Last night, we thought we would try letting our 7 m/o cry it out when she awoke in the night. Some nights she sleeps solid but more frequently she will wake up 1-2 times and we'll get up and give her a pacifier and she is right back to sleep. I'm afraid this trend will continue unless she learns to fall back asleep on her own. Last night, we peeked at her to make sure she was all right and listened to her cry for 10 minutes and noticed that she was crying so hard that she was kind of twitching her head from taking short gasps of air in between. I didn't think it looked right so I picked her up and got her back to sleep. She wasn't looking blue or out of breath or anything but can CIO ever hurt them in any way? Should we be concerned that she doesn't sleep solid on a routine basis at this age? If we ask our ped, she says "yes, she should be sleeping solid routinely". Do you guys think that if we continue to get up and give her a pacifier, will that hurt her in the long run? For those of you who have tried CIO, did it get pretty terrible at times?

By Bethk on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 05:55 pm:

I have a post over in the general discussion similar to this one except my dd is 18 months old and wakes up anywhere between 2-6 times a night. It's under sleepless in Ga. If you get any good advice please let me know. THANKS

By Gammiejoan on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 09:09 pm:

First of all, Wendy, I need to say that anything that follows is just my personal feelings on the subject, and I am sure that you will find many others who disagree. While I don't totally disagree with the crying it out method, I feel that your daughter may be a little too young. I would still go to her at night when she cries out, pat her and assure her that everything is o.k., and then leave the room. If she starts crying again at that point, I would let her cry for ten or fifteen minutes to see if she can get herself back to sleep. If she has no health problems of which you are aware, then I doubt if crying it out will harm her in any way. I don't find it to be unusual at all for a child of seven months to be awakening at night although I agree that it would be better for all of you if she were sleeping through the night. If I were you, though, I would consider trying to get her off the pacifier if at all possible. She may be awakening because she loses her pacifier at night. Good luck with whatever you try to do.

By Pamt on Wednesday, December 3, 2003 - 10:21 pm:

I'll *try* to make this brief because I have a huge paper to write for school, but brevity is not one of my talents . I am a big advocate of letting children cry it out and I started it at about 6 months of age. First of all, I agree with Joan that the pacifier should go. All non-nutritive sucking needs are met at this age and it is merely a confort habit. Now is time to develop a different self-soothing habit...maybe let her pick out a stuffed animal or snuggle with a favorite blanket. Now is the easiest time ever to lose the passy because your DD is starting to get mobile and interested in lots of things.

Do you rock her to sleep or put her to bed awake? To soothe herself back to sleep at night she needs to start off the night getting herself to sleep. If you don't already have a bedtime routine I would encourage you to start one like bath, story, rocking, kiss, and bed. Watch for her signals that you can tell she's getting drowsy. My boys always rubbed their ears a funny way and I knew that it was optimum bedtime. Put her in her crib, kiss her, tell her you love her, and say good night--with her comfort object in place. She may fuss, may cry, but if you can survive about 3 nights the problem is solved. LITERALLY, with both of my boys it took 3 nights of crying, for shorter durations each night, until they were able to get themselves to sleep and it stuck. It worked! Those 3 nights were horrible and I questioned and second-guessed myself and the one hour they cried felt like 6 hours, but the results were worth it. They have both always been good sleepers and both even napped through kindergarten-age. People say that breastfed babies may need to eat more during the night too, but mine were both nursed for a full year, slept 11-12 hours a night, and were in the 90th percentile for height and weight with no night feedings.

I highly recommend the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Children" by Marc Weissbluth who is a pediatrician and a sleep disorders specialist. The Farber method (going in, comforting the child, leaving, and waiting longer before going in again--in a nutshell) to me is bad operant conditioning and more confusing to the child. I think it sends the message "If I cry long and hard enough mommy will come--here she is--yay mommy!!--wait she's leaving---I need to cry long and hard again (just because I'm bored)---hey here she is again--I know she'll pick me up---wait she's just patting me and leaving again--I better cry REALLY hard this time" and creates a vicious cycle.

I will give you a money-back guarantee that if you can stick it out 3-5 days you'll have a good sleeper on your hands. At least it worked twice for me. Before or during CIO do peek in (but don't let her see you) to make sure she's not sick or having any other problem besides boredom or just awakening and not being able to get herself to sleep. Once she learns to self-soothe you've given her a great gift that she will carry through life.

By Sunny on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 09:28 am:

I'm not a fan of CIO. I tried it with my oldest (now 15), but he was older than 7 months and I couldn't do it. I know other parents have done it and it's worked for them, but you have to do what you are comfortable with. Keep in mind that all babies are different and there isn't one technique that will work with all babies.

What do you mean by "sleeping soundly"? At 7 months, none of my kids slept for more that 6 hours at a stretch, but this could be considered sleeping throught the night. Actually, my kids were a year old before they slept for 8-10 hours a night. Are you breast or bottle feeding? For me, it was easier to bring them into my bed and nurse them whenever they woke up rather than "train" them to go back to sleep on their own in the middle of the night. They were always more comfortable and content in my bed than on their own. Many nights, they would wake up from teething pain or illness or just because they were uncomfortable and I could get them back to sleep without problem. Other nights, it didn't matter what I did, nothing worked and they would cry or be ready to play, but that's to be expected. You need to find what's best for you and go with it. Get rid of the pacifier, establish a bedtime routine and try a couple of techniques to see which one works best for you and your daughter.

BTW, I did co-sleep with all (5) of my kids until I weaned them (around 15-18 months). I never experienced any major problems transitioning them to their own beds and getting them to sleep through the night after that. While they did continue to come into my bed in the middle of the night, they stopped on their own by the time they were 4 yrs old. The only sleep problems they ever had were NOT wanting to get out of bed in the morning.

By Sunny on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 09:34 am:

That should be be "sleeping solid" not soundly.

By Kaye on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 10:25 am:

I am not a fan of CIO. We let someone talk us into with my daughter,, the first night was tough, but she made it, the second night seemed a bit better (although I was a wreck), the third night she cried until she threw up all over her bed (in about 30 minutes). I felt horrible, we went in to check on her after she had fallen asleep and there was vomit all over her bed, we had to wake her and clean it up. So I got to thinking, really what is my job? My job is to raise responsible adults, and in my mind you raise good kid by reassurance and love and I felt like I was abandoning my daughter in her time of need. I personal felt like I could do her best by attending to her. So we put her to bed in her bed, if she woke up, we took her into our bed, she slept the rest of the night and all was well. She is 9 now, sleeps on her own and for plenty of time. As for the paci, yes it is a comfort item. We all have them, some are more socially acceptable than other. I have a thing against thumbsuckers. So my kids kept their paci till two, which at that time we just got rid of it. This is a personal choice. Why is a blanket or a stuffed animal better? Because they don't look as crazy with it as toddlers, but I think 4-5 year olds with blankets look just as silly as a 3 year old w/ith a paci. Parenting is one of those things that there is no right answer, you need to look into your heart and do what you feel is right. For me CIO just didn't feel good, for others it is exactly what they need. I had a dear friend who belived in letting her kids CIO, at night if they woke, she just let them cope. However, they found that it was hard to do, to be in the next room and let them cry. So their plan, was they moved their 8 month old infant into the basement (fully finished nice room), and they slept on the second floor. They couldn't hear her unless she got real upset. I lost sleep over this, I worried that she would get sick and they won't hear her, etc. My point is what seems perfectly reasonable to one person to another seems just cruel. Parents who do believe in CIO think those of us who co sleep are doing our kids a real injustice. So my advice is follow your heart.

By Eve on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 11:02 am:

I also read the Weissbluth book and the Ferber book. This is such a personal decision. Before DD was born, I swore that no child should ever be in bed with the parents. It was dangerous and blah, blah, blah! Well, almost 3 years later, DD is still in bed with us. LOL!

When she turned 6 months old, I tried the Ferber method of going into the room in timed increments and it worked. It got worse before it got better,but it worked. No one ever told me that I would have to keep doing it! It was too much for me. I tried having a walkman and it just didn't work for me. I wish I would have let my DH do it when he offered to listen to it. I felt like my child needed me and I just trusted my instincts and I went and got her.

I will say this...It would have been MUCH easier to deal with a 6 month old, than dealing with a 3 year old. If you think they are stubborn at 6 months, nearly 3 is much worse. If we have another baby, I will probably be more into letting them CIO. Although, I say that now....LOL!

I agree with Kaye. Follow your heart. As a Mom, I do the best job I can. That's all you can do! Good luck. I've so been there and it really is a tough choice to make. Whatever you decide, I don't think you are doing any harm to your child.

By Amy~moderator on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 11:02 am:

I wouldn't say I'm a "fan" of CIO, although I do think it is the most effective way to get your child to sleep at night. I've done it with all three of my boys, and if done correctly, takes about a week tops. It usually took 4 or 5 days for my boys.

Yes, it is an awful thing to have to go through. You want to run to your child after the first 5 to 10 minutes of screaming. But the truth is, once your child learns to go to sleep on her own, and to stay asleep, you will have both taken a big step. Your child will know how to comfort herself, the first step toward independence. You will be able to get a good night's sleep.

You would do well to read up on the Ferber method. Do a google search. Your child is the right age to begin. Dr. Ferber says the age to start is 6 mos. And only expect your child to sleep about 5 or 6 hours straight. As your child gets older, she will sleep longer. You start by letting her cry for a set increment of time, and then going in and patting her (not picking her up or rocking her) in order to reassure her that you are there. Then you leave immediately. Let her cry a little longer, and repeat, increasing the increment of time she cries. This way, you are reassuring her (and yourself, LOL), and she is learning to sleep on her own. I would give it a try using the Ferber method. However, if you are seriously concerned about your child hyperventilating or getting sick, then wait awhile and try again in a few weeks. Definitely consult the pediatrician, but keep in mind that every doctor has his/her own opinion about CIO. It is really a decision that you need to make for yourself. Good luck and keep us posted! HTH Wendy

By Wendyo on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 11:14 am:

Thank you all for the great advice. I am really glad to receive so many different points of view on the matter......that's why I joined this discussion board! Most of you suggested getting rid of the paci and I agree. She didn't have it last night and she slept until 4 a.m. and then it was just a reassuring pat and she was back to sleep until 7:30 a.m. She goes to bed about 10 p.m. That routine consists of bath (every other night), daddy gives bottle of expressed milk or I nurse, Goodnight Moon, rock, laid down drowsy. For the first 4 months or so, we co-slept because of the convenience of nursing in bed. She transitioned to the crib well. In fact, she was sleeping for longer periods on a more regular basis then than now. I guess that's why I'm wondering why she is waking up more in the night nowadays. She has two teeth on the bottom and I wondered if she is working on more teeth. That is one thing that makes it hard for me to CIO because you never know if they are hurting from teething or something! This baby business is tough but for some reason so rewarding......must be those big eyes and grin with two little teeth peeking through. Thanks again for all the great points of view. It is nice to hear what goes on it other households!

By Boxzgrl on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 03:22 pm:

PamT- that is great advice. I'm having the same problem as Wendyo but DD is 6 months old. I put her to bed awake so she puts herself to sleep. Two nights ago she cried nonstop for 50 minutes and I didnt go in the room. DH got up (hes the sucker) and tried to give her the pacifier but then she just screamed as if she were being abused or something. About 15 minutes later she went to bed (w/o the pacifier) and woke up only once after that. Last night was a different story.She went to bed and woke up at 2 am. I ignored her but DH (the sucker, again) went in to try and give her the pacifier and check her diaper and left the room. She cried until 3:30, NON-stop!!! By that time DH was complaining because he had to get up at 5 so I was annoyed by both of them at that time and no longer tired so I just got up and got Kaitlyn out of bed. I didnt give her a bottle I just let her stay up til about 4:30 then she went back to sleep, by herself. How can I make this any easier?? DH thinks i'm being mean to her. I give her only 1 bottle a night as opposed to the 3-4 before. I'm trying to slowly break it down. Do you have any suggestions.....anyone???? Thanks!!

By Sunny on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 03:39 pm:

Letting a 6 month old cry for 50 minutes breaks my heart. Any number of things could have been going on with her. I don't think your DH is a sucker, it sounds more like he was trying a different approach than you were.

I guess I don't understand the rush to get them to sleep as long at night as we do. They're still developing and learning about their world, now is the time to give them as much attention and time as you can. Trust me, one day they will NOT want to be bothered with you or cuddle with you and you'll wonder what happened to your little baby. One day, you'll still be sleeping while they are in the kitchen making themselves breakfast or you'll try to wake them up for school and they'll rollover and ignore you. They are only this small once.

By Boxzgrl on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 08:00 pm:

Sunny- FYI, i've tried the approach of going in every 15 minutes or so to comfort her. She just screams even louder as she is rubbing her eyes and yawning. She was in a safe crib and was just fed, burped, played with and everything thing else. But I do have to sleep sometime. We have plenty of fun and bonding during the day and DH works 12 hr. days so night time is mine and DHs quality time. We still have to bond as a couple and parents to have a healthy relationship. 9 pm is a reasonable bedtime for my DD. She is my first and I have a lot to learn so please dont condemn my parenting style. Im trying! You cant say that about a lot of parents these days.

By Gammiejoan on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 08:37 pm:

I think that these differences of opinion just show that there is not necessarily a right or a wrong way to handle any given situation with your child. Loving parents just need to follow their own hearts and do what they think is best for their children and themselves. It helps to find out from other parents what works best for them, but what works best for one family is not necessarily what will work best for another family.

By Trina~moderator on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 08:48 pm:

Melissa, I'm sure Sunny didn't mean to offend you. I've known her on-line for a few years now and she's a peach. She has 5 kids, so she knows a lot about parenting. The truth is, there are many areas of parenting that people have different feelings about. Nothing is black and white. My advice is to do your own research and have a heart-to-heart chat with DH to find an approach that feels right for YOUR family. Both of you need to present a united front. When kids get mixed signals it causes problems.

CIO - my experience... With my first (DS) I got hardly any sleep whatsoever for the first 5 mos.. I was a walking zombie and simply couldn't take it any longer. I read the Ferber book and did the CIO thing. It was VERY difficult!! DS cried for 1.5 hrs. the first night, 1 hr. the second night and 15 min. the third night. After that he no longer cried when we put him down for bed (awake), and slept for 8-10 hrs. straight. WOO HOO!! I was then a huge Ferber advocate. We had a few relapses after illnesses or teething, etc. but he continued to be a good sleeper after that.

Fast forward to #2 (DD). She had GERD (acid reflux) and was a very fussy, high maintenance baby. Our ped. advised not to let her CIO until we had her reflux under control. At 8 mos. we tried to Ferberize her. She cried for 8 hrs. straight for 2 nights in a row! I'm ashamed to admit that I let it go for that long but I was determined to prove I wasn't being a softie. Everyone kept telling me I was babying her and needed to toughen up. HA!! DD is very strong willed. My ped. was shocked when I told him how long she cried. At that point he agreed CIO wasn't going to work with her. My point is, CIO isn't for every family, and it's not for every child. I ended up taking a much more gradual approach with her. She finally started sleeping through the night at 16 mos., when she weaned from breastfeeding.

Do what YOU think is right. I used to be a CIO advocate until I learned (the hard way) that it simply isn't the way to go for every child or family. I used to think people who didn't let their kids CIO were being push-overs. LOL! Now I *know* better. Discuss this with your DH and find an approach you both feel comfy with.

I found this web site to be helpful when my kids were little.

Different Expert Views on getting baby to sleep

Sleep Index

By Pamt on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 08:58 pm:

Why is a blanket or a stuffed animal better? Because they don't look as crazy with it as toddlers, but I think 4-5 year olds with blankets look just as silly as a 3 year old w/ith a paci.

To respond to your post Kaye, I agree with you that a preschooler hauling a blanket around in public looks as silly as a toddler with a pacifier. However, the reason that I think a blanket or stuffed animal is better is because it doesn't create reverse swallowing patterns which *may* result in later tongue thrust/speech problems and they don't carry it around in their mouths where it: (a)is a breeding ground for bacteria when it is dropped and put back in the mouth without being sterilized (b)it can create speech delays when kids are "plugged up" frequently during awake time, and (c)it can create weak lip and tongue muscles and poor articulation patterns in children who try to talk around it while it is still in their mouths.

Sunny, CIO isn't pleasant and enjoyable for anyone, but MOST (certainly not all) times babies have difficulty getting themselves to sleep and wake up and night unable to get back to sleep because they simply haven't learned how to self-soothe. Just we as parents help our children learn to walk, talk, feed themselves, etc. we must also teach them how to soothe themselves because like it or not we will not always be there. Just because I let my child cry for 3 nights so he could learn to sleep on his own does not make me any less a caring, loving mother than you. It just means we have different strategies for parenting. My oldest son hated "tummy time" and would scream when placed on his stomach as an infant. However, I knew that it was important for head control and muscle development, so I had him spend some tummy time playing with me on the floor every day. While I love my children dearly and would do ANYTHING for them, including readily giving my life for them, in my house the deck is stacked God first, husband second, children third, and self last. My dh and I need alone time and adult time and we both need sleep to handle our daily duties and be well rested enough to be good parents, all while teaching our children a lifelong skill.

As for the crying for 50 minutes thing. If you have a 2-hour drive and your child hates being in the car seat and cries the whole time, would you cancel the trip or take the child out? When a teenager (esp. DD) does into a 2 hour dramatic sobbed filled crying jag because she is being punished or you won't allow her to tattoo her forehead are you going to change your mind and give in just because it breaks your heart to hear her cry.

We must realize that this is a hot parenting topic and we will have to agree to disagree without attacks on each other's parenting style. I know many moms on this board are advocates for attachment parenting and it works great for their families. I personally do not like the concept of attachment parenting and many of the philosophies behind it, but if it works for you, then great.

Melissa, as far as letting your DD CIO, the trick is that you and DH both have to be on board with it. If you both aren't committed to the plan then it probably won't work. I would suggest you both read the Weissbluth book I mentioned earlier. It gives a lot of really specific examples of parents who let their kids CIO and how it worked for them. It sounds like she was on the right track and *almost* there. Good luck!!

By Pamt on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 09:01 pm:

Trina, you made some excellent points. CIO isn't for everyone. It worked great for both of my kids and I think it works well for most kids without special problems. However, there are some temperments (very strong-willed, etc) that it may not work for. Then you have to drop back and punt

By Kaye on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 09:06 pm:

Pam I didn't think about the speech issues. My oldest two kids were huge paci users, but only at bedtime and car time. Our neices weren't allowed to have them, ages 8 and 5 and they still can't sleep without them. And my youngest who didn't take a paci is mr oral still at age 5. At age 3 it got so bad we almost tried the paci again! As with all things parenting moderation is the key. And yep, this is one of those topics that we all feel very "hot" about.

By Sunny on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 09:27 pm:

Melissa, I do apologize. Have you ever said something and thought to yourself afterward, 'That was a stupid thing to say', but it was too late to take back? That's what happened here, and I should have gone back and edited it out before anyone read it. I didn't mean to offend you or condemn your parenting style - that is/was never my intention - I have no doubt from reading your posts that you love your daughter and are doing your best. I have been a parent for 15 years, more than some here and less than others, and I will readily admit that I'm still learning. Forgive me.

Pam, I seem to have offended you too, so I will apologize and agree to disagree on this subject. Too hot a topic.

By Boxzgrl on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 10:14 pm:

Sunny you didn't offend me (well, maybe a little ) but I just wanted to make sure everyone knew I was trying and not just being a horrible mother.
Trina- funny you mention this but right before I came on here DH and I sat down to have a talk. I was almost in tears because I dont know what to do and I can see her already becoming spoiled. When we try this "sleep all night" thing shes throws such a fuss and is sleepy all day long from loss of sleep and wants to be held. She wont even play with her toys for more than 10 minutes.

So, we decided that were going to go back to waking up to feed her because she is happier during the day and then i'm not in such a horrible, grumpy mood by time DH gets home from work. We will try again later when we can both compromise on not tending to her at night. DH got 4 hours of sleep last night from this and then worked a 12 hour day (military) so hes pretty tired too. I'd much prefer to wake up 2-4 times a night than to deal with a grumpy baby all day.
She almost makes me want to cry because she has just not been very happy.

So, thank you all for your advice. I did take into consideration both sides of the story.
(Sorry so long!!)

By Battykatty on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 10:24 pm:

I don't really like the idea of CIO for my dd, but at 6mo we tried it and it was very noticeable the improvement it had..45min, 30min, 20min, 10min and then by fifth night, she boohoos for less than 2 minutes and is out. It broke my heart to hear it and dh and I literally sat outside her door with our eyes closed clutching eachother hands hoping it to end. However, I got weak. She got sick and I brought her to bed with me and I couldn't stand the thought of 'retraining' again b/c of bending the rule on my part. Now, at 3 she sleeps in her room and we bring her to bed with us when we sleep and she's fine with that. DS however was different, he was very predictable, very routine oriented, and gave me 4 hours sleep straight at 2 1/2 months. I was so RELIEVED. But that didn't last long. At 5 months he started his 1 1/2 hour sleep/wake thing again. DH suggested CIO to see if it work since he is so routine/predictable. He FOUGHT it. The minutes INCREASED by each night instead of DECREASING. Confused..I attempted comforting him every 5 min, then 10min.. then 15 min.. Nothing worked. He still continue to cry until he was exhausted and he was not going to conform to the CIO method. So, we gave up on that and just adjusted and added certain small bits to his bedtime routine to help ease him. DH would take him after I gave him his last feeding and I would give him kisses and follow them just to his bedroom door so that it helps him transition that he's not sleeping on mommy. We added code words "time to go to sleep" "sleepy time" when we rock him and pat him near his crib. Then we would say 'Good night, sweet dreams" and leave. We also got a sleep relax musc and played that every night. THe combination took a little time but it worked. He sees the routine and there are enough 'clues' and slow transition of mommy-detach time that he is still comforted and sleepy. Every baby is different just as their temperament and learning style, but the key here is consistency once you find one that baby can adjust to.

By Battykatty on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 10:34 pm:

OH..one more thing Wendy, if the pacifier comforts her, maybe you can spread some out on her crib so that she can find them at night? I have read different books that suggests that, but I never tried it b/c ds HATED the pacifier.
Also..the relax cd I mentioned, when DS wakes up in middle of night, we check on him to see if he has a poopy or hungry..if not we put him back down with kisses and turn on the music again (it's very soft) and he goes right back to sleep. I don't find an issue with playing the cd since it creates white noise and also is soothing and good for brain activity.

By Pamt on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 11:09 pm:

Sunny, you didn't offend me and I hope I didn't you either. These darn computers should be able to convey tone of voice better

Let's all just have a deep sigh, hold hands around the campfire, and sing "Pass It On." ...and sweet dreams to everyone and their babies tonight

By Amy~moderator on Thursday, December 4, 2003 - 11:27 pm:

Awww, Pam, that was sweet.

By Vicki on Friday, December 5, 2003 - 01:10 pm:

Battykatty ~ My dd was a huge pacifier lover. I remember having about 10 of those crazy things in her bed so she could get to one quick. LOL It was the best thing when she was able to start finding it on her own at night. LOL Prior to that, if she did wake up, all we had to do was go in and stick one in her mouth and right back to sleep she would go. I will also say that she never walked around the house with it in her mouth. It was kept in the bed and in the car and that was it. Drives me nuts to hear kids talking with one of those in their mouths. LOL I guess I give people credit that can do the CIO, I know I never could have. I just can't take the crying. LOL Then again, I had a great sleeper. She started sleeping through the night at 7 weeks old!! She went to bed about 8:30. We would wake her up about 10:30pm or so and change her and give her a bottle and she would be out until about 7am. Someoe was watching over me with her and knew I did not function well on a few hours of sleep. LOL

By Tonya on Friday, December 5, 2003 - 01:47 pm:

Timmy loved his paci and no lie at one time he had 12-15 in his crib so he could find one at night but at 1 yr they were all taken away along with the bottle. I will say I cannot stand to see a 2-5 yr old child walking around trying to talk with one of those da** things in their mouths. I just want to take it from them and say look now everyone can understand you.

By Mommymindy on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 03:20 pm:

Hey, maybe your husband can just be the one to get up with her all night while she doesn't want to sleep!

Really, I often think my 1 year old isn't happy either, but they learn at a young age how to get what they want. Them looking miserable makes us crumble & feel terrible, so it works. They get picked up this way. My daughter looks so miserable sometimes, but I know she's happy in general, just not at bedtime! She wants to be up.
Oh, one more thing I tried that seems to be working now. I don't like to put her in our bed anymore, because she's so mobile, I'm afraid she'll fall off the bed. So when I come in late at night from work, she usually wakes up & wants to get in our bed. I will usually just hold her & cuddle for a few minutes & then when I put her back in bed, I take my shirt off & give it right to her. She likes to sleep with it & usually won't cry when I put her back in bed with my shirt. I guess it's the same as with the newborns who like their mother's scent.
May sound crazy or weird to some, but it works in my house, and believe me, when I get home at 2 or 3am, though I like to cuddle for a few minutes, I'm trying to sleep!

By Rjschneider on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 04:20 pm:

I can't say I really did the cio thing, when my son was little I he slept really well, but would ocassionly wake up, I always went it the room and just hugged him and laid him back down. There were times he wouldn't want me to leave and he would see how long I would sit with him, at those few times I would do the cio and he got it with in a couple nights. My daughter though also has a pacifier and she will lose it in the night and cry for it, we just get up and get it for her and she goes back to sleep instantly. My kids have always slept pretty well, they still get up occasionaly and we just get up and tuck them back into bed. I guess it never bother me, because they go back to sleep so quickly and it's never been a big deal to tuck them back in as long as they go back to bed fine. Good luck with your daughter.

By Amyk on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 04:42 pm:

Ok - forgive this long post... The following is from Dr. Sears - after reading this - I knew the CIO method wasn't for me: (just my opinion - but think the info below is worth reading)

If only my baby could talk instead of cry I would know what she wants," said Janet, a new mother of a fussy baby. "Your baby can talk," we advised. "The key is for you to learn how to listen. When you learn the special language of your baby's cry, you will be able to respond sensitively. Here are some listening tips that will help you discover what your baby is trying to say when he cries.

The cry is not just a sound; it's a signal – designed for the survival of the baby and development of the parents. By not responding to the cry, babies and parents lose. Here's why. In the early months of life, babies cannot verbalize their needs. To fill in the gap until the child is able to "speak our language," babies have a unique language called "crying." Baby senses a need, such as hunger for food or the need to be comforted when upset, and this need triggers a sound we call a cry. Baby does not ponder in his little mind, "It's 3:00 a.m. and I think I'll wake up mommy for a little snack." No! That faulty reasoning is placing an adult interpretation on a tiny infant. Also, babies do not have the mental acuity to figure out why a parent would respond to their cries at three in the afternoon, but not at three in the morning. The newborn who cries is saying: "I need something; something is not right here. Please make it right."

At the top of the list of unhelpful advice – one that every new parent is bound to hear – is "Let your baby cry-it-out." To see how unwise and unhelpful is this advice, let's analyze each word in this mother-baby connection- interfering phrase.

"Let your baby." Some third-party advisor who has no biological connection to your baby, no knowledge or investment in your baby, and isn't even there at 3:00 a.m. when your baby cries, has the nerve to pontificate to you how to respond to your baby's cries.

The cry is a marvelous design. Consider what might happen if the infant didn't cry. He's hungry, but doesn't awaken ("He sleeps through the night," brags the parent of a sleep-trained baby). He hurts, but doesn't let anyone know. The result of this lack of communication is known, ultimately, as "failure to thrive." "Thriving" means not only getting bigger, but growing to your full potential emotionally, physically, and intellectually.

"Cry…" Not only is the cry a wonderful design for babies; it is a useful divine design for parents, especially the mother. When a mother hears her baby cry, the blood flow to her breasts increases, accompanied by the biological urge to "pick up and nurse" her baby. ("Nurse" means comforting, not just breastfeeding.) As an added biological perk, the maternal hormones released when baby nurses relax the mother, so she gives a less tense and more nurturing response to her infant's needs. These biological changes – part of the design of the mother-baby communication network – explain why it's easy for someone else to advise you to let your baby cry, but difficult for you to do. That counterproductive advice is not biologically correct.

"It…" Consider what exactly is the "it" in "cry-it-out": an annoying habit? Unlikely, since babies don't enjoy crying. And, contrary to popular thought, crying is not "good for baby's lungs." That belief is not physiologically correct. The "it" is an emotional or physical need. Something is not right and the only way baby has of telling us this is to cry, pleading with us to make it right. Early on, consider baby's cry as signaling a need – communication rather than manipulation.

Parent tip: Babies cry to communicate – not manipulate

"Out" What actually goes "out" of a baby, parents, and the relationship when a baby is left to cry-it-out? Since the cry is a baby's language, a communication tool, a baby has two choices if no one listens. Either he can cry louder, harder, and produce a more disturbing signal or he can clam up and become a "good baby" (meaning "quiet"). If no one listens, he will become a very discouraged baby. He'll learn the one thing you don't want him to: that he can't communicate.

Baby loses trust in the signal value of his cry – and perhaps baby also loses trust in the responsiveness of his caregivers. Not only does something vital go "out" of baby, an important ingredient in the parent- child relationship goes "out" of parents: sensitivity. When you respond intuitively to your infant's needs, as you practice this cue- response listening skill hundreds of times in the early months, baby learns to cue better (the cries take on a less disturbing and more communicative quality as baby learns to "talk better"). On the flip side of the mother-infant communication, you learn to read your infant's cries and respond appropriately (meaning when to say "yes" and when to say "no," and how fast). In time you learn the ultimate in crying sensitivity: to read baby's body language and respond to her pre-cry signals so baby doesn't always have to cry to communicate her needs.

What happens if you "harden your heart," view the cry as a control rather than a communication tool and turn a deaf ear to baby's cries? When you go against your basic biology, you desensitize yourself to your baby's signals and your instinctive responses. Eventually, the cry doesn't bother you. You lose trust in your baby's signals, and you lose trust in your ability to understand baby's primitive language. A distance develops between you and your baby and you run the risk of becoming what pediatricians refer to as a doctor-tell-me-what-to-do. You listen to a book instead of your baby. So, not listening and responding sensitively to baby's cries is a lose-lose situation: Baby loses trust in caregivers and caregivers lose trust in their own sensitivity.

By Ginny~moderator on Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 10:28 pm:

Amyk, thanks. I knew I do not believe in the CIO method, though of course I was doing my listening to babies cry many years ago. What you posted above articulates what I was feeling. "Letting" a baby "cry it out" says to the baby that s/he cannot trust the most important people in the world to fix whatever is wrong. That s/he will be left to cry and be uncomfortable, unhappy, perhaps hungry, perhaps - who knows what - and no one will help, no one will comfort, no one will care.

That is not what I would want to say to a baby.

Multitudinous studies show that babies need, above all else, human contact. They need to be held, cuddled, comforted - as much as they need to be fed and kept clean, dry and warm. Babies from orphanages in many of the former Soviet Union satellite nations were kept fed, clean, warm and dry, but did not have cuddling, holding, and comforting. And studies of those children show that they are horribly deficient in their ability to form relationships, to love.

I do remember what it was like to have a baby crying for no reason. I remember going out and sitting on the front steps crying because my first son was crying inside and I couldn't get him to stop.

But I would not ever have wanted to "harden my heart", and would never think this an appropriate response to a baby crying.

By Joan on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 12:13 pm:

I have three children. With my first I would get up every time he cried at night. On many nights he would wake up the minute I would lay him down or the second my hand would leave his back. I would get so inpatient with him! I would find myself at times yelling "would you just go to sleep!" there are times I probebly was'nt the best mom. I had no right to yell at a baby for waking up in the middle of the night. I was a first time mom and I was not handling the lack of sleep very well.
With my second son I would also get frustrated when he woke up but I found myself handling it much better. Sure, I would get upset but I would'nt yell or raise my voice at him because it was not his fault and I realized that the more quite I was the faster he would go back to sleep.
With my third baby, who is now 4 months old it does'nt even really phase me anymore. LOL I get her when she cries at night and I don't even say a word, I just feed her and she goes back to sleep. I've actually gotten up in the middle of the night and went to her room where she is crying for me and actually giggled to myself that I asked for this when I wanted another baby. I have so much patience now. I don't know if it is my age, I was 24 when I had my first and I'm 30 now, or if it's my experience with already going through it twice before. Could be a combination of both. I've always gotten up with all my children in the night. I've never let them cry it out. There are nights with my first baby that I thought I would just die of lack of sleep, but I did'nt They grow up so fast, I wish I would have had more patience with my oldest.
We all make mistakes, we all have to learn to do what is right for us. Listen to your heart

Mara

By Tripletrouble on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 03:47 pm:

I know that if you stick to the CIO method, it will work. You just have to realize that your baby is safe and that she has to learn to comfort herself. I did my triplets the same way and now that they are 7 months, I have no problems with them sleeping at night. They will find a way to comfort themselves, whether it is finding a more comfortable position to sleep or putting their own pacifiers back in their mouths. Now they don't even cry, they might whine a little, but within 5 minutes they are sound asleep. You just have to realize that she can comfort herself, she just has to learn how to. Trust me, she'll be a pro in no time.

By Mommyathome on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 07:30 pm:

We did the CIO method with all three of my DK's. And, for the record, it does not make me a bad mother, nor a heartless person. I don't agree completely with the article posted above. Just because a baby is crying, does not mean that there is a *problem*. IMO babies do learn to manipulate with crying. I figured if my children were happy, healthy had full tummies and no other problems going on, and they cried every night when it was bedtime, that they were crying because they didn't want to go to bed. Plain and simple. I was not going to let them manipulate me into letting them stay up, so I let them CIO. It worked for us. Of course if they were sick, or it had been a bad day for them, then things were different. Yes, I did comfort them. Yes, I did check on them every 15 minutes.

A mom can learn the cries of her baby. After months have passed, it's easier to tell if it's a hungry cry, a hurt cry, a sad cry and so on. There is also a *I don't wanna go to bed* cry.

We did a version of the CIO method recommended by our doctor, and it worked great for us. We started between 6 and 8 months of age. It took less than a week, and we've all slept all night ever since!

Of course, this post is JMO, as are everyone elses posts. No one way is the *right* way. Everyone has their own opinions and their own methods. Whatever works!

By Kittycat_26 on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 08:20 am:

I think I've been all over the board on this one. There are time when I let Timmy CIO. There are times when I go and let him up with me for 30 minutes or so. There are times when it's not even an issue. There are times when he sleeps with us for a while.

Guess I'm just non-commital. It depends on his day. If he's overly tired nothing works except letting him CIO. He's got to make peace with himself and settle down. No amount of holding or coddling helps. He's miserable until he can get some sleep.

If he's sick, then I hold him and rock him and put him to sleep.

It just all depends.

By Kaye on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 11:24 am:

just one more thought on this...(i think dr sears is great btw). my youngest child has some real autistic tendancies. I had a doc once tell me that if I had not been an "attachemnt" parent it is very likely my child would be very severe. There is no medical way to test this, but I always found it interesting that CIO seems to have soared in popularity and the increase of Asperegers ( a high functioning autism) has soared right along with it. I wonder if there is a connection. Not by any means trying to say that CIO would cause this. But I wonder if you have a child with those tendancies (which you don't know until they are at least a 18 months)if you can "fix" a lot of issues by really cuddling your child. One of the things that my child picks up on(he is 5) is how people respond to him. If he feels "let down" by a teacher, he pretty much quites looking at, quits talking to and quits responding to her. Not in a bad way, like a really good quiet shy kid. The problem is we can't figure out what qualifies someone to be on his bad list. What we do know is in your first meeting with him if you say anything negative, i mean anything, that is it. So to me I think of this child and think, hmmm if I had not responded to him positively to every cry as an infant, would I be on that list. Anyway, as I said just a thought, something I spend a lot of time wondering about, thinking about.

By Amyk on Thursday, December 11, 2003 - 06:12 pm:

Thanks everyone - I've really enjoyed this discussion -

By Misty on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 08:54 pm:

Sigh, Max had a checkup today and we discussed our sleeping habits. Well, I didnt go into detail LOL. I mean, who wants to admit that thier husband sleeps on a mattress next to the bed while Im in bed with the baby?

Sigh. So, the pediatrician said its time to CIO, btw Max is a year now. So, not only am I trying to prepare to start letting him CIO, but I am figuring out how to wean him.

If he is asleep and I carry him to the crib, 9 times out of 10 he will wake up before I even get to the crib. If I do get him in the crib, majority of the time he wakes and wont go back to sleep. Its very seldom that I can walk away and know that for a couple hours he will sleep in there.

I know its good for him to have his own space, and I want to be able to roll over and know my husband is next to me, but, how do I get over the guilt. Heck, its not even bedtime and Im feeling the guilt.

Our older son slept in our bed for a while, cant remember how long. Dh was fine with that, for some reason he isnt comfortable with Max sleeping in the bed. So, I know that its best for my family to get him to stay in his crib, its just going to break my heart to do it. I suppose I can sit outside while he cries, and let Dh stay in the house.

By Wendyo on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 11:00 pm:

This has been a very interesting discussion. For the past two weeks dh and I have been trying to decide what method would be best for us. Lately we have felt like we've been taking steps backwards with sleeping because she is waking up more often and ending up in bed with us in the morning earlier and earlier and nursing. This was how it was when she was a newborn and we saw progress from then, but now it's headed back that direction. So, tonight we let her cry herself to sleep and it lasted about 20 min. which is not as long as I was afraid it would be. My thought now is what do we do if she wakes up in a couple of hours crying? Do we let her cry it out again for sake of consistency? Should we visually check on her, comfort her without picking her up and then let her cry? Because if we pick her up and rock her, is that sending her mixed signals?

Kaye, I'm interested in your thoughts on autism. Now that I've just stated that we are letting our dd CIO, hope it doesn't seem too tacky of me to ask you about this! I'm so grateful for all the input. What are autistic tendencies? Would obsessive/compulsive behavior lead you to wonder about autism? I noticed that you said that you have a son with this; is this more common in males? I've heard that some people think that autism is more likely to occur in children whose parents both are of higher intelligence. Are there other children in your community or family with this? Seems like there are a lot of unknowns with autism and I imagine you do spend a lot of time thinking about a lot of things.

By Trina~moderator on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 08:39 am:

Misty, here is the non CIO approach I took with DD. (CIO did not work with her.) It also helped with weaning her from breastfeeding. At about your DS's age I started including a special blanket in on our nursing sessions. She still needed to nurse to go to sleep at that point and was waking a few times at night as well. While she nursed I caressed her cheeks and arms with the blanket. I continued to do this and put her in her crib awake with the blanket. Eventually, over 3-4 mos. time, I was able to just tuck her in with the blanket and leave. No nursing, no crying. She basically transferred her comfort item from my chest to the blanket. She weaned from BF this way and began sleeping through the night at 16 mos.. Woo hoo! It was so gradual that I hardly even noticed it. I remember realizing, "Wow, she hasn't nursed for 3 days!" That was it. Oh, and during the day I used the "Don't offer, don't refuse" method of weaning. I offered snacks and a sippy cup throughout the day and tried to keep her busy with activities. I only let her nurse if she insisted upon it. Thus not offering yet not refusing. She went longer and longer without wanting to nurse. Just thought I'd share my experiences.

By Amyk on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 09:23 am:

You may want to find a copy of "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley and get some ideas if CIO doesn't seem right for you. Don't buy in to everything your pediatrician reccommends. :-)

By Mommymindy on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 11:19 am:

I liked the article posted, but I'm not sure I believe all of it. Yes, when little babies cry in the middle of the night (6 months or younger), they probably need attention. Usually it's a bottle or breastmilk. Sometimes they just want to be held & there's nothing wrong with that, but when older babies wake up in the middle of the night, I think they should know how to comfort themselves back to sleep. If a parent doesn't mind getting up 5 or 6 times a night every single night, then it's fine. If (like most of us) the parent needs some sleep, then the baby, as long as everything else is OK, clean diaper, not hungry, etc... then I think it's OK to let them cry it out. Cry it out doesn't refer to some bad habit, as the article says. It means to cry out their frusturation, their sleepy grouchiness, whatever! I for one, know that when my 1 year old wakes up, I can give her a bottle & let her go back to sleep. I don't like to stay up all night. I did enough of it with all 3 of them the first 6 months or so of their lives! LOL
JMHO

By Lisa12121 on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 11:31 am:

I could use some advice relating to crying it out and a younger infant. My DD is 11 weeks old and wakes up the second her bottom hits any bed, car seat, cradle seat or other surface. She even sleeps for naps in my arms in fits and starts. At night, I've resorted to sleeping with her in my arms which she likes and sleeps almost all night without waking most nights, however, if I try to put her in her crib or bassinette, she awakens almost instantly. If I lay her down sleepy but awake, she begins howling immediately. If I lay her down fully asleep, she wakes up within 5 minutes and begins screaming. I've been letting her CIO for naps with a max. time limit of 1 hours before I pick her up. Going in to comfort her only makes her cry more. She will usually fall asleep for her nap after crying for 1/2 hour and sleep for 1 to 4 hours. I hate letting her cry at so young an age, but she needs to sleep. I dread what will happen when we try to move her from my bed to her bed at night as well. Any suggestions will be appreciated. PS: we use swaddling and white noise at naps to help (doesn't help much).

By Trina~moderator on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 12:52 pm:

Lisa, both my kids were like that as infants. I couldn't let a baby CIO at that young age. Have you tried putting a heating pad or warmed towel in the crib/bassinette/car seat for a little while before putting her in? It could be a temperature issue. Being held is warm and cozy but being put down in a cold crib/car seat isn't. Good luck!

By Jodie on Sunday, January 25, 2004 - 08:30 pm:

Ds was very high strung right from the start. Waking up every 3 hours till 18 months. We co slept and nursed right from the start until ds self weaned at 14 months.It was very frustrating not getting continuous sleep and at 7-8 months ds's pediatrician suggested reading the Ferber and the Weissbluth books.
I personally found the Ferber method barbaric and the Weissbluth book mentions "cold turkey " cry it out and that sounded positively medieval.I just couldn't believe what I was reading.Then a girlfriend suggested a couple "attachment parenting" and "Continuum concept " and "eastern philosophy "books and it really made me sit up and take notice .I found I had been practicing AP all along. Dr. Sear's books are great and so so insightful .In the other books i also read there might be no physical or mental or developmental signs of neglect when a child is left alone to cry it out BUT what about the spiritual wounds?The baby is a human being with emotions that are still immature and need deep nurturing. The child's spirit is broken and finally the child gives up and goes to sleep.CIO seems like the process of breaking in a horse and I was horrified that it's being used on human infants .Spiritual scarring is invisible and at the subconscious level and very hard to detect but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Research into the spiritual aspect of humanity and human behaviour is still at a fledgling stage in the western world. I read all this and cried for ever having even considered CIO .DH read too and felt the same . We both come from deeply spiritual families and in our sleepless haze had forgotten a few of our basic values .We just kept on loving and brought forth all our resourses of patience and comfort and prayed everyday for additional strength and patience. After only 18 months and NO crying DS finally figured it out and slept great , is very independent if he wakes up. Goes to the kitchen, gets milk or water and goes back to sleep. We still co sleep. DS never used any pacifiers and no comfort objects either.

I know life is uncertain but one of the books mentioned an interesting thought - On an average a woman will live to the age of 85 years . 90% or more of this lifespan is used for personal gain and growth and sleep too . A mere 2-3 years of deep nurturing for a child one has willingly brought into this world doesn't seem like a big sacrifice. 50-60 years for sex and other pleasures and personal pursuits ( and sleeping )are really a lot of years !They do grow up so fast and anyway, this was what I read over the course of my misadventures and sleepless nights and this was what I got to believe in and it worked for my family.
I also believe every family situation is unique and every family has to find a way that works for their particular situation. There really can't be a right or a wrong choice. It's just a choice you believe in and a one that works for you personally. My choices worked for me and alls well that ends well.

By Boxzgrl on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:35 am:

I would try the heating pad thing. I probably wouldnt let her CIO at 11 weeks old, shes still pretty young. Most books dont recommend CIO til around 6 months old. How does she sleep in the car? Have you tried laying next to her on the bed and then slowly maneuvering your way out? I had to do that with DD for a bit. I would just get a bunch of pillows and put then all around her on the bed so she wouldnt fall or anything. Good Luck, this is still tough. My DD is 8 months old now and still wakes up 2 times a night. I tried CIO but I dont think its for her, every baby is different.

By Lisa12121 on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 02:31 pm:

I appreciate all the interesting info. From reading your responses and previous ones from the site, most feel she is too young for CIO. I haven't tried the heating pad but since she is being placed in a bassinette (or padded cradle seat), being wrapped in a blanket and then covered with a blanket, the warmth of where I am laying her is probably not much of an issue (since no skin ever touches the sheets). However, as with all things, it is certainly worth a go. My DD is my third child so I've tried most things under the sun with the first two, but never did one refuse to sleep when laid down (sometimes it took coaxing, but usually they'd sleep). My reasons for even doing the CIO is because my older children suffer because their sister is miserable, won't sleep and mommy has no time for them since she is always carrying a crying, crabby baby. Baby's naptime is special time with the other kids which is why I like to have her upstairs in a bed. If I lay with her while she sleeps and then slide out, I might get away for a bit while she sleeps in the bed, that's one I'll have to try (a good one when nursing her at naptime). Note: there was no CIO with my oldest as I only had to worry about him. My second went through CIO (cold turkey) with almost instant results at about month 4 or 5. Thanks for all the helpful tips. I'll let you know if anything works.

By Lisa12121 on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 02:33 pm:

Oh, by the way - DD HATES the car. Cries the entire time she's in a moving or stopped vehicle and begins crying when I put her in the car seat. Thus, we don't drive on long car trips with this one.

By Juli4 on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 02:50 pm:

There was a lot of pressure from my inlaws to let my daughter cry it out. They thought she was spoiled and yet we were the worst parents and of course they could do much better even though they did not with their kids. Anyways. Everyone else can raise your kids better than you just ask them. Anyways it drove me crazy to let her just scream and she would. My nerves would be all in a knot and it was miserable. Now I am sure that being my first I responded alot quicker and more ofter than with my second. But she is the most loving girl and well adjusted and she is 2.5 and sleeps in a sleeping bag by our bed. This did not start utnill about 2 or 3 months ago and she is happy there and we don't mind and she goes to sleep secure adn content. My second daughter started sleeping throught eh night at about 4 or 5 months and was breastfeeding and weaned at 11 months. I just noticed she was going longer and longer without nursing becuase she was so busy with other things and so after she went about two or three days I didn't offer and when she acted like she wanted to I just cuddled her or distracted her. She sleeps through the night but occassionally wakes up and starts to fuss and I give her a minute or so to see if she works it out herself and if she does then I go back to sleep adn if she doesn't I get up and fix whatever is making her unhappy. SOmetimes her diaper or she wants to be held (my husband started holding her while I was at work in the evenings until she fell asleep so sometimes she wants cuddled then put to bed.) then she is shppy to go back to her crib. I just kinda follwed their lead but didn't jump every time she cried but gave her a little bit to work it out. I could tell by her cry if something was really wrong or if she was just fussing and other times I just couldn't get there right away so she had to cry a few minutes wich didn't kill her and she is a happy secure baby. So don't let everyone tell you what is right for your kids. You are the mom and if they think you have funny ideas then so be it. You are allowed to have funny ideas. It is your job.

By Luvn29 on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 08:46 pm:

Lisa

Just typed a great long post and lost it. So this one will be brief and to the point! Lucky you! hehe!

My ds went through a spell when he was very young that he hated the car. He cried the entire time he was in it. Nothing ever settled him down. He just finally grew out of that stage.

Both of my children were very difficult, went through awful, horrible night terrors with my dd since she was an infant, she's now seven, and my ds was just plain difficult when it came to sleeping!

Try a swing! Yes, I know baby is very young, but my son loved his swing from a few weeks old till he was so big his legs had to be propped up with blankets and he had to be hand pushed. Just use a reclining swing with one of those rolled head propper up thingies like you use in carseats for small newborns. Or use a cradle swing. My son would NOT take naps unless he was in the swing, and he sat in his swing to nap. This was the only place he was satisfied for naps.

We also went through a spell where he had to have a vaccuum running for up to 30 minutes before he would fall asleep (in his swing). Hey, it worked! We weren't so comfortable, but he was!

Then he decided he liked Macy Grey's "Try to Walk Away" song, must've been her voice, and he had to have that CD playing that song over and over and over, quite loudly.

But, he outgrew all of these things.

As you can see, I never believed in letting him cio. I just knew there had to be something that would satisfy him, especially at that young of an age.

The key is working to find that certain something that makes you say Ah-ha! and your baby say zzzzzzzz! Just don't get disheartened.

Have you tried those vibrating chairs? Again with one of those rolled up head propper thingies? My son loved that. It seemed like he just needed motion. He's four and still likes to be rocked to sleep. And I wouldn't trade that for the world!

Good luck and I'm positive you'll work this out. All of you trying to come to a decision about cio. Just remember, this time that they are little and want you only lasts a little while, and there are no guarantees that you will ever get that chance again.

By Lisa12121 on Sunday, February 1, 2004 - 02:47 pm:

Thank you so much for the suggestions. Seems like time and patience are really the only things often needed. DD is almost 3 months now and at times will stay asleep for naps when laid down in the bassinette. The biggest improvement is with bedtime sleep. For the past 3 out of 4 nights, I was able to lay her down asleep and she stayed down for 5, 5.5 and 6 hours respectively. The one night she cried when put down, I curled up with her and we both went to sleep. DD usually takes short cat-naps in her swing, but she doesn't like it much. My DS's would both zonk out in the swing for hours. I started swaddling for naps and bedtime with a pre-fab swaddle blanket w/velcro tabs while using one of those heartbeat bears. It seems to have helped. Plus, the nap/sleep routine seems to be sinking in as well: swaddle, white noise, rocking and eating are the cues she is beginning to recognize as her sleep cues. I'll keep everyone posted.

By Tink on Sunday, April 4, 2004 - 01:39 pm:

I simply have to sound off about the theory that Asperger's (or any form of autism) and CIO can in any form be intertwined. This idea is reminiscent of the '60's theory of "refrigerator moms" and, as the mother of a child of autism, I completely rebel against the idea that I caused my son's disability. I carried my son with me and attended to his every need for most of his first year. He did not sleep well and we had to sit with him bouncing him in a bouncy-seat or patting him on the backside for hours each night. I carried him with me in a baby sling for at least 10 hours per day. He slept, ate and interacted with us, all while being carried at my hip. My son is very high-functioning (he would have been labeled with Asperger's if he'd had more language) and affectionate, but still can be withdrawn and in his own world, occasionally. I simply don't believe that CIO for a few evenings could have made the difference between how he is and how much worse he could have been. The children that form detachment disorders caused by their environments are the victims of longterm abuse and neglect, not a few nights of crying by otherwise attentive and loving parents.

By Kaye on Sunday, April 4, 2004 - 06:58 pm:

Tink, sorry to hear about your son. My point was CIO does not cause anything. But I firmly believe that if you had taken your child and just let him CIO often, or didn't hold him like you did that he might not be as high functioning as he is. It is doccumented that long term abuse and neglect can cause serious issues. CIO is not that, but I think it can turn to that all too quickly. I believe there are children who are prime candiates for letting them cry a bit and other who are not. Only mothers know their child that well. But if you have to convince yourself that it is okay to do, then you are making the wrong decision! I am a strong believer in follow those instincts, spoil your baby, they grow up way to fast and hold that security with them their whole life.