I read the other post and it had some really good advice, here's my dilema. I've complained about ds's preschool once before because they are really not helping the potty issue. Anyway, today dh went to pick Nico up, he said it was total choas. His guess was 20-25 kids and 2 teachers in one room. Nico was in the bathroom with like 5 other little boys. One was standing up peeing in the toilet and all the boys were laughing and carrying on. Mind you, these kids are like 3 and 4 years old. When the teacher saw dh go in and get our son, she yelled "Okay everyone out!". This used to be Nico's teacher in the 2 year old room, and she's a yeller. Hmm, or maybe she just talks really loud. I don't know what to do about his school. I think it is an okay school, fairly priced but there may be better ones. Both dh and I have sat down and talked to the manager before about Nico coming home with poopy pull-ups. He also had a bruise on his inner thigh and said another kid kicked him. We are too nice though and I feel like people just feed us lines to make us happy. Dh doesn't really like this school anymore. I on the other hand fear taking him out. What if the next one is worse, and what about him having to adjust all over again? There are other small issues, like they are very vague on the daily reports, but I guess if they're really busy they can't go into detail with everything a child did. I feel that they would omit some things that happened though, like negative things. What should I do?

By Annie2 on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 12:09 am:

Bottom line...Take him out. There are too many red flags. He's just a baby having to deal with these weird things. Find a happy, secure enviroment where he will thrive.

Stand up for him ...no one else will

By Truestori on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 12:10 am:

I removed my daughter from her original daycare because of this same issue. When we picked her up her diaper was almost always wet. We addressed the issue and it was never solved. I never regretted moving her and found a much better school. I think it may be time to move on. Always remember that most children adjust fairly easily. I would check out other preschools in your area, and make sure there is room for your child. Goodluck

By Tink on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 01:56 am:

I think this is enough to pull him out. I'm pretty easy going and don't like to rock the boat but poopy pull-ups, bruises, and multiple children in the restroom with no supervision would be enough. 3 strikes and you're out! I realize he had a big adjustment to make but I think the idea of preschool is there now and he'll adjust quicker than you expect and, while you don't know what you may be getting into, you know what he is in now and you don't like it. You're just as likely to find something better in the next school. Good luck and e-mail me sometime!

By Coopaveryben on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 07:35 am:

Get him out! This was happening with my son and we yanked him, I spent some time searching for other pre-schools and I found an NAEYC accredited pre-school in our area, the ratio was low, the teachers had to have a minimum 2 years college, they didn't teach with worksheets but by hands on etc. My son loved it, the difference in him after we changed schools was unreal.

By Amecmom on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 09:36 am:

Get him out. He'd be better off at home until you find a better program for him. When you research the preschools in your area, make sure you are welcome to come to the classroom, to volunteer and to observe. Even if another school is more expensive, it is worth it in the long run.
Ame

By Feona on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 09:42 am:

I suffered for 4 months in a horrible school. It made me so sick. If I had to do over I would take him out.

too many kids not enough teachers. Should be 7 kids to 1 teacher ratio.

By Karen~moderator on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 10:15 am:

Ditto Annie!!!!! Take him OUT!

By Kim on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 06:46 pm:

This sounds like a different situation....the other mom said it was an isolated situation. This sounds totally different to me and I would probably take my child out also. It sounds like they are pushing their ratios to an extreme. At that age with potty training they need more hands.

Feona, in FL the ratio is: 3 years 1:15, 4 years 1:20. Some daycares really push the ratios. They do where I work and I am trying to find another job. I don't feel I can give the best care I have to offer when they are maxing us on our ratios. I am in the 1's (12 to 18 months)and the ratio is 1:6 and they try to always have us at max capacity, which is 2:12. What we need is a third person and they aren't willing to pay for it.

For any bruise or injury they should be required to write an accident or incident report. We have to, its state law and it requires a parent signature. I don't like the sound of this one!

By Kellyj on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 10:29 pm:

Hi Nicosmom, I'm the mom who posted with daycare whoas a few weeks ago. The incident was isolated and I have not had a problem since it was brought to the attention of the center director. If there had been no resolution to the problem dd would be in a new center ASAP or I would have to rearrange my schedule and keep her at home until we could find care.
Anyway, I think that if you are having repeated problems and cannot get the issues resolved that it is time to find a new provider. If you have suspicion that they are omitting details and not supervising the children properly then you have every right to speak up and demand a change. It is your right as the parent to know even the negative aspects of your child's day and you are paying them to adequately supervise and care for your child.

By Mrsheidi on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 10:34 pm:

How could it be worse? Go with your instincts...ALWAYS

By Kittycat_26 on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 07:58 am:

I won't get back on my soapbox of daycares again. Go with your gut on this one.

1. If you can, pull him out. Though as a working mom, I know that this may not be immediately possible and other arrangements might have to be made.

2. Complain both to the center director in writing with all of the problems that you have had and send it to their licensing board.

3. Chances are if you are having these problems, someone else might be also. Talk to some of the other parents.

On another note, Kim, I can't imagine 12 children aged 12-18 months with only two staff. At that age, I had some real issues with Timmy biting and hitting and our ratio was 1:3. They still had trouble keeping their eyes on him and preventing it sometimes. In MD, the ratio doesn't go to 1:6 until they are 2 years old and even that seems like a lot.

By Kim on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:35 pm:

I have issues with it also Amanda! Yes, there is biting and hitting. The last lead teacher I had was awesome. We worked as a great team and were able to shadow the aggressors. But we had worked toegtehr a long time and had our routine/system down. I have never worked with another lead like that. I don't know if they never threw us help because they knew we could handle it or what. Occasionally we would get a third pair of hands, but it was not routine. The place I work is CHEAP. To me it is at the expense of the kids. I don't want to work there anymore because of the high numbers/ratios. Honestly, I am just about burned out on daycare all together. I am so exhausted when I get home that I don't want to deal with my own kids! Right now we have a 2:8 ratio in my room and its great, but it can always go up to twelve.

By Cocoabutter on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 04:38 pm:

I run the risk of offending someone, so I will try to approach with caution. I have posted Anon before, but someone posted and said that if you post a response, you should be willing to stand behind it.

We were deep in debt when ds was born, and at the time, two incomes were necessary. I did whatever I could do to avoid putting him in daycare. It's not just that I didn't want someone else caring for him on a regular basis, but it wasn't like we could afford it, either. I worked out of the home until he was just 5 months old, and I had a wonderful lady who took him into her care part-time for a nominal fee. She still remains a good friend, and she was so good with him, but I worried about not forming a bond with my son, and I knew that our arrangement couldn't last forever. Nothing that good ever does.

Then I did daycare in my home for 4-1/2 years, until my ds was 5. I can tell you right now that, tho I tried, I could not form bonds with all the kids. I could not care for them all as tho they were my own, give them love and support, have patience with them, or put my heart in my job. Dealing with parents who didn't seem to care as much about their own child's care as I even did made the job just that much more difficult.

After 9/11, I lost all my daycare kids. Two moved away, one mom lost her job, and another went into pre-school. I had to find a job outside the home again, and I was forunate enough to land a job with flexible hours so that I worked around my dh's schedule and we didn't need daycare. One of us was always home with ds. Was it difficult? You BET it was. Was I frustrated? You BET I was. But, everytime I thought about how hard I was working, and everytime my dh and I got stressed, we always came back to our ds- we were doing what was best for him- keeping him out of daycare and at home where he knew he always had a parent to come home to who really took a vested interest in his well-being.

My dh and I came together and worked towards the goal of bringing me home full-time. We developed a plan for accelerated debt reduction and, over the last year I worked, had paid off almost a third of our debt. The rest we wrapped into a home refinance, and I came home in February, a little sooner than we had planned, but my body couldn't keep up with the pace much longer.

My point is that we did what we knew was right for our son, and we worked hard and did what it took to make that happen.

There sometimes comes a time when we as parents have to take stock of our lifestyles and re-evaluate our goals. I can tell you that now, life is much simpler, and much less stressful, and much more healthy for our family.

By Andi on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 04:52 pm:

I was a preschool teacher in CA for 4 years before I became a SAHM and I know for a fact that they should have given you an accident report if DS was hurt. I would complain to the director again and let her know what your DH saw when he went to the school to pick up your son.
I would also be very upset if my DS or DD had a dirty diaper when I picked them up...that is unacceptable!

I really think you should look into a new daycare/preschool, this one sounds really bad. You should look for one that is accredited and make sure you can come to the school and visit at any time. The director of the school should try to help you with your problems and try to solve them with you.

By Cocoabutter on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 05:01 pm:

Sorry- I lost the point of Nicosmom's post that started this thread.

Nicosmom, I would seriously consider taking Nico out of preschool altogether until you get him potty-trained. Then, look for a preschool that is held in a more academic setting. Check with your local school district to see what programs they have available. There may even be a state-sponsored program in your area that provides free tuition for preschool if certain criteria are met. At least, our state has one.

I feel that 3 may be too young to place a child in a school setting. At that age, it's more of a daycare setting. The older kids get, the more able they are to focus for longer periods of time, thus the more teachable they become. The child I had in my daycare that I lost when his mom put him in preschool had just turned 4. The only reason she did that was because I had helped her potty-train him first, which was good because she couldn't find a preschool that took kids that were NOT potty-trained. I often joke with her that I should never have potty-trained her son- then I would still get to baby-sit him! He was one of the few kids I formed a bond with because we had hime for the entire time we did daycare. We still visit.

If I have offended anyone with my last post, I apologize. I just feel so sorry for the kids who are in daycare and don't feel they have an adult around that they they can really depend on and who takes a sincere interest in each child's well-being, which seems an impossible task given the circumstances in the daycare industry these days. I just wanted to share with everyone what we have accomplished.

By Kaye on Monday, September 13, 2004 - 05:10 pm:

When your mommy instinct says "I know this isn't right, but I am not sure what to do" you really need to do something. So your choices are complain, complain and then check up that things are being changed. Or move him. I second feonas decision, as hard as it can be to readjust there are few things I regret more than not moving my child when I knew I should. it was the longest year of my life and if I had it to do again I would in a heartbeat! I have done childcare in the past and I will agree with cocoa's post, you can't love them all, but I bet you can find one that will love your son and you will be MUCH happier!