare, and certainly that has worked out well, so you feel good about it, as you should. That was certainly *not* a mistake. Whatever we are or value in our lives, the wellbeing of our children comes first.
Now, on your feelings of social guilt. I know just what you mean. As a very lefty liberal, I have been committed to the welfare of the city of Philadelphia, where I lived for 26 years, for many years worked for a non-profit organization providing advocacy and service in the Germantown area, a very poor area with mostly minority residents. But I never put my children into situations (or kept them in situations) that were not good for them because of my political convictions, because they should not bear the burden of my beliefs. For example, during those years I was involved in many demonstrations, and saw many parents bring their children to the demonstrations, but I never did, feeling any place of potential risk is no place for my children.
And when my parents had reached a point where they could not live alone, I realized they could not live in Germantown, especially since my dad was failing physically and I lived in a 3-story rowhouse. So I moved to the suburbs, to provide a home for my parents that met their physical needs and social needs. And felt guilty for a long, long time about abandoning the city. But my parents did well (they are no longer with us, sad to say) and my mother loved the house, the yard and gardening, and the neighborhood, and we have absolutely wonderful neighbors who were a great help and support to my mom. And now I still live in the suburbs and would not move back into the city, for a number of reasons.
However, I continue to attend my church in Germantown and through my church contribute volunteer time and energy, and money, to Germantown programs. My guilt is pretty much gone, over time, because I feel I am still doing my share to support my social and political convictions. I suggest you look for ways that you can do the same. I would also point out that one of the things I do, in my neighborhood and at work, and here at Momsview, is bring my social and political point of view into the discussion to expose people to those points of view, which they might not otherwise hear. And that is something you can do with your son's new school and the people you meet through that school.
Guilt is really such a useless feeling unless it inspires you to do something positive. By all means, move on, but remember what you have learned and cherish the wisdom you have gained.
Hi Maria, I had posted something quite similar to this several months ago and cannot seem to find it. If I find the post I will let you know. I am in a similar situation with my 6 y/o dd.
For moderators, was this post deleted? I tried to search for it for 30 minutes and cannot find it.
Thanks Ginny, that really touched me. When i first posted here i wasn't looking for sympathy but for insight of other's opinions and experiences. That is what i found on top of the sympathy and support and for that i am grateful. Like you said, i know that i can still contribute to my community and i am searching for ways to do that. There is always something to do so i won't be short of ideas. At the moment i have volunteered in my son's school to read stories in Spanish once a week for all the Spanish speaking children in the school (including my son). I really enjoy helping out and i will do it as long as i can.
What bothers me is that the levels of government funding don't match the government's expectations and if a school is lucky enough to have middle class families in the catchment areas then is sure to succeed. On the other hand a school that serves a large social housing estate with families whose first language is not English is obviously at disadvantage. SO the system seems a bit unfair to me.
However, like you rightly said i musn't put my child's welfare at the expense of my social convictions. I did what i had to do and thank God it has turned out all right so far and i will continue to do my best so that my son benefits from this change. I will always have my social and political inclinations, but my son will not be in school forever so i have to make sure that i offer the best possible education there is for him.
Thanks again for your words. They are very comforting at the same time as being honest and truthful (in my point of view).
Kim, do you remember what it was called? (the post i mean). If you do tell me and i can help you find it. I would really like to read it.
Kim, did you search by KIM as author, rather than for anything in the text of the post? That will bring up every post you made since day one, showing the first few words of every post. Which means, of course, you will have to open a lot of posts before you find it. As you know, posts are archived after a period of time, for server room reasons, but that doesn't delete them. Archived posts will come up on an author search. And while nothing in life is 100%, knowing you as I do, I personally can't image you making a post that the moderators would take exception to.
Maria, if you send me an email I will reply with the details.
Kim, I sent you an email this morning? I hope you got it.
Maria, I did not get it. Please resend to. Thanks! Let me know when you send it so I can take my email off of this post.
bump
You can write me there. It could be my email because i've been having problems with it lately. I'll send you an email straight away so we can both take our addresses off the post. Thanks!
Got it! Thanks! WIll try and write today. Kayla and I are both sick.
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