My daughter driving me CRAZY!!!!
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive July-December 2004:
My daughter driving me CRAZY!!!!
I have a 4, 3 and 2 year old. Actually, she's not quite 2 yet, but lately she has been driving me NUTS!! Nothing makes her happy, she's always crying! She's usually a happy baby, but she does this sort of grunt/whine thing, that drives me so crazy! She also throws herself on the floor doing the same grunt/whine thing & she screams as soon as one teeny tiny thing happens that she doesn't like. For example, if it's time for breakfast & she's in her chair & the other 2 are in their chairs waiting to eat & I have to, let's say, go get a clean dish toewel from the other room: then she will explode into a hysteric fit, crying & screaming. If I am holding her & she wants down she does the same thing. I never know what she wants. Today I put her down when I was holding her cause she was doing that & she threw herself on the ground screaming. She sounds like a spoiled brat, right?
Neither of my 2 older children ever did that. Maybe they threw 1 tantrum in their lives & I ignored it and they stopped! If I ignore HER, she goes ballistic & keeps doing it. She wouldn't stop crying & so I put her in her room by herself and she's been in there crying ever since. This is why I don't think it's an attention thing. They all 3 each get alone time with me, and the 2 oldest are going to pre-school in a couple of weeks (less than 2 weeks!)
I am just at my wits end! I thought the newborn time was the only time you would have to but the baby in her bed & walk away, but she just won't stop!
Do you think that she's sick or something? It seems more like spoiled acting to me because as long as she's getting her way (whatever that may be at the moment) she's fine, lovable, etc. But then when something (unknown what it is to me) upsets her, she explodes!
Both my husband and myself are pretty even tempered, and we don't scream at her or spank her, so I don't think she sees anger & acts like that! I don't know what her problem is!
Oh, and my husband thinks that it's because my Grandma spoils them when they are over there. She does spoil them, but they are only over there at the MOST once a week & usually it's more like once every 2 weeks!
Any suggestions for me?
Well...I hope you get a good response cuz mine is doing the same thing, lol! He is rotten lately. He will be 2 in August and he does not talk as well as i think he should by now. My dd could say the alpahbet by 2 and he just says single words. Sometimes i think that he does this out of frustration of not knowing how to say what he wants or needs. It drives me insane as well. Some days i just go upstairs and let dh handle it cuz i am so beat. We are trying our best to teach him to talk better but he gets angry if it sounds like we are trying to teach him! Well good luck and i hope it passes soon!
Well, obviously her temperament is different from your other kids, so you will have to come at this from a whole different way. What worked for the other two, will not work for your youngest, as you've discovered.
Have you used 123Magic, by chance? Sometimes it works for these more challenging kids and sometimes it doesn't. Or it will work for a few months to a year and not work, but it's a try. The Explosive Child is good, too, but your daughter might be too young.
Don't know if you are a spanker, but spanking tends to make these kids even worse, more explosive, so I wouldn't go that route.
I would not blame you're parenting or grandma's spoiling her or anything like that. Kids are just different. You're older two were easy and now you have one that's not so easy. What helped my little tempramental boy (who was simply AWFUL at that age!!!!) was putting him in full time daycare (at age 23 months). The teachers could pass him around as they grew frustrated and burned out with him and after a couple of months he became downright pleasant *most of the time. He also learned to WAIT. He's 9 now and is quite delightful, but he is ADHD and dyslexic. So there were issues. But he's not explosive or angry.
Some people call these kids Spirited Kids, Difficult Child, Willful Children, Challenging Kids, Explosive Children (Inflexible, Low Frustration Level) and other names. Course, it could just be the terrible two's gone wild, but if you're gut is telling you this is more than that, at some point you might want to talk to the doctor.
Oh, and mine had speech issues, too.
I can add a few more names to that list  LOL
We have spanked our children in the past, but the baby doesn't get spanked. The older kids don't anymore either. Even if we did spank her, I know better than to do it for this, she'd probably give herself a heart attack, she's already ballistic!!!
Another thing I thought is thatmaybe since she's smaller than the other 2, she maybe feels bullied around or something because one thing that sets her off is if she wants a toy that they are playing with, or if they take one from her. Maybe since she can't express herself she just screams like she's CRAZY!!!
I think the 123 thing may work, I guess we'll see! It stilll works for the oler ones!
I am a very calm person, so I just look at her while she's tantruming (is that a word?)
and often just ignore it, but she keeps on. We went to eat on 4th of July & the other 2 were sitting at the table, talking, playing quietly, waiting to eat & the baby had to be the one to scream loudly & embarass us in the restaurant! Right now she's walking all around the house pusing her baby in the little stroller & she's OK, as long as she does not see soemthing that she wants or no one touches her, I think she'll be ok.
When we go back to the Dr. I will probably talk to her about it. In the meantime, when she gets to be too much to handle, I will just send her to her room for a while. The screaming really grates on my neerves after a while.
I have to agree with the different temperment. My oldest would scream in his room for over an hour at a time when he was sent there...very persistent. He would hit, kick, and try to lash out at me anyway he could...very very difficult child. I am very strict with him because he is the kind of child if I let him get away with something he will walk all over me and he will get harder and harder to handle. The middle gets upset if you raise your voice the slightest to him. The youngest is worse than the first. Each child has their own personality.
I do have to say 123 can work IF they know you are going to follow it up with something but my kids would just stare at me with "now what??" on their face and then I had to jump into action anyway. Removing them and ignoring them will work you just have to prepare yourself for a long wait with a strong willed child. When you put them in their room make sure you tell them you will not let them out until they are done screaming, whatever you do don't open the door (unless you hear things breaking). Mine would lay down in the floor and scream under the crack to be certain I heard him, I would yell at the door (the only way he would hear me through his own yelling) "you may come out when you can stop crying or you calm down" and continue to ignore him...or at least let him think I was (it was really difficult for me). When he finally did stop I would give him a few more minutes and go to him and tell him "I love you too much to let you act that way". For him he was so caught up in the moment that he would not feel a spanking, could not hear what I was telling him, and the only thing that worked for mine was to be removed.
I know some people don't care much for Dobson but I think every parent should read "Dare to Discipline" and "The strong willed child".
Good Luck, my DD is the same way and shes only going on 14 months. You know its bad when you go to the Dr. and the first thing the Dr. says is, "Boy can she throw a tantrum, you'd better start working on that!" Geesh, so embarrassing. Let me know if you find a way to fix it because at my DDs age she too young for some stuff mentioned above. Ignoring her has never worked, I actually think its made her worse. Spanking doesn't work. Next i'm trying time out in the room. I'm determined to beat this stage.
This book has been helpul in our house. In fact, I need to pull it out and skim through again.
From Dr. Phil's site:
How to Stop a Temper Tantrum in Seconds
Dr. Harvey Karp is a board-certified pediatrician, associate professor of pediatrics at UCLA School of Medicine and the author of the book and DVD The Happiest Toddler on the Block, in bookstores now. He offers advice on understanding your toddler and how to stop your child's temper tantrum in seconds:
It helps to think of your toddler as sort of a caveman. With all their grunting and grabbing, toddlers often seem quite primitive. To communicate with them, you have to speak in a primitive and almost prehistoric type of language — Toddler-ese — with lots of gestures. It needs to be as energetic and dramatic as the child is being. To speak Toddler-ese, use:
Short phrases.
Tons of repetition.
A passionate tone of voice.
Lots of exaggerated facial expressions and body gestures (like big smiles, frowns and vigorous pointing).
Parents do this already when a child is happy, they're way over the top. But when kids are upset, parents try to be calm and logical. Parents need to be over the top whether the child is happy or upset.
Follow the Fast-Food Rule. This rule is simple: When your child is upset, you should take a lesson from the order-takers at a burger joint — always repeat back his "order" (what he wants) before you tell him your "price" (what you want). Toddlers who are in the middle of a meltdown are incapable of hearing our message (our reasons, reassurance, distraction or warning) until they're sure we understand and respect their message. So when your tot is upset, before you mention your ideas, take a minute to sincerely describe what he's doing and how you think he feels.
When using Toddler-ese and the Fast-Food Rule, children are much more reasonable because they feel respected and heard. Otherwise, they don't think we understand them.
Here's an example. Your bored 15-months-old child toddles over to the front door, bangs on it and screeches to go to the yard. Whether you intend to go out or not, the first thing you should do is reflect his message by energetically and lovingly saying, "Out! Out! Out!! You say, 'Go, Mommy, go, GO!!!'" Once your son calms a little, then you can go out with him or offer some options or a distraction.
If your child is screaming because you took away the lipstick he was using as a crayon, passionately echo his feelings by saying, "You want! YOU want!!! You want it nowwww!! You want! YOU want!! You want it nowwww!!" Notice the repetition, the short phrasing, and the way the sentence builds up to the final emphasized word. You should be energetic, but never shouting.
Don't be surprised if it takes four or five repetitions before you even begin to get your little buddy's attention! You'll know you're making progress when he suddenly looks up, as if he's thinking, What? Did you say sumptin'? But don't stop then. When he's really upset, you may need to repeat his feelings another five to 10 times before he realizes that you really "get it" and that you're on his side.
For more information about Dr. Karp, see his first appearance on the show: "Parenting 101: FAQ's" and his technique for calming a crying baby or go to www.thehappiestbaby.com.
AND
If your child is throwing temper tantrums, Dr. Phil says he might be trying to communicate a need.
Uncover the Need
Remember that all behavior is a way of communicating. When your child is screaming or throwing himself on the floor, that behavior is telling you about a need. You need to find out what need your child is trying to convey. Does he need some autonomy? Does he need to feel safe, feel accepted, loved or appreciated? Once you understand your child's needs, you can meet him in more effective ways instead of trying to simply maintain power over him.
Manipulate the Schedule
You know your schedule and you know your child's schedule. Plan ahead if you anticipate a temper tantrum. For example, if your child throws a fit because he doesn't like you picking out his clothes for him, don't pick his clothes and fight about it five minutes before you have to leave the house.
Walk Away
If your child has the temper tantrum you anticipated, you have planned for it and have the time to allow it to happen and for the child to see that it doesn't work. There are times when you have to say, "There are some things that Mommy decides and when we get to those things, Mommy decides." Then you can let your child decide some other things. Dr. Phil tells parents when their kids fall on the floor and throw a tantrum, to walk away. "Take the power away from them by showing them that behavior doesn't work," says Dr. Phil.
The Bottom Line
If you listen to your child's needs instead of the awful racket he's making, you can better control his behavior and teach the child better ways of getting what he needs. During this process, remember to avoid confrontation with your child at all costs. But when you do have a confrontation, never lose.
HTH - I just have a 10mo - so we haven't entered this stage...yet...
Thanks Amyk, I love Dr. Karp! I am trying to figure out what she needs, but she's not talking too much yet. Boy is she having a rough day today!
Boxgrl, When my other 2 were little, the Dr. had asked me "are they throwing tantrums yet?" and I was like "no, I mean maybe once but I ignored them & they didn't do it anymore" Now I'm ready to take her there & tell the Dr. to cure her! LOL
So far the 123 thing just makes her count. She goes on to 4, 5, 6... This just temporarily makes her calm, but then she still won't sit down on the couch (rather than standing), without some tantrum!!!
Looks like I'll be hitting e-bay this afternoon looking for those 3 books! Thank you for all yuor suggestions so far!
And to think, I thought I was a pro at this parenting stuff by now! LOL
I just wanted to say ignoring them does make it worse at first because they are seeing how far they can push you until you react, it is one of those things that will get worse before it gets better.
For the youngest I put him in his crib or high chair because I know he will be safe, I think with my first one I waited to long thinking "it's the terrible 2's" (even though it was early about 12 months he started) and it was much harder to stop him by time I realized it was a real problem.
My DS is the same way, very tempermental. He has other issues, so I'm not sure what is going on, I woun't know until he's evaluated. I think I'm going to try the book Trina mentioned... a lot of moms here recommend it.
Oh, I remembered one more thing - ya know I blocked this stage out of my brain it was so awful - When my little guy had a *lovely* tantrum at the pedi's office when he was 2, the doc said put him in his room and close the door when he has any anti-social behavior like this. I asked for how long, 5 minutes? And he said hours if that's what it takes for him to stop tantruming and act civil. And I did that. It helped both of us. At first he was in there for hours.
My youngest just turned 3 and it was like a switch went on just before 2 and went off about 2 months ago. She sounds a lot like yours. I think she felt like she had to be louder and more of a fit-thrower in order to be heard by her older siblings (and myself, sometimes!) There is just less of me to go around and more demands on my time. She is more regimented than the other two and if her schedule is interrupted, or what she wants wasn't done, she threw a fit. Most of it, I think, was due to frustration that she couldn't communicate her wants and desires. I used the book S.O.S. For Parents and it was really helpful at calm parenting. I also like the sound of the Love & Logic parenting style. I don't think it is a good idea to put her in her room for hours if you think it is due to frustration about communication. The Dr. Phil reccomended idea of repeating their wants is really helpful. I would say " You don't want to go to bed, you don't want to go to bed, you don't want to go to bed, right?" Wait for an answer, then " You don't want to go to bed but it is time to sleep and after the alarm clock goes off, you can get up." This worked great with my daughter but it did take about a week for her to really get it. Good luck and it may not last forever.
Check out Parenting.com
http://www.parenting.com/parenting/index.html
Dr. Sears has an article on tantrums....
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