Posting Anon for my daughter's sake, some of the old timers here might recognize me, but that's ok. Anyways...my daughter is almost 11 and it was 7 years ago that she last saw her paternal grandparents. Her father and I divorced after it came to light that my ex was doing some terrible things. He spent quite a few years in prison and contact with his family was cut off completely. Per court order, my ex is not supposed to have any contact with my daughter. My ex's parental rights were eventually terminated and my DH adopted my daughter. So last week, my daughter comes to me and tells me that she wants to meet her grandparents. She has no desire to see her bio-father. Should I let her meet her grandparents? I just want to do what's best for her. Her grandparents had always been good to her when we were in contact and never did anything "bad" per se, except support their son, which I guess was to be expected.

As for my opinion, I have no objections to my daughter meeting her grandparents. Her grandmother is in failing health and who knows how long she has left. I just don't want any regrets.

By Karen~moderator on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 08:22 am:

I do know who you are. {{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}

And I know that you thought this might one day be an issue. If I'm not mistaken, the grandparents wanted you to send them pics or information about her or be part of her life in some way?

I think for her own peace of mind and sense of identity, you should let her meet them, but under certain conditions.

YOU control everthing. You set the time and the place and be with her, and under no circumstances, let there be any chance *he* would be there. Let your X inlaws know that you will take NO chances with your DD's mental or physical well being, and make sure they understand and agree to abide by the terms you decide upon.

I think you'll be doing the right thing for your DD.

{{{{{{{MORE HUGS}}}}}}}}}

By Feona on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 08:49 am:

Curious if there is any abduction risk with the bio father?

By Tunnia on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 09:29 am:

I think that if your dd has asked to meet her paternal grandparents then I would let her. I agree with Karen, only allow it on your (and your dd's) terms.

By Trina~moderator on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 09:32 am:

Ditto Karen. {{{HUGS}}} YOUR terms and conditions with NO chances of bio Dad showing up. Definitely not at your current residence. Perhaps in Grandmother's community at a public place??

By Audreyj on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 10:12 am:

I do not know who you are.....

I had a dangerous relative (he died at 60 from a sudden and massive heart attack). But before he died, there were strict, strict, rules in my family about him not being around my children. My grandmother especially found this difficult. She wanted to manipulate the situation so that he could apologize, change his ways, etc. I told her bluntly that he could repent and change his ways but my kids were not "experimental labrats" for her to test her theory.

A few times I had to "put my foot down" and just say, "No, we will not attend the (Christmas dinner, family birthday party, Thanksgiving lunch) because the dangerous person will be there...." And once, my grandmother actually manipulated the wake of a family friend to have me and my husband (kids stayed with my Mom) "corraled" into running into the dangerous man and tried to get us to socialize and mingle!

That's when I gave my final warning, I took my grandmother aside and I told her that a wake is to mourn the deceased, not to be used for her own manipultative purposes and that if she ever pulled a stunt like that again, she would not see her great-grandchildren anymore, at all. She knew I meant it, too and after that she stopped trying to "accidentally-on-purpose" throw us all together. Six months after my "final warning" the dangerous party's live in girlfriend died after a horrible and tragic battle with lung cancer and at the age of SIXTY he actually MOVED IN with my 80-something year old grandmother and she took care of him the last few months of his life, none of us knew he was going to die and the whole family was "up in arms" that this "rascal" (and not in a nice way) had manipulated my grandmother into this situation.

But then he died, in her guestroom, during the night, and it was very sad for her and we were all sympathetic to her and we gave him a decent burial but the majority of our family feels that this world is a better place without him in it.

Anyway, that is my experience, I never let my kids meet him. So far, they have not asked about him.

He was an incredibly talented (and semi-famous locally) perfessional musician and I have a few photos of him playing. So, when my daughters ask about him, (since he is deceased) I will just show the photos and say that he was an incredible musician and very talented, and leave it at that. Why burden them with his mess? But, I assure you, if he were alive today, that boundary would never, never come down.

Even as we cleaned out his room and "put away" his things (from my Grandmother's home) after he died, we found pill bottles, "baggies", balloons, porn, syringes, liquor bottles, and all kinds of stuff hidden in his room, in his van, in his office, just everywhere he was he left a trail of filth. We had to "go through" every single item of his before we let my grandmother have it to protect her from finding something horrible attributed to him.

So, I guess this time I am the bad guy. I disagree and I have my personal (not to say your experience is identical) experience to back me up. I had a boundary to protect my children, I never let it down, even with pressure from my grandmother (who I adore) and after the dangerous person died, I was proven right to keep the boundary up, he had not changed and he was still a jerk and my grandmother was still determined to push us together (because we love her, she knew he was a stinker but she did not know details) she honestly believed that if he could reconnect with his family, he would change. But he didn't and he used her until the day he died.

So, no, absolutely not, would I allow my daughter (in your circumstances) to see her grandparents. They would naturally be inclined (sooner or later) to try to establish some sort of relationship between her and their son. Not because they are bad people, but just because parents always want to see the best in their children. And I would not risk it. I had given the final warning to my grandmother and I was prepared to use it. Fortunately, God intervened, the dangerous party died, and I never had to enforce it.

I am a little nervous about posting this because it is so personal and I am the different opinion but I am going to because this really happened. This is the truth of the situation and as much as we all (myself included) wish that the situations were different and we could let down these walls, we can not. Boundaries regarding our children's should be kept and enforced. It was hard to tell my grandmother to "cut it out" and that my kids would not be around the dangerous person even if she choose to shelter him in her home, but I did it for my kid's safety.

And I would not suggest you allow your daughter to see her grandparents. You have that boundary for good reason. Keep it. Don't "cave". It is hard when you are emotionally involved and you want to "hope for" the good outcome. But obviously, you have the boundary for a reason.

This was a hard thing for me to do, and I know my post is long and probably too emotional but I repeat, I kept the boundary in spite of great emotional pressure from my grandmother to "let it down." And I believe I did the right thing.

My vote is do not let your daughter see her grandparents. AJ

By Kate on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 10:35 am:

I'd vote no, too. In my opinion, grandparents get way too many rights and feel they deserve way too many priviledges. I am thoroughly opposed to grandparents who take parents to court to seek visitation with their grandchildren. No matter the circumstances, those grandchildren are NOT their actual children, and the PARENTS of the children are the ones to make decisions. I am not talking about unfit parents who get taken to court by good grandparents who are trying to save their grandchildren. I am talking about good parents, who, for whatever reason, do not wish to have a relationship with their parents anymore. This has nothing to do with your situation though, I just got carried away as I get so upset about parental rights being pushed aside when grandparents feel they have rights.

This is harder because your daughter initiated the interest, but I still say no, stay away from that side of the family and keep her safe.

By Kittycat_26 on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 10:55 am:

Supervised and under your control, I say yes.

I've not walked in your shoes and only know what you have told us here in this post. However, the one important thing that I think some have lost sight is that this is at your daughter's request. This is not the request of the grandparents at all.

JMHO

By Audreyj on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 11:01 am:

I respectfully, respectfully, speaking as a Mom who adores her children and understands the battle of "well, she(the child) wants to...":

would like to say that our children are under our authority, we are not under theirs.

My daughter wanted to attend public school and we allowed her to attend. But we made sure she understood that this was a "big person" decision, not a "little person" decision and we allowed her to attend public school only after thoroughly checking it out first.....

IMHO and I emphasize the H since this is online and I do not know this Anon. person, this is not a decision to be made by the daughter, this is a parental decision.

We do not give in to all of our children's requests, as much as we might like to...AJ

By Anonymous on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 11:01 am:

Thanks for all of your responses. Sure has given me alot to think about. *If* I were to let this happen, rest assured that *I* would be the one calling all the shots. I'm pretty sure that the grandparents already know this...and if not, I would make sure that they do. I'm going to talk to my daughter again tonight and make absolutely sure that this is what she wants.

By Anonymous on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 11:06 am:

In response to Audreyj as we posted at the exact same moment. Rest assured, even if my daughter truly wants this, *I* will be the one making the final decision. It's a really hard one for me to make and I am not taking it lightly. There are a few moms on here who know the whole story and the hell (sorry, I know we're not supposed to swear, but that is honestly the best word for the situation) my daughter and I have gone through. Again, I will discus more with her tonight and let her know of some of the possible ramifications.

By Tonya on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:00 pm:

I know who you are and say if they come to you (your home) to see her then yes but to send her to them then no but on the other hand her being the age she is if he is anywhere near there then she will not want to see them anymore either and maybe them knowing this will make them be sure to stay far away from him when they see her. They could want to see her but be scared to call and ask you.

I say that you should go for it. Especially since she asked you. Good luck!!

By Kim on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:21 pm:

I know you too, and hugs from me too!!! I would not let them know where you live!!! For your daughter's sake, yes, maybe she does need to meet with her grandparents. I would be VERY careful and make sure dd understands the need to keep some things private also.

I don't envy you. This is going to ba a hard decision. Even if you do it, it doesn't have to be an ongoing thing.

By Kim on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:22 pm:

Also, is he still in jail?

By Anonymous on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:34 pm:

To answer all of these questions!

No, he is no longer in jail. He was released 2 years ago. He currently lives with his parents, but like I said, there is NO WAY that I am going to their house. It is full of bad memories and they need to stay there!

We also recently moved quite a distance from where we were last living. The grandparents knew our old address, but not this new one and I have no plans on giving it out! I've already asked DD not to mention our new address.

I also don't want to give the grandparents the wrong message. For now, this would be a one time deal and I will make sure that the grandparents know this.

So now I am off to talking to DD and make sure she understands what she is asking for.

By Amecmom on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 04:04 pm:

If she really wants to see them again, then I would, as the others have said, arrange a supervised meeting on neutral ground - a park, a restaurant, another relative's house where you would be comfortable. You and your DH should be there (as well as any other strong male relatives you can get to come).
You decide when the meeting begins and ends. Under no circumstances is she left alone with them. I understand Audryj's post and that she is fearful of this meeting escalating into a situation where your daughter would come face to face with her father. That would be my concern, too. You have control over whether or not to allow it to proceed to that point.
Some safety issues to think about: keep your address and phone #private. Use a cell phone only when contacting them. Do not let your daughter call should your ex "just happen" to answer their phone.
Get to the meeting early, but wait in your car to see who comes to the designated place.
At any time if you feel uncomfortable, just end it.
Grandparents do have rights and they can sue for visitation if they want to. I'm not saying they will, but if they are willing to see her on your terms, then you don't have to worry about a court ever taking that control from you.
This is not an easy situation, but I really admire you for not just taking the easy way out and just saying, "no" to your daughter. It may be very important to her psychological well being to meet with them.
Ame

By Melanie on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 04:51 pm:

I would say no. Their son is dangerous. And they supported him through it all. I think opening up contact to them will serve to give him more info about your kids that you don't want him to have. Even though you would prevent him from seeing them himself, you know his parents will tell him everything they did with them and whatever info your daughter shares with them. I don't think it's a good idea. I think you were right to cut the communication with them when you did and I think it's in your family's best interest to keep it that way.

JMHO

By Ginny~moderator on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 06:46 pm:

I have nothing to add except to say that a lot of good points are expressed above. I also know who you are and think you are an incredibly caring mother and generous person to give so much serious consideration to this matter.

By Debbie on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 09:52 pm:

At first, I was really leaning towards saying "yes, let her see them." However, now that you have said that he is out of jail and living with them, I would say no. What if they told him where and when you were meeting and he showed up there?? This would really worry me. Also, I would be concerned because they supported him through everything. This shows that they obviously feel he didn't do anything wrong.

I so feel for you. I am sure this has to be a very hard decision, especially since your daughter requested to met them.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 10:15 pm:

(((BIG HUGS))) And I know who you are too... I think you and DD should talk about this long and hard before you decide. And I can see her need, I never got to meet my bio grandfather and I so wish I had gotten to. Anyway, you know we are here. Keep us posted.... More hugs...

By Feona on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 06:42 am:

I don't know. You didn't give your address to the grandparents for a reason. So I would assume there is some risk involved.

What if bio father follows bio grandparents? I would to see my daughter? Then followed you home?


Of course it might be ridiculous for me to bring this up.

I know someone whos husband threatened to kill her and her eldest daughter. Must be a molestation case. I can't imagine why a father would want to kill a child. Anyway she can't work for the government as a teacher because she is afraid he will find her due to public records. I don't know...

By Emily7 on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 05:13 pm:

I also know who you are & I would say that I would let her see them, but I would first start out with a phone call.
I would make the meeting in a public place with you, your Mom, or DH there. I don't think given the circumstances they need to be alone with her, especially since you say he is living with them.
Good luck, it is a tough descision, you are a good Mom & will make the right one.
Just curious...
How do they feel about what happened?

By Anonymous on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 07:16 pm:

I'm still thinking long and hard about the points that everyone has made. Under NO circumstances would I ever leave DD alone with the grandparents. How do the grandparents feel about what happened? Well, from what I have recently heard, the grandmother hated my ex for the longest time and blamed him for not being about to see DD and me. I just don't want to have any regrets, if you know what I mean. The grandmother can die tomorrow and I would feel terrible that DD never got to see her again. I certainly don't blame the grandparents for what my ex did...they just said and did alot of stupid things that I didn't care for and *that* was the reason that I broke off contact with them in the first place. After the whole situation exploded, I tried to make things work, but like I said, stupid things were said and done and I couldn't deal with it anymore. But now that I'm older and wiser (I hope), I'm looking at the whole picture and the future. Again, I just don't want any "what-ifs."

By Tink on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 08:45 pm:

I also think I know who you are and I think you are leaning in the right direction. I think that you can have a great deal of control in this situation and that you can find ways to make sure that your ex is not able to follow his parents, in order to see your dd. His parents may have made some stupid comments or actions but they have tried to respect your choice regarding their lack of visitation with your dd. This may also cause some problems between your dd and yourself. I am speaking from your daughter's perspective since I have been in a similar place. My mom refused to let me contact my biological father and I recently found out that he may have died. I have to admit that I resent the fact that I didn't have the chance to meet him. I don't think that you should make this decision based on how your dd will react but, if you refuse, I would suggest discussing all the reasons you have decided that. Your dd is mature enough to understand that and respect that, I think.

By Anonymous on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 10:29 am:

Just an update. I've been talking to my DD every day about this to see if she's changed her mind or anything. Yesterday I asked her if she was still sure she wanted to see her grandparents. She said, "Yes, I miss them and love them so much." How can I say 'no' to that? I know alot of you won't agree with me, but I am leaning toward letting DD see them. Like I said, I just don't want any regrets. Grandmother is really ill and almost died once this year. If she dies without DD seeing her, we can't go back and who knows...DD might resent me for the rest of her life. That's how I see it anyways.

By Karen~moderator on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 02:59 pm:

I, for one, agree with you. I think if you control the situation, can be certain your X is not there and there is no chance of him showing up, and you do not give the X in-laws your phone number or address, it's the right thing to do.

By Emily7 on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 04:26 pm:

I don't think that any of us would disagree that as her Mom you would make a wrong choice. I agree with Karen, as long as you are in control of the situation things should be okay. Maybe you can start off with having them talk to her on the phone.

By Karen~moderator on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 04:43 pm:

and...........I'm sure you can use some {{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}!

By Debbie on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 06:02 pm:

{{{{hugs}}}} I think you need to do what you feel is right for you and your dd. We can all give you advice, but we are not in your shoes, so how do we really know what we would do!