I'm sorry butI'm posting as anonymous on this one.It's too sensitive and I don't want it to get back to DH .
This is driving me nuts !! ( among other things !). DH has this dangerous tendency to leave DS in his car seat in the running car while he "runs in real quick " to get take out food , dry cleaning , ATM booth, you name it!!I'm at the end of my wits and really scared when he takes DS with him on these errands. Sometimes, to avoid my "nagging" he'll just say he's taking DS for a little ride around the block and come home with ATM cash or dry cleaning.I am so angry over this sort of careless attitude. We've read about a few cases of car thieves taking off with the running car and unknowingly taking the baby in the back seat along!!There was an incident in New York lately when a mom ran into a store to get milk and left her 2 year old in the running car and a car thief took off with the car! An Amber Alert was issued and they found the baby safe after 12 hours of torturing wait for the poor mom.
I mean these are regular parents too who just made a careless mistake and paid for it. Thank God the baby turned up unharmed.
I don't know how to get it across to DH that this is a serious issue. We always end up fighting over this. He thinks I'm being paranoid, controlling, not showing enough trust in his parenting responsibilities etc etc. AND he says he always keeps an eye and an ear out for trouble of this sort while running his errands and he 'd be out to the car in a jiffy should anything look or sound suspicious.Unbelievable!! How on earth do you manage to focus on a baby in a running car while talking to the dry cleaner, using your credit card or ATM card behind CLOSED doors of a restaurant or an ATM booth !!!. It takes only seconds for someone to steal a car that's running (or not ).!!Help me Lord!
In all other ways he is a very good father I must say and a lovely husband.
But DS is our one and only and I feel very strongly about this. In the meantime DH continues to take DS for " a ride around the block "!!

By Feona on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 08:02 am:

They take kids away for that. I have seem the police around the car. I don't think I would let him take the child for a ride around the block anymore...

By Kate on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 08:08 am:

You have to put your son first. I would refuse to allow him to go anywhere alone with your son. Have your baby's pediatrician talk to him if that would help. It is, as you know, extremely dangerous. Perhaps, since he doesn't understand this kidnapping danger, you could show him another danger--your car could get HIT while it's outside and your son would be terrified and alone. If your husband were IN the car with your son he might see the oncoming car and blow his horn to warn the other car that he's there, and if he did get hit he'd be able to describe the accident to the police, etc. Also tell him that the store/cleaners/bank/etc. that he goes to could get held up at gunpoint while he's in there and he'd be unable to leave and get to your son. There are so many possibilities! It's so dangerous! How old is your son? Is he old enough to TELL your husband that it's scary being left in the car alone? I don't understand why your husband would want to drive your son around the block and come home with cleaning. When I run errands I try to avoid taking the kids! Why is he purposely doing this? Is it a control issue between the two of you and he's unfortunately using your son as the weapon? I don't mean to be harsh, but it just doesn't make sense. Most adults are aware of the danger of doing what he does, and when his wife is so opposed to it, and yet he still does it and even SNEAKS doing it....well, things don't sound right. It sounds like he's got an agenda perhaps.

Good luck, you're a good mom to see the problem, now you really have to put your foot down. If he wants to take baby for a 'ride' make sure you INSIST on going along, too. You'll never forgive yourself if you don't and something happens.

By Sunny on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 08:57 am:

If you live in the US, what state do you live in? According to the website Kids in Cars, some states have a law regarding this. Maybe if you're state is listed, the fear of being charged with a crime might change his mind. If not, show him the website anyway: Kids in Cars. You never know, it might get him to change his mind. In the meantime, I'd prevent him from taking the baby OR go along for the ride. It sounds like not only does your DH fail to see the danger in doing this, but he is slowly losing your trust.

By Anonymous on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 09:28 am:

That's a good point. I thought the kid gets taken away if the car is locked and the kid is inside in extreme temperatures. I should get more info on that one.
I have say that dh is an absolutely amazing dad in every other way.We have a very strong marriage too . I mean all thru pregnancy, labor, c section, breastfeeding misadventures , colic etc etc dh has been up many many many many nights with ds so I could get some rest.He sings beautiful lullabys when ds is sick,, he danced the wild Indian dance with ds during colic attacks to calm him down , I mean he's been an awesome husband and father. That's why I don't understand this attitude. He says I'm too critical of his parenting style and sometimes I am BUT he can't take a chance with ds because of his issues with me !
This errand thing happens on the weekends only and last couple I've put my foot down and didn't let him take ds. Dh had a huge meltdown but left it alone when he got back. He just doesn't seem to get it that those 15 or 30 seconds that he is out of sight can be life altering for all of us.
Dh has a lot of mother issues as well. His mom was very neglectful and she openly admits to that blaming it on their poverty and her having too many kids and too little time or energy.
Also I suspect Dh does understand the dangers of what he does and has stopped doing it a while back BUT just tells me he's still doing it just to get back at my so called controlling attitude. I really think that might be it. Dh DOTES on ds and doesn't even let friends with a mild cold into the house if ds is going to be there. He is very protective except for this issue.
So, I'll get the legal info and maybe follow dh oneday to see if he is still doing this crazy thing. I really think he's just trying to upset me and not really doing it anymore.It sounds crazy but once is ok and I'll be right there should he still do it . It might help solve this whole issue. It's getting ridiculous and I've not been letting ds go with dh anymore.

Thanks so very very much

By Conni on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 09:35 am:

This would make me upset too. I dont have much advice you have already been given good advice above. Good luck resolving this with your dh.

By Trina~moderator on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 09:36 am:

{{{HUGS}}} I certainly understand your concern and frustrations! Ditto everything said above. In my state (CT) it's illegal to leave kids in a vehicle unsupervised for any length of time. You're well aware of the dangers. I agree with Kate and Sunny. I wouldn't allow him to take the baby on his own OR I'd insist on going along with him. *IF* it's illegal in your state someone else could report him and you could risk losing your son. Keep putting your foot down. I hope your DH sees the light soon.

By Kaye on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 01:36 pm:

interesting website. I went and read some of the laws. I admit I do leave my kids in the car at times, never with it running, never when it is hot outside (over 70) and only to pay gas type stuff. The texas law is no one under the age of 7 and not longer than five minutes. I follow those guidelines. It was interesting reading. Trina I think CT says you can't do it for any length of time that could be harmful, but doesnt' say it is illegal. I think everyone should pop on to the website and read it.

By Mommmie on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 01:41 pm:

I think in Texas you can leave them for 5 minutes only. I thought I read that in the paper.

I'm not sure how you can convince him not to do it. If it's too much trouble to take the baby into the restaurant, dry cleaners, etc. why does he even want to take him in the first place?

By Lauram on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 02:55 pm:

I know people who have been arrested for this in CT. I think Trina is right.

By Mommyathome on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 03:14 pm:

Ditto everything above This is not a safe thing to do. You can be ticketed or even arrested for child neglect if you do things like that. Not to mention it is extremely unsafe and unwise.
I would do all I could to stop the behavior. Maybe look up some laws and print them out for your DH to look at. Maybe find some of the cases where kids have been left only for a moment and ended up kidnapped etc. Print them and let him read them. Maybe he'll understand a little more!
Good luck!

By Dana on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 03:41 pm:

Would he attend a safely lecture?

Perhaps you could contact your local police department and set up a workshop for parents. Maybe your chruch or a school could host it?

Maybe he just needs to hear it from someone besides you. Particularly someone in the field of police or EMS who deal w/ what goes wrong when this is done.

Do you have any friends in those fields? Invite them for dinner and let it just become part of the after dinner conversation.

By Dananivyboo1 on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 04:25 pm:

A few months ago close to here a mother left her DD in the car seat while she just walked the cart to the cart return which was only 50(approx) feet away. The baby was taken in just those few moment. They found the baby within 2 hours, but just goes to show how something can always happen that quickly.

I can totally understand how upset you are and only thing I can suggest is talk to him seriously.Many things happen within the blink of the eye.

By Mrsmariohead on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 04:49 pm:

If he continues doing this, and you have completely voiced your concerns... I think you should plot a little "sting" if you will. Maybe... follow him to wherever he's going, and if he leaves the car running with your DS in it, then you could take the car without him knowing. I guarantee he'd learn his lesson.

By Trina~moderator on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 05:41 pm:

This information was taken from SafeKids.org.

Connecticut Unattended Children In Cars Law

Children under the age of 12 may not be left unsupervised in a motor vehicle. *

* Please note that even if a state does not have a specific law prohibiting adults from leaving children unattended, state and local prosecuters have the discretion to criminally charge adults under existing child endangerment laws.

Enforcement

All offenses are punishable by a maximum term and/or fine of no more than $2000, however, if a child is left unattended between 8pm-6am that presents a substantial risk to the child's health and safety. The penalty is considered a Class C Felony, which carries a prison term in excess of 1 yr. and/or a fine of no more than $10,000

By Cat on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 06:16 pm:

A friend of mine had a case of child neglect against her and had to go to court because her 4yo dd fell asleep in the van and she left her there for 10 minutes to run into Wal-Mart. Was it stupid of her? Yes! Will she ever do it again? I'll bet not. Lesson learned the hard way. I'm sure this will come back and bite her in the butt because she's getting divorced and they go to court next week for custody.

Not only could someone take the child, but another car could hit your car with your child in it. I think I'd explain (ever so gently) to dh that we do EVERYTHING in our power to keep our child safe and this just doesn't jive. It's just not a smart move. Good luck getting through to him. I know my dh has taken to leaving our ds's (8 and 10) home alone while he jogs. He usually does this in the evening when I'm at a meeting or something or on Saturday morning while I grocery shop. I've told him I don't like it but he says "It's only for like 45 minutes." SO??? Heck, my oldest is ADHD and bipolar. Do you have any idea what he could do in 45 minutes??? Scary thoughts...

By Kaye on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 06:42 pm:

This is from the website mentioned earlier.

Connecticut State Law
SB 1017
An act concerning the penalty for leaving a child unsupervised in a place of public accommodation or motor vehicle.
(a) Any parent, guardian or person having custody or control, or providing supervision, of any child under the age of twelve years knowingly leaves such child unsupervised in a place for a period of time that presents a vehicle for a period of time that presents a substantial risk to the child's health or safety, shall be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.
(b) Any parent, guardian or person having custody or control, or providing supervision, of any child under the age of twelve years knowingly leaves such child unsupervised in place of public accommodation, which holds a permit issued under chapter 545 of the general statutes for the sale of alcoholic liquor for consumption on the premises, for a period of time that presents a substantial risk to the child's health or safety, shall be guilty of a Class D felony.
(c) Any parent, guardian or person having custody or control, or providing supervision, of any child under the age of twelve years knowingly leaves such child unsupervised in place of public accommodation or motor vehicle between the hours of eight o'clock p.m. and six o'clock a.m. for a period of time that presents a substantial risk to the child's health or safety, shall be guilty of a Class C felony

i think it is interesting that there is a descrepency...now I have to go read the texas one at your site..LOL

By Trina~moderator on Monday, January 5, 2004 - 07:08 pm:

Kaye, Either site, it's still illegal. I found the discrepancies interesting as well. I tend to think the SafeKids.org site is more credible/reliable because it's a national organization as opposed to the Kids In Cars site, which appears to be privately run. Regardless, despite what specific state laws say leaving kids unattended in cars is not a good idea, period. To borrow a phrase from the Child Passenger Safety World - "It's not about laws, it's about lives."

By Anonymous on Tuesday, January 6, 2004 - 04:52 pm:

Mrsmariohead , I love that idea!Maybe I will. Thanks a bunch you guys for all the ideas, info and support . I truly appreciate it. This is going to come to an end one way or another and I'm sure we'll resolve it peacefully. The legal issues are pretty binding from what I see and all the other incidents you guys have related will be a tremendous help. Thanks so very much

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 02:07 pm:

Anon - don't you think your dh would be really furious if you tried Mrsmariohead's idea? If it were me (and I was stupid enough to leave a baby in an unattended place, car or otherwise) I would be in a flaming rage if someone walked off with the baby "to teach me a lesson".

By Tonya on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 02:47 pm:

I think it is a good way to teach him a lesson. Better her taking the car to show him it can happen then a stranger. I say go for it if he doesn't realize the impact before he sure will after. You know even if he does see you doing it if you show him how quickly you can get away without him being able to do anything about it then you are still getting your point across.

By Kaye on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 03:58 pm:

Oh I am on Ginny's side. I would be furious. As parents we are the adults, that means games of "I'll show you" are just inappropriate. Hopefully he will listen, but I still don't think it is okay to "kidnap" your own child.

By Anonymous on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 - 05:59 pm:

Ginny, Ofcourse he would be furious ! IF I do that I would probably just drive to a the nearest parking spot so he can see the car after a minute or 2 of panicking. He says he always has an eye and an ear out so I'd like to see if that's indeed true.I would never just drive off !! All of this is IF he is still doing it as I mentioned before . He might very well have stopped and just says it to bug me.
We had a talk last night and things seem much much better. I related all of the above information and everything was smooth and non confrontational.DH was very understanding . Lets see how it goes.

By Ginny~moderator on Thursday, January 8, 2004 - 06:49 am:

Anon, if you really, really, feel you must "teach im a lesson", I strongly suggest that you just get into the car and sit there. He would probably be much more embarassed than angry that way and still get the message. IMO, even causing him a minute or two of panic is much too much panic for a parent to suffer.

As parents, we have more than enough reasons to panic without adding an artificial reason just to teach a lesson that might well be taught with less drastic measures.