Wanting to hold my DD back one year in school. need input....
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive July-December 2004:
Wanting to hold my DD back one year in school. need input....
DD is 6 (last May) and in 1st grade. Size wise, she is quite small. Developmentally she is a late bloomer. She still acts like a baby and I see the reactions she is getting from classmates. She still can't do her own socks or tie her shoes. She is just very immature.
She is not slow in learning, but certainly not top of the class either.
I have felt this way ever since entering her into Kindergarten last year, thinking, "I'll pull her and restart next year" but her teacher said she was too bright to do that.
Well, we are in 1st now. She is doing fine. Not suffering, but not really catching on as quickly as I think she should. As in, where you feel happy with school because you understand and are not pushing to try to understand. She doesn't really like 1st grade at all. She reads well, I would say average. Well, average in all science, math, reading. Excells in language however. Does not do well in art compared to others her age. Just can't manage the small motor skills.
DH and I both feel she needs to stay in first next year to allow the other "Non-scholastic" traits to catch up to her.
I would hate having her stay behind as her friends progress. She is in a great year of students.
I've already talked to the 1st grade teacher and spoke often w/ her K teacher about this. Both say "it's just developmental. She's too bright to hold back" However, the 1st grade teacher did say she would have been better off starting K as a 6 yr old than a 5 yr old, but that is water under the bridge and we can't change what was already done. It is better to not hold her back while classmates advance.
My gut tell me she would excell repeating and really find TRUE SUCCESS to repeat 1st. I think she would not feel so stressed to catch on and it would come naturally as it does to other kids in her class, simply because their brains are ready for learning that information.
But I worry about how she would feel w/ other kids moving on. I think about needing to put her in a new school so that she won't be "marked" as a kid who is "stupid" and couldn't move on. But I love her school, and feel it is the best choice avail for Elem schools. I would hate to change schools.
What are your thoughts, esp if you are a teacher.
She is clearly bright. But definitely slow in reaching strategic developmental stages to allow for proper learning and things to "click." Things click about 8 months after they are taught, but by then they are onto other things and she is always playing catch up.
Dana, my experience tells me to go with your gut.
I had a similar situation with Jeff when he was entering K. He had *just* made the age cutoff - he was the youngest, he was socially and emotionally immature. He had been sickly as an infant and young child and was very clingy. He tested *K at risk*. I spent months talking to his preK teachers, the K teachers and the guidance counselors. They all kept telling me he was *academically ready* for K. But I was troubled. I KNEW he was bright, but I just didn't feel he was ready. I wanted to do what was best for the WHOLE child, I didn't want to put him in a situation where he was playing catch up in some areas. The way I figured it was that if he started out playing catch up, it would follow him all throughout school and I didn't want him to go through that.
Finally, I was able to sit down with all of them at once and explain what my concerns were and make it understood that I was looking at the whole picture, not *just* academics, and I asked what *they* would do if it were their child. They were all in agreement, they would wait another year. So I went with what my gut had been telling me all along.
Also, at that time, our parish was starting a pilot program they called Developmental Kindergarten, which was sort of a bridge between PreK and K. They started that because the age cutoff had been moved from December to September that year, and many kids were affected. I put Jeff in D-K instead of K.
I also worried about moving him to a different class from the friends he'd gone through daycare and Pre-K with. But as it turned out, several of them were held back too. And he made new friends. I think it's easier for them to adjust to being held back when they are younger, rather than it happening when they are 10 or 12 years old.
For us, holding him back was the right thing to do. He excelled in school from there on. That extra year he gained allowed him to mature and *catch up* emotionally and socially. Academically, he was always at the top.
Now, once he was in Jr. High, he used to throw in my face *if you hadn't held me back*. But in my heart, I knew it was the right thing to do for him. I've never regretted it.
The only advice I can give you is to talk to the teachers, counselors and other parents and don't ignore what your gut is telling you.
Can you pull her from first right now and put her back in K? If she's struggling so much and so unhappy, why make her go thru the whole year, rather than have her repeat K right now and start first next year?
I think you should follow your gut and do what you feel is best for your dd. I am going to have to face this decision in the near future. My youngest is in preschool this year, he has a July birthday. He is one of the youngest in his class and I can see a big difference in maturity between him and most of his classmates. Dh and I were just talking last night about possibly keeping him in preschool again next year and then starting him in K when he is 6.
What about Kate's suggestion of moving her back to K this year?? If that is not an option, then I would wait and see how she does this year. She may mature and then it won't be an issue. If she doesn't then you may need to hold her back. My nephew was held back in either 1st or 2nd grade (I can't remember which one). My SIL says it was the best thing she ever did. He was really struggling and just so unhappy. He is now an honor student in high school.
I'd check into having her moved back to K now. I meant to include that in my first post and didn't.
I think your gut feeling is very strong and you should listen to it. I agree about moving her back to K now instead of waiting until the end of the year to hold her back, if possible. Kids are pretty adaptable. I think the earlier you make this move the easier it will be for her.
Good luck.
I know that when kids at my school have been held back or moved back - we tell the kids the teachers made a mistake - so and so needed to go to kindergarten here first, that's why he's not in first grade anymore, or my dd just told me of a little boy who didn't go to second grade 'not because he wasn't smart, mum, just because he was to little" I think it is less traumatic with little kids than when they get older.
I would say it's definitely less traumatic when they are younger. Look at the big picture, look at the *whole child*. Your gut is telling you something, you know your child best. Good luck with this - it's never an easy decision to make, but I'm sure you'll make the right one for your DD.
I felt much the same way last year. My son, who is now in 1st grade struggled emotionally and socially last year. He was very bright and ahead acedemically, but behind in the other areas. We decided to not hold him back this year. I am so glad that we didn't. He has really come into his own this year. Many things seem to have changed. He has grown up this year, the teacher is a great match for his needs, he is in a class of 1st and 2nd graders, and he feels successful. I guess what I am trying to say is, go with what feels right for your child, but also know that children come into their own at different times. It will click for her when she is developmentally ready. Much of that development can not be taught or pushed, it just happenes. For us, part of our decision was the fact that academically he was ahead. I didn't feel that holding him back with children younger then him would help him grow socially or emotionally. In my sons case, being with older children has helped him act more mature. What I learned from this situation was not to listen to others, but to listen to my heart (a mom in my sons class told me he needed to be held back). The difference in my son this year, is as different as night and day. You know your child better than anyone. You will make the right decision.
I absolutely agree with those who say follow your gut. I wish I had held back my youngest, who was also very bright but very immature socially. I think he would have been much better off all around.
And also, the idea of just putting her back into kindergarten now, since it is so early in the school year, has some real merit.
Well, here's what might be some positive feedback but it is an "old timer" story.
My DH was a late bloomer. (He is 45) He was not ready for kindegarten and he was held back in first grade. He played a lot of "catch up" and never really did well in school. He graduated high school with a middle C average, not failing but not great either and he just never really thought academics was his thing. He became a Paint Contractor and ran his own business and did fine.
But he always wanted to work with computers and electronics and he has a very, very, high competency and talent for what he calls "tinkering" with things. So, when he was 30 and we got married, I encouraged him to go back to school at a local technical college.
Well, it took some encouragement but he finally (with trembling hands) signed up and I prepared him and said lovingly, "Now, if you score in some remedial courses, don't worry about it, don't let it bother you, you'll catch up, etc."
WELL GUESS WHAT? We were both floored when he scored "Program Ready" on all his entrance tests to the school. We were even more floored and amazed when he began to make DEAN'S LIST in the academic subjects as well as the technical classes. He graduated and has a degree as an Electronics Technician and he works for a large coorporation today and he is happy. He was just a late bloomer, as a kid the subjects didn't make sense to him but when he went back to school as an adult, he really soared!!!
So, I believe in late bloomers, I married one!
Anyway--if you can pull your child out of school and put her back into kindegarten that might be better than her struggling all year playing "catch up". If not, perhaps the success she feels next year when she is able to succeed in first grade will help balance the inevitable disappointment of not moving ahead. Also, if she stays in her class, is a tutor or some type of intervention possible for her? Maybe if she got some extra help it would help her feel more confident. Good luck. You know your child better than anyone. Perhaps you and your hubby could just listen to your hearts and do what you think is best. AJ
I'm inclined to agree with the others and put her back in kindergarten right now. Listen to your mommy gut and sooner is better than later. Also, have you looked into OT to kind of help her along with her fine motor skills? The public school should provide an eval and services if needed for free.
Thanks for all the replies. At least we are not the only ones to have had to consider this, as a PARENTS REQUEST rather than the teacher saying it is best.
Her K teacher strongly recommends she does not attend K again. I do trust her K teacher. She is the best (in mine and many other's oppion) at this school. Top rate K teacher! DD is really too far along to start K again.
That's the problem. She is doing "okay." She is not suffering and she is pulling the grades. She just seems to get the correct answers without really understanding how she got them. On her K progress reports she always did better than standard scores.
MORE QUESTIONS for those who held back their kids. It was hit upon but if there is more info on this I would appreciate it. How did it make the 1st grader feel to be held back in 1st grade again? I would hate to leave an emotional scar of her feeling like she is not good enough. I have always told her there was the chance we, her parents, might choose to keep her back.
I don't know, maybe I will think about doing K again. She certainly misses it. And she does not look forward to going to school any more.
S~I~G~H
I think it's too early to tell if you will hold her back in first grade. If you don't think she needs to repeat Kindergarten- I think you have your answer. First grade is an adjustment. I think you'll need to wait and see and see how she does this year. Holding a child back is a big decision. If, down the road, you feel she is "bored" you will be unable to advance her without going through the district grade acceleration procedure (which is usually pretty tough). I'd let her stick it out.
Dana, my nephew, who was held back in 1st or 2nd grade, was actually relieved. However, he was really struggling academically. My SIL said that it actually helped his self esteem because he was doing well in school for the first time.
My oldest ds is in 1st grade this year. It is a BIG adjustment for him. He is my mature one and has always done really well in school. He mentioned last week how 1st grade isn't as fun as K. I asked him why he felt this way, he said that it is a lot more work and there isn't much free time. He loves doing art work and projects and they don't do a lot of that now. I feel that 1st grade is a lot different then K. If you really don't feel that she should repeat K, then I would just wait and see how she is at the end of the year. She may bloom and then you can let her go to 2nd. If you feel she is still struggling, then she can always repeat 1st.
Dana, Laura has made an excellent point. Based on your last post, I think removing her from 1st and putting her back in K would probably be the wrong decision. HOWEVER - *if* her year in 1st is a struggle throughout the year, then *I* would consider repeating 1st.
But, as was mentioned, 1st is an adjustment. When exactly did school start for you guys?? Maybe at this point, it's best to just monitor how she's doing. If she's doing *okay* in first, and continues to just do *okay* the entire school year, and you feel she really doesn't have a solid grasp of what she's learned, then I would meet with the teachers - 1st and 2nd - and the guidance counselor and re-evaluate whether to hold her back or not.
And as I stated in a post above, I think it would still be easier on her being held back in 1st, rather than, say, in 5th or 6th, for example.
She may do a lot of maturing this year. Plus, there will be adjustments when the baby comes. Everything that happens to her and in her life this year will affect her, and all of you, in one way or another. At this point, *I'd* say leave her in first, continue to urge her to do her best, stay on top of her school work and in close contact with her teacher, and re-evaluate at the end of the school year.
Dana, we held my Dd back this year she is repeating kindergarten. To me that is the best decision me and Dh made. She is also small for her age and is a little bit behind in the learning. well she started about a month ago and she is doing 100% better. she already knows the stuff and she gets excited because she is done before the rest and the teacher has her go around and help the kids if they ask. She brought her progress report home Friday and all A's it is a total improvement. she fits in alot better she's not the smallest in her glass. I am happy with our decision it took us awhile to get to it because it made me think that we failed her. but we didn't and she is doing good
Dana,
I heard that before. First grade isn't as much fun as kindergarten. The kids start to hate it.
(Terrible isn't it?)
I also heard of putting the child in another school such as catholic school to repeat a grade so they don't see their friends move up and they don't. Emphasize is on Change of school instead of doing first grade again...
Also this repeating is usually done if kindergarten for immaturity I thought. The younger the better.
Something to do with self esteem. Maybe first grade is still young enough though. Dh did terrible in first grade.
She might really do okay though. Really early in the year. Is she the youngest in the class? Girls are so advanced over boys that she might do really well.
(((hugs)))
What a tough decision.
Definitely go with your mommy instinct. It usually proves to be right.
Now, as an outsider, I will tell you my opinion. If you let her go through first grade, at the end of the first grade year she will most likely be to advanced to repeat first grade. Just like now she is too advanced to repeat kindergarten. Could you hire a tutor to help her *learn* more.
You could involve her in some extra curricular activities that will help her in areas other than scholastic. Dance, karate, piano. Piano is usually a great way to teach fine motor skills. Lots of hand/eye coordination.
It sounds like academically she is right on target. Especially if both her K and 1st grade teachers don't think she needs to be held back.
The developmental aspects will come at their own time.
My DD is in first grade and can't tie her shoes by herself, or ride a bike without training wheels. My other DD who barely turned 5 in time for kindergarten (turned 5 on the first day of school!) can tie her own shoes and has been riding without training wheels all summer.
It's just different for everyone.
I would let her go a little bit further and then evaluate her progress again. Maybe have her tested by the health dept, or another professional, and then 6 months down the road test her again. That should give you an idea of how she is really doing.
Good luck with your decision.
Again, thanks for the comments. I am really looking hard at this.
I wish I could pin exactly what is bothering me. It is just that those "ah ha! I get it" moments are happening several months AFTER they are being taught. For example, she could count 1-10 as needed to grad K. However, it wasn't until summer time (after K) that she understood that 2 was one more than one, 3 was one more than 2 and so on, counting on your fingers. FINALLY she could count to 10 and understand how she got there. However, she still can't look at her fingers and tell me how many I am holding up if there are more than 3. She can COUNT how many I am holding, but not just look. Even, 5 she is unable to remember. She also can't hold her fingers up one at a time or remove them. So without that, she is unable to use her fingers to do add/sub in 1st grade. She can use counting pieces, but not fingers.
She still can't tell me the day of the week. What day was yesterday or tomorrow, but she can say all the days in the week in order.
She can now count by 5 (majority of her K class was doing this well by Jan last year and understood that they were jumping ahead 5). She learned this the week before 1st started. It is all memorized and no meaning what so ever.
Same w/ counting by 10's. I'm surprised, but they even count by 2's in K. She is not even close to that. She just doesn't understand where the answer comes from. She can memorize, but not understand.
She just recently started learning some of the numbers of what comes before X and what comes after X. But only up to 11. They had mastered much of that in K well before the end of the year.
The months are definetly something she does not know. She has no idea the difference between a week and a month.
It just seems that all the really really fundamental stuff she just doesn't get. She can repeat and memorize really well, but she can not think for herself.
And then the size thing. She looks like a K child. She acts like a young young child. She most definitely does not act the way her classmates do. Or even her friends, who are all younger than her.
I have noticed the friends she is picking this year are the very timid and slow children. She is no longer friends with the girls that she was friends w/ last year. They are all just more mature. Whether they are choosing to not be with her, or she choosing to not be with them, I do not know. But she is certainly not part of the entire group any longer.
My DH and I spoke again last night. We are both looking at making the switch back to K. Something I really had not considered this year (I was thinking 1st repeat). But we both feel that she is more of the K age group. By the way, school started the first week of Sept, so we are pretty far into the year already.
I also notice that DD has a very difficult time focusing. Again, a develpmental thing. She spaces out and needs to have help to complete an asignment because she didn't catch all the directions. She also comes home everyday with work that should have been completed during class time. Nothing big, nothing that she is unable to do, just that she can't do it fast enough in the time alloted in class.
I asked DD what she thought about doing K again. Would she want to? Does she think it would help her? I told her she would NOT get the same teacher (she loves her K teacher and would do anything to be with her again). I explained that all her friends would now be in an older grade and she would be starting with new friends. I told her she would be a 6yr old K rather than a 5yr K. She LOVED that idea! "You mean I won't be the littlest any more?" I honestly don't think she would be bored repeating. I think she would have lost connections being made that were not there the first time. She thought long and hard about it, and says she thinks she would like it. I also told her that she would still have to do 1st again next year. And, yes, DD misses the free time allowed in K that is not in 1st. She made that quite clear the first week of school. So I am aware of just the "fun" is missing.
Tomorrow I go in to volunteer in her class. I am "this close" to asking for a conference. I am so afraid to make the wrong choice.
Thanks again, everyone. You have all been very helpful.
Dana, don't take this the wrong way, but can you have her evaluated? Is there a problem perhaps, that you're not aware of?
Maybe moving back to K WOULD be the right thing for her.
If I were you, I wouldn't wait, I'd schedule the conference NOW, before more time passes, and she gets further *behind*.
Dont' wait, call a conference now! It will be easier to make the transistion the sooner you do it. Also it will make next year better because she won't have done much. You are not far into school at all. Talk with the teacher and ask her what she thinks. I will add that very very few people ever regret holding their children back. It isn't so much now you need to worry about, but if she is just a touch behind now, next year that could grow, etc. You want her foundation to be strong!
Dana, trust your instincts. My niece was held back in 1st grade and my sister/bil have *never* regretted it. She is in 5th gr now and makes all A's without even trying.  It really boosted her self esteem as well. It never phased her at this age that her friends were *moving on*. She was also able to stay with the same teacher who was very supportive.
I regret not holding back my oldest ds. He still struggles and is in 7th grade now.  Socially he should be in the class behind him. He gets along with those kids better.
My middle ds was older when he began school and has excelled and done very well.
We *planned* to hold our baby back all along. So he is now in a 4 yo preschool class, next yr he will move into a *bridge* class instead of K and then the next yr he will move on to K.
IMO it cannot hurt a child to be held back.
Talk to the school and see what they want to do to handle this. Do they not offer a bridge class of some type (between K and 1st?) Do they have a more accelorated K class she could switch too? Whatever the case I am sure they will help you make it as easy for dd as possible.
Good luck! And dont second guess yourself.
My sister was in a similar situation to your daughter. She was doing ok academically, and her teacher loved her and thought she was sweet and helpful, but she struggled with focusing, following directions, and taking too long to complete tasks. We moved to a new state, and the principal at our new school suggested having her repeat K. My parents agreed (my mom is a teacher), and have never regretted that decision. She was much more comfortable and confident with her second class, and went on to excel throughout school with that group. That extra year gave her time to better adjust to the school structure. We discovered that part of her slowness was perfectionism and all the new things she was learning were stressful. Giving her extra time to catch on to the basics was what she needed.
Dana with the specific examples that you mentioned I would agree with those who suggested having her evaluated. I think occupational therapy could really help her with her fine motor issues (does she have trouble with handwriting?). The fact that she can't hold up her fingers one or two at a time suggests a motor planning problem that would not likely improve without intervention. Keep in mind that I don't know your daughter and I'm not diagnosing, but based on my experiences and your description I think OT is really something to look into. Also, with her difficulty with understanding concepts you might want to have her receptive and expressive language skills evaluated. I know she has had speech therapy in the past for articulation, but she may have some underlying language issues that didn't show up on previous testing or weren't even tested for. She may not have any language issues at all, but I certainly think it is worth investigating. If all she needs is some additional help, then she can possible stay in first grade and succeed with a little additional therapy or outside help. You are right to jump on this, because kdg and 1st gr set the tone for her whole educational career. Good luck, keep us posted, and feel free to email me if you need to (speech-chick@cox.net).
Wow, thanks again everyone! Also, I wrote the wrong start up month for school. We started back on AUGUST 2, not Sept.
She was tested at age 3 for various delay problems, but all fall within range. Even her speech was border line. She is showing "slower than others" but not out of range in many developmental areas. Both K and 1st gr teachers say she will grow into it. It's just the waiting! So much is being learned right now. If you miss these building blocks, it will make the rest of school more difficult than it needs to be. I am certain she is very smart. I am certain that she will succeed in school, but I don't think she will fly.
As for the OT I don't know if she qualifies now w/ her older age or not. But her teachers are not concerned. Again, she is just a late bloomer. I have mentioned all of these things to all of her teachers. I had my first conference w/ her 1st gr teacher during the first month of school. And she is well aware of my thoughts for holding DD back (although holding back in 1st next year, not K this year). PamT, she can hold up her fingers, but not hold them up in progression. She can do 4 all by itself, 2 all by itself, 3 is tough, 5 is easy of course, and one as well. But can not do pointer, middle, hold pinky w/ thumb for 3, let go pinky and then all five. Then when trying to add/sub with fingers, say 9-3, she can hold up 5, but then hold up four misc fingers on other hand, and then can't figure out how to remove 3 fingers one at a time. Does that make any sense to you what so ever, Pamt? Also, Pamt, does the fact that she points with her middle finger mean anything? She has done this since learning to point. It never bothered me. However, both K and 1st teachers keep telling me to make her point w/ the pointing finger when she reads. Is there something wrong w/ pointing w/ the middle finger (besides the obvious slang meaning)? Oh, to answer your question about writing, no, she has beautiful writing.
And on a sadder note for me, DD came home from school today just bursting with excitement! She thinks she is just fine in 1st grade and thinks she would not like K again. That just makes this choice that much more difficult. It is so much easier if I see her looking forward to relearning in K as well. And I have to admit she has made great improvement in many areas.
Spoke w/ DH again breifly. He still feels K is better for her at this time. Woe is me. I will pray on this. But I do know what my gut is telling me, and has been telling me since before I put her in K. She was not ready for K last year, and now not ready for 1st developmentally or emotionally. I just wish I had the teachers agreeing with me.
If you have concerns about her fine or gross motor skills the teachers do not have to agree with you for her to get evaluated. The teachers are not doctors or therapist and are not trained to evaluate everything. In New York in you want your child evaluated, you just call or contact the special ed office.
Good luck. You are doing great.
Also if you really want something just think of yourself as a persistant wall or something. Like a leaky pipe. That doesn't go away.
You know what is the best for you child. If I want something I just keep calling or visiting the principle every day. Repeating my concerns, untill they want to get rid of me and give me what I want.
If they say they won't put her in kindergarten you might say you want an free arbitrator or mediator. If you need to take it to the next level.
I would agree with PamT. I would have her evaluated by an OT. Even children who are within "normal" ranges can benifit from help. I wouldn't be too quick to trust a teacher in this area. I was told that my son fell within normal for speach, but I didn't think that his problems were normal. I took him to a speach therapist and he made great improvments. School districts do not always have enough funding to see the children who are questionable. Based on the skills that you were describing, I would agree that she would probably do well to repeat K. Change is hard, but she will adjust to her new class if you decide to move her to K. Good luck. What ever decision you make, you will know that you have really thought it through with your daughter's best interest in mind. You are good parents!
Dana, check your email.
Tough decisions. Wait til you pick a college!
I held my twin girls back in kindergarten. It was a hard decision at that time, but it has worked out so well for them.
|
Members
