We have 3 children of our own, ages 4, almost 3 & almost 1. My husband babysits for our best friend's 4 children while she works at night. They are 10, 8, 6, and 3. The situation is fine, he came from a rather large family, so he keeps control of everything. The problem is her 6 year old. We know (and so does her mother and everyone else) that she as ADHD. The list of signs say that the child must exhibit 4 or more of the signs for 6 months or more or whatever, she exhibits all the signs. There is no question of a diagnosis. The problem is that her mother won't take her to the Dr. to get checked out about it and treated. I can understand that she is scared to put her on meds., but it is affecting all of us. Every time I mention the little girl's behavior, she just asks if I want her to find a different babysitter for the girl. (this is out of the question, she doesn't have anyone else to watch her, and with her behavior I would be scared for anyone else to watch her, they would probably hurt her). NO, I want you to do something about her! I feel like saying. Talking to the mom is out of the question too. She KNOWS. I have gone so far as to go through the provider list for her insurance & call psychologists for her in the area. The mom is like my sister, really. Like a hard headed sister! She knows her daughter has a problem, but thinks that she can control it. The daughter is a sweet heart, but she stays in trouble.. She stays in time out, she gets spanked all the time at home, always in trouble!!! When she is being good, she is so sweet though. It isn't a parenting problem, because all the other kids are fine. It is a behavioral problem that I know she can't help. OK, that all being said: How can I deal with her? I need direct advice, day-to-day advice. We make it clear to her what we expect of her when she's here, but she's really wild! It's like she forgets & we have to constantly remind her. Then she pouts & looks all sad & we feel awful, but we have no choice but to discipline her! My children know that they are not to act like that, but I hate that I even have to address it with my kids, you know? I mean daily, besides putting her in time out all the time (which is horrible for her, she stands in the chair, squirms, can't sit still), what else will make her behave? What will make her shut up??? I hate to say it that way, and I never say shut up to any of the kids, but that's how I FEEL. I feel like saying "JUST SHUT THE **** UP!!!" because she never stops. Her mom does tell her shut up. Anyone go through anything like this? I mean there have to be teachers or daycare providers or other babysitters who have to go through the same thing with parents who are in denial about their kids. At least if she was in denial I could deal with the fact that she will realize some day. But she actually knows and will not do anything about it! Sorry this was so long, if anyone has any advice for me, I would appreciate it. I have read a lot of web pages about ADHD and stories, etc. they are mostly directed toward parents to tell them the signs or teachers who deal with them after they are on medication. None toward the people who have to deal with the children who are not getting help for it!!

By Tami on Friday, October 3, 2003 - 03:23 pm:

Mindy, First let me say welcome to momsview!! Glad you found us.

I am a mom of an ADHD DD, age 8. She has been "diagnosed" for 2 1/2 years. But,...she was "wild" for as long as I can remember. I so know what you are going through with this one!

Just a few ?? for you... You said the mom knows, but won't do anything about it. Is she afraid to of the meds? Afraid of "admitting" that her daughter has a problem? Maybe she has never REALLY been informed of the whole process.

My reasoning behind these ?? is that before I spoke to the DR, I was hesitant to put mine on meds. "I don't want my child on a controlled substance"...... NOT that I didn't want help.

The DR explained it to me like this... If you have diabetes--you must control it with insulin to help maintain the proper amount in your body; if you have a thyroid problem--you must take the proper medication to maintain the proper amount for your body.....It's the same thing. In ADHD children (and adults), their brain does not produce enough of the chemical to help the natural filters that help us to concentrate. The medications just help the brain increase production of those chemicals.... I know that really helped me.

The sad thing is, when my DD has not taken her medicine--she will come and ask me for it because she knows that she feels more in control of herself and her behavior when she has it. They really physically cannot stop.... even when they want so desperately to behave. She used to tell me (before the meds), "I'm trying so hard to behave...my body just won't stop."

Hope this helps, maybe if you can explain it to the mom in the way my DR did she could see that it would greatly help her daughter AND her!!

Best of luck, and keep us posted!


BTW, I forgot to add that I also have a son age 6. I am a WAHM and love being able to spend time with my family!

By Feona on Friday, October 3, 2003 - 04:16 pm:

My 3 and a half has focus problems.

I think karate is good for adhd and add. check google.com for karate and add adhd.

I would try occupational therapy for add. It is good for add and adhd.

Check google.com for occupational therapy ahdh

weigthed vests

modulated music (occupational therapist recommend this. I can't get my son to listen to it.)


I might be crazy but I think 6 years old is too young for drugs.

By Kaye on Friday, October 3, 2003 - 04:45 pm:

What i do know about medicating ADHD children is that although 6 is young to give meds, it is also an optimal learning time. If you can treat their illness and train their brain now, the success rate is higher to stay off the meds later. when you start an older child on meds they notice, sometimes don't like it, feel inhibited etc. So this is one of those cases that younger is better in my opinion.

By Feona on Friday, October 3, 2003 - 06:00 pm:

I also see something called behavior modification therapy for adhd and add.

http://add.miningco.com/cs/behavioraltherapy/


I also saw information on drspock.com on treatment for adhd.

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,4503,00.html

This is how to do a time out. (someone had to train us to do it that is why I am listing it.)

http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,5871,00.html


Different experts favor different timeout techniques. Once you understand the principles, you can tailor the technique to fit your own style and needs.

Principle: Stay calm. Timeout means time away from your attention. Any attention, even negative attention, is a form of reward. So, the first principle of timeout (and all effective discipline) is to stay calm. If you lose your cool, you will be rewarding your child with very intense attention. Without meaning to, you will be increasing the likelihood that your child will repeat whatever negative behavior upset you, rather than decreasing it.


Principle: Timeout is most effective when there is plenty of "time in"--that is, plenty of happy, enjoyable time together. Making positive time happen can take real effort when a child has developed a pattern of negative behavior. But the effort is very important. Without "time in," timeout becomes merely a version of business as usual. It loses its power.


Principle: Minimize attention during timeout. Timeout is time without attention. One way to minimize attention from you is to use a kitchen timer that ticks and has a loud bell. Set it up where your child can see it, and let your child know that she has to sit in timeout until the bell rings. If she gets up ahead of time, the timer gets reset. The value of using a timer is that it takes you out of the equation. Pleading to you doesn't do any good, because the timer is in charge. For the same reason, avoid talking to your child during timeout or even looking at her very much. If possible, go about your business as if she weren't there. If she makes enough of a racket or gets up out of timeout so that you can't ignore her, make a point of resetting the timeout clock and telling her that the timeout starts once she is quiet.


Principle: Make timeouts short (one minute per year of age). The whole point of timeout is to teach your child that a particular behavior is unacceptable. A short timeout--about a minute per year of age is a good rule of thumb--works as well as a long one. If the timeout is too long, the child forgets what it's about and it ceases to teach her anything. The only thing that happens is that she feels angry and resentful. On the other hand, the more often a timeout occurs, and the more consistently it follows an unacceptable behavior, the more the child learns from the timeout. So, by keeping timeouts short, you are able to fit more of them in, which teaches even more.

Let me give you an example of this. Your three-year-old is running through the house, screaming at the top of her lungs. You tell her to stop, but she is just too full of energy to listen to you. Sending her outside to run and scream isn't an option, for whatever reason, so you decide your daughter needs a three-minute timeout. A couple of minutes after it's over, she's back to screaming. So you give her another timeout. Five minutes later, she's screaming again. So she gets her third timeout.

The result of all this in and out of time-out is that you've given your daughter three opportunities to learn that screaming inside is not acceptable. If you'd given her a 15-minute timeout in the first place, she would have had only one opportunity to learn that particular lesson and after a few minutes, she might not even have remembered about the behavior that got her there in the first place.

It's important that when the timeout is over, it's over. Instead of reminding your child again and again about the negative things she did, focus instead on the positive, pleasant things ahead. Not "I'm glad you've finally stopped throwing things" but "How about a story?" or "What do you want to play with now?"


Principle: Don't threaten, act. Timeouts (and any punishments or rewards) are most effective when they follow immediately after the unacceptable behavior. They also need to be predictable--that is, your child should know that any time she acts in certain unacceptable ways (refusing to do what you tell her to, for example), she is sure to be put in timeout. If it sometimes happens that she doesn't get timeout--for example, if she is able to plead or argue her way out of it--then timeout becomes much less powerful.

What this means is, if you give one warning ("Stop right now or you're going to have a timeout") and your child doesn't stop, you have to give the timeout right away. If you threaten to give a timeout, then threaten again, and then again, you are teaching your child to ignore your threats, because you yourself are not taking them seriously and following through. So remember: If you warn your child that she is headed for a timeout, be prepared to give one.
Timeouts are powerful, and they are simple. Once you understand the four principles talked about in this article (stay calm, minimize attention, make it short, take action), you can use this approach effectively. If your child is especially strong-willed, you may need to see "When Timeout Doesn't Work" or "Tips for Timeout".

By Marcia on Friday, October 3, 2003 - 11:16 pm:

Feona, try playing the music while he's sleeping. I have it playing all night, in all of the kids' bedrooms.

By John on Saturday, October 4, 2003 - 02:56 am:

The strong psychotropic drugs used to treat ADHD are not approved by the FDA for use on toddlers and preschoolers because of concerns over possible side effects on the developing brain.
However, doctors can prescribe them anyway...

http://www.familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,23-12687-0-1,00.html

In any case, I don't believe that drugs should be the first treatment choice for such an issue in such a young child, when we just don't know the long term effects of such treatment.

Studies show that Ritalin (one of the group of amphetamine based drugs) appears to have long term effects on brain function that are not completely understood.

Many doctors (including this Harvard doctor) believe drugs like Ritalin are being overprescribed and given for the wrong reasons:

http://www.familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,23-10318,00.html

By Lauram on Saturday, October 4, 2003 - 08:45 am:

I have a 6 year old who has ADHD (and also Tourette's and sensory integration) who takes drugs. It has been the best thing I have ever done as a parent. It was NOT easy at all. Even though I too was very aware that there were serious issues- I was terrified of medicine. I had a migraine for the three days before I went ot eh dr because I knew we were going to walk out of there with a perscription. My son can not take ritalin- because of his tourette's. INstead he takes Strattera. We have been through lots of issues with the side effects- vomiting, fatigue, stomach aches- but non e of them have outwieghed the benefits. And- it IS APPROVED for children age 6 and up. Before meds, my son was depressed, angry and agressive. He LOVES his meds (even though they hurt his tummy) because they help him with his "brakes." They don't solve all his issues and we try to keep him as low medicated as possible , but we did have to increase his dosage a few weeks ago because his behavior got out of hand. We tried EVERYTHING before this- I mean everything. I told someone when I put him on it I felt like I had failed as a mother- if I could just "run him" more maybe I wouldn't have to do this. Well, I feel differently now. He's a different child. So happy- level-headed and peaceful. Without the meds he is unhappy, aggressive and angry. What worked to get me down the "medicine path" was an intervention really. Three separate people sat down with me within a week of one another (his pediatrician, his OT and his social worker) and told me they really felt he needed meds. That was very effective getting me to take action. Hope that helps.....

By Lauram on Saturday, October 4, 2003 - 09:28 am:

I thought of one more thing. When my ds was 4 it was suggested to us to try caffeine- because it has the opposite effect on kids with ADHD (calms them). It didn't work for us- for the same reason ritalin doesn't- because while it addressed ADHD symptoms it made his tics worse. Maybe she'd be more open to this initially before trying the "hard core" drugs.

By Bobbie on Saturday, October 4, 2003 - 10:11 am:

My friends son is ADHD. And he has been medicated for the last two years. And he too will come and ask her for his medication. He actually can focus and he can't off the medication. Anyway, My friend was so dead set against it.. Not her son. Then I asked her the same question... If the child had diabetes or epilepsy would she not do everything in her power to control the symptoms??? Mental illness is very real in some children and other children are medicated because it is easier to cope with them. I would say since her other children do not exhibit behavior problems than this is clearly not a case of bad parenting but a child in real need of some help. Her behaviors are going to effect her emotional and mental growth. And in the long run will effect everything in her life including the people. Your friend needs to do what is best for her child because pretending it will go away will not help. I also want to add... Bi Polar is often misdiagnosed as ADHD. In children Bi Polar and ADHD parallel each other (exhibit very similar symptoms) But the ADHD medication can cause further emotional issues for the Bi Polar child. When and if you can get her to seek help she needs to question everything she is told. And to get as much information as she can about both conditions.

By Trina~moderator on Saturday, October 4, 2003 - 10:38 am:

FIRST, this child needs to be fully evaluated and formally diagnosed before meds are even considered. Yes, it *could* be ADHD but it *could* be other things as well. Steps should be taken to encourage the parents to seek help in determining what's going on with their DD. JMHO

By Mommmie on Saturday, October 4, 2003 - 06:30 pm:

Give her a Mountain Dew when she comes over and see if that doesn't calm her down for alittle while.

It may be that she'll have to bomb out at school before mom wants to emerge from denial.

Thank God there are medications to help these kids function in life.

By Mommymindy on Monday, October 6, 2003 - 11:05 pm:

Thank you all for your ideas! I like the Mountain Dew one! It's not really my choice to meak: to medicate or not to medicate. I am pretty positive that she has ADHD. Doesn't really matter if mommy won't do anything. I really need to know (besides talking-I am blue in the face already)how to get her to behave when she's here & making me want to climb the walls, and how to get her mom's attention to realize that she needs help! She really wants to be good, I know she does, she just can't!!!