What do I do about my ds?
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive July-December 2003:
What do I do about my ds?
I am at the end of my rope with my ds. He is almost 3 1/2 and he has been so horrible lately that I don't know what to do with him. He does not do what I tell him until it gets to the point that he is going to be punished. What's worse is that for the past two weeks it's escalated to the point that I typically have to punish him before he will even make a move to do what he's told. He has begun to go to the bathroom in his pants most of the time again. He hits, bites, pinches, and kicks his sister. He is mean to the cats and keeps at them until they scratch and bite him (he made a fist and punched our five week old kitten yesterday). He screams and yells at the top of his lungs constantly and won't quit no matter what we do. Then a little while ago when I told him he couldn't have gum he screams "Stupid Mommy" at me. What in the world is going on with him??? There have been no major changes here and I just don't understand what is causing him to act this way. I expect some pushing of the envelope and tries for independence, but he is way over the top right now. Even my parents are shocked by his behavior. I am consistant in my discipline and rules. I don't like to spank and I only spank for really big offenses, but he's being so very naughty that he is averaging about three a day. I have tried rewarding him for good behavior, but he would rather be naughty than get a piece of candy or get to watch a video or play of the computer. Any ideas what may be causing this or how I can restore the peace? TIA
((((hugs))))) No advice here, but I hope this passes soon for you. My 18 month old DS is being a challenge lately too.
Maybe he is allergic to something, a perfume or cleaning agent? It would be worth asking a dr if this is not his normal behavior. It does sound a bit over the edge for common 3yr indepence stage.
And for reward, offer a hug. I would tell me daughter "when I get to THREE, you can have a hug or a spanking" Only twice did she not stop the bad behavior on the count of three. Once she figured it out, she always stopped immediately and got her hug. For me, the most difficult time was when I was busy with other things and she was doing wrong. I figured if I had the energy/time to go over and punish her, I had the same energy to get up and hug her.
Good luck.
Check out www.conductdisorders.com and go to the Forum where they have a bulletin board called Primary Zone. It is for parents of challenging kids who are age 5 and under. Lots of good advice there from parents in the trenches.
Many will suggest the book 123Magic. It helped me.
Don't blame yourself. Some kids are more difficult than others. They are just hard-wired that way.
With such a major personality change, I would ask the pediatrician to recommend a pediatric psychologist or psychiatrist or counselor immediately. Especially when the behavior includes violence towards others. I don't think this is just "challenging" behavior. I'm sorry to speak so strongly, but I urge you to seek immediate help before he hurts himself or someone or really injures one of the cats or kittens.
I must say I agree with Ginny. You need to get ahold of his Ped. Sounds like something is not right. Children with allergies can act out like this like posted above.. I think a nice talk with his Ped is in order first and for most. He/She will know the proper channels to go through. And if a Mental health profresional is in order. Contact your insurance and find out who is coverd by your insurance in your area and how you go about referals for mental health coverage... On the back of you insurance card there should be two numbers.. One for medical care and one for mental health. Mental health is generally coverd through a diffrent area than the medical coverage is and has its own seperate number. If the number is not on the card call the regular insurance number and ask them how they handle mental health treatment. Most insurance companies are different. Some don't need refferals as long as you see a coverd provider. Some need a presciption of treatment submitted to the Psychiatrist by your Ped. And others need your Ped to do a phone referal prior to having the appointment set up at which time they are given a number and that is given to the Psych office when the appointment it set up. Mental heath coverage may not be coverd by your insurance as you primary care is handled. You may not need a referal to see a specialist for medical treatment. Example being a ENT. But don't just assume that is the way your Mental health is coverd. With DH being ill I have learned a bit about the coverage and I just want to make sure you have all your t's crossed and your i's dotted. Mental health treatment is very costly... And if their guide lines aren't followed they will refuse to make payments and you will be stuck with the bill. And don't trust the Ped's office to know about what is and isn't coverd by your insurance. They handles a half a dozen insurance cards a day. Some have the same name but diffrent levels of coverage.
All that said... I would have him checked out... Trust me, you aren't happy he is not happy. It might be nothing. It might be something. But you won't know until you have a professional take a look and see what he thinks. And if nothing else MAYBE they can give you some tools to deal with him...
This web site had some kind advice for parents with difficult children (just so happens the children have adhd.)
http://www.bestdoctors.com/en/askadoctor/g/glanzman/mglanzman_012400_q6.htm
I just read this and I sound like a know it all idiot. But this is just my experience. I really don't care if other people spank if it works for them. But it doesn't sound like the spanking is working with your son.
My son is developmently delay with very poor attention to listening. and the time outs work with him like magic.
I agree with Ginny and Bobbie - go to the Ped. He might also need some free Occupational Therapy to deal with his senses overwhelming him. The school district should also be able to get you into a free parenting class to help you. I am going to start the free parenting classes because my son is climbing on me constantly and the speech therapist noticed I needed them to deal with my son. That is fine with me, I need all the help I can get.
This is just my experence with my son and what worked with us. This is only what I would do. My son is three and a half.
I should make it clear we tried spanking and all that happened was my son laughed at me and two minutes later he was back to bad behavior. If he didn't laugh, he ran away and repeated bad beavior two minutes later. He also hit me back.
It was clear after I started the time outs that I was teaching my son to be aggressive by spanking him.
Since we started time outs he doesn't hit or pinch anyone. The school said he was completely non agressive now.
Due to my experience with my son, I suspect you son might be hitting because you hit him. Sorry that is just what I suspect. My son stopped hitting when I stopped hitting... Totally none of my busines but that is my experience.
My son is quite a handful. I do not hit him because it would be a waste of time. I would be hitting him all day long. We do the time outs only. I have really stepped up the time outs because I can't have him wandering off anymore in public places.
He also want to tell me which way we are going and how long we stay anywhere. He thinks he is the president. How exhausting it must be for a three year to try to run the world!
I time him out even at the store with everyone looking at me. He sits on the floor and gets his time out. He might cry the entire three minutes (if he is very tired) or just sit quietly. It is great. He gets to decide if he wants three time outs on the way to the car or he is going to hold my hand and walk to the car. I don't care who sees or how many dirty looks we get. I don't care if we look like idiots. I physically can't carry him long distances anymore (he weights 43 pounds) He has to listen to me and not run off and hold my hand when I say to hold my hand. He can't dictate his life at three years old. He can't run the household though he would like to.
I am really glad we just do the time outs because I get really angry at him (rarely) and it is just great the time outs. I probably spank out of anger and hurt the poor kid.
The time outs really really work. I just have to accept that is what my son needs. Since I never hit him - he never hits anyone or bites or kicks. The school said he was non aggressive.
It is exhausting trying to teach him not to wander off but I see improvement.
I might also try a plain diet for him. No candy - no food colorings - no suger - no preservatives including the preservatives they use at Mcdonalds for the chicken nuggest and fries. You could ask the doctor about allergy testing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=3395307&dopt=Citation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=8179235&dopt=Citation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=8257176&dopt=Citation
I am afraid I would just put him back in diapers. Sounds like he isn't ready. Kids are being trained at 4 and a half now a days. I also like some sort of nursery school for my son to give us both a break.
As I said this is only what I would do. I would give away the animals. I couldn't have ds learning to abuse animals. I might try timing him out when I see him hitting the animals.
Again, what I would do, I would ignore the screaming. I might quietly say, please stop screaming. If it was driving me nuts I would time him out for screaming. DS didn't say a word until two years old so screaming wouldn't bother me that much.
Again this is only what I would do. Since the main issue to me is him hitting his sister and hitting the animals, I would tell him quietly not to yell "Stupid Mommy" but I might ignore it because of the "Main" issues.
I don't think you can work on all problems at once, I would just focus on the hitting, biting and punching the sister and hitting cat issues.
I also try to catch ds being good and say, "What a good job playing gentle with the cat or dd.)
Thanks for the responses. After I posted I sat down and really thought about what might be going on here. I said there have been no changes and I guess that there have been no major changes, but I realized that there have been some smaller changes that I hadn't thought about that might be contributing to his behavior. DD has started back to school, I am raising an orphan kitten that was quite ill and I had not let ds hold her but I do let dd on occasion, I have been really busy and stressed lately and I realized that I have not been giving my ds the same amount of attention he is used to and I have basically scrapped a schedule with him (and I have been letting him skip naps a few times a week), and he is getting ready to start preschool and I told him a while back that he has to use the potty all the time to go to school because (they won't accept him unless he is completely potty trained and looking back, he was almost completely trained until I started talking about school). So after much thought I think that maybe he is acting out to get my attention that has been lacking lately. I'm not saying I ignore him, but I have been giving him less time than usual and I seem to be giving him more negative attention when I notice him behaving badly rather than positive attention for good behavior. I also think that maybe I had better put him back on a schedule to give him that security even though it will be tough for me right now to follow. He has always been more of a schedule person. I gave him a little extra time at bed time last night and little extra time this morning when he got up, and I have told him how good his manners are when he uses them, given extra hugs and "I love yous", and just generally I've been trying to catch him being good and give him a few extra minutes here and there and today has been much better so maybe I've managed to look at the situation a little more clearly and figured it out (I hope), but I plan to check out the sites posted and give his ped a call (I hope it doesn't come to that!) if things continue to escalate after I have made an effort to change what I see is wrong and I am going to look into getting the book too. I've seem people here post about it before.
I don't really think I would be allergies. He hasn't eaten anything unusual lately. He is a pretty good eater and likely to pick a piece of fruit for a snack rather than junk food if given the choice. He mostly drinks water, oj, or milk. Fast food is rare here and he hasn't had it in about a month and candy is not a regular item in our house either. I have heard about allergies to red and blue dye causing behavior problems and I will check the labels and see if those are in anything he's been eating lately and cut those items out for a while and see what happens.
I don't know if spanking him is causing him to hit or not. I do not like to spank and my parents and dh both say that I am wasting my time with spanking him because I barely touch him. He doesn't cry at all. I never want to spank in anger so I suppose that my spankings are ineffective because they don't cause him discomfort. He has never hit me or dh. While I do not like him hitting his sister, she is not completely innocent and pushes his buttons until he gets angry and frustrated. The way he is being mean to the cats bothers me a great deal. Our older cat will be laying on the floor asleep and he will come up and kick her for no reason at all. He won't even be angry or upset about anything. He thinks it's funny to watch her jump up and run. It disturbs me and is what will prompt me to put him in some kind of counseling if it doesn't stop very soon. I have been using timeouts for a very long time, but they are ineffective with him. He just goes right back to the offense the moment he gets out of the corner or his room. As for the potty, I think that my stress over it is causing too much pressure for him. He was trained and has now reverted. If he isn't completely trained by Sept 2nd we lose his spot at preschool and I lose my deposit. I think that school would be wonderful for him and I love the school (my dd went there). I told him at bedtime last night that he was in charge of whether he used the potty or his pants from now on and when he was ready to be a big boy and wear big boy underware then let me know. Then I put a pull-up on him. This morning he got up and peed and pooped in the potty first thing, said he was ready to be a big boy, threw the dry pull-up in the trash and put on his big boy underware and hasn't had an accident since. I'm scratching my head because I can't believe that a little extra attention and taking the pressure off of him to use the potty has caused him to be so completely different today than he has been for the past few weeks. I won't expect it to last, but I hope it does for at least a couple of days.
Again, thanks to you all. I appreciate the responses and I think just posting and venting helped me look at the situation a little better and see what might really be going on. Before I posted I was so frustrated and at the end of my rope, but afterwards I was able to really think about it. Funny how that can happen.
Sounds like things are moving in the right direction. Hope it continues.
So glad things are moving in the right direction.
Yes, sometimes writing it out and reading what you've written, plus getting supportive and somewhat analytical advice from friends, are both helpful.
I am so very glad everything is moving in the right direction and really, really hopes it continues that way.
Glad to hear things are better!
Hope he continues to do well. It is amazing what our mood and behavior does to the people around us huh??? Good luck and don't ever be afraid to let it go here.
Well, today so far so good. He has started to act up a couple of times this morning and I used Dana's idea and told him that he could behave and have a hug or he could be naughty and be in trouble. He has opted for the hug every time and it has diffused the situations. I am continuing to give him extra attention and I took him to the library, just him and me, as a special treat for being such a good boy yesterday. He did hit the kitten once last night while dd was holding it and he had to stand in the corner and listen to me tell him again how he has to be gentle, but that is the only punishment I've had to give him. Things are still looking up. Yea!!!
That is great news. When the start behaving and we can get off our "in trouble" mode, it really makes everything so much better.
I know during my most difficult times w/ DD, my attitude was at its worse which made anything she did 10x worse then they are when I am feeling better.
Glad the hugs work. Keep it up. As I said, the hardest is when they are doing great and you "could" just continue working on your own things...but if you realize that if they were doing poor behavior, you would take the time to get up for discipline, then it makes it easier to get up and give them that well deserved hug. (I mean when it never got to "hug or spanking" ...they just immediately changed to good behavior without the battle even starting. That's when I need to work to stop what I'm doing to give physical recognition.)
I remember when my church sponsored a Guatemalan refugee family. They never, never, never hit their children, not even a tap. And never raised their voices to them, or punished/disciplined in any way we would recognize as punishment or discipline. When a child acted up, mom or dad would pick up the child and cuddle and hug and talk gently or sing to him/her, for as long as it took, until the child calmed down and wanted to act nicely. And it worked - these kids are pretty grown up now and really fine people.
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