Still undecided about school
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive July-December 2003:
Still undecided about school
School starts on September 2 and I still have no idea which school I am going to send dd to.
My choices are:
(1) Catholic Separate School Division
She would be entering grade two. This is her first communion year and that is done during religion classes although we could prepare her at home. The class presently has 28 children (21 boys and 7 girls). It is a K-12 school.
(2) Public School
Here they have two grade two classes. I have heard one teacher is quiet and calm and the other is somewhat mean and strict. Students don't know who their teacher will be until a couple of days before school starts. It is estimated that each of the classes will have around 24 children. It is a K-7 school.
Our last school was so good. There was little to no bulleying and the academic expectations were very high. Plus, the entire school only had 110 students so each student was known by name and everyone played with everyone. We had a couple of incidents when we thought the discipline might have been a bit extreme but overall we quite pleased with the school which makes it so hard to move to a new one as we will always compare it to the one we had for kindergarten and grade one.
Any insights??
A hard decision! Makes me VERY glad I'm impressed and happy with our public school system. Do you have to pay tuition for Catholic school in Canada? Seems I remember my cousin (in ON) saying it was free. Tuition costs alone in my area are enough to scare people away from private school. A deciding factor right there! LOL! Twenty-eight students is a large class. I think I'd lean toward giving the public school a try first. Especially if tuition was an issue.
My first thought was at the private school these kids may have been together now for a couple of years. It may be hard for your dd to break into the group. In public school this could be true to. But you seem to have a few new kids each year. IMO 7 girls is not very many. What does your dd want to do? Have you visited both schools and talked with the teachers? Can you request the teacher you want in the public school? Just a few thougts. Good Luck!
Making my first communion with my classmates was a memorable experience for me. It's not the just ceremony but the preparations leading up to!
I'm also a mother of a separate school student and I commend the separate school system's religious curriculum. It's something I couldn't teach my children at that level!
Trina, whether or not there are tuition costs for Catholic schools depends on which province you reside in. We are in Alberta now and there are no tuition costs involved.
You all make some great points:
- large class at the Catholic School
- making communion with a group of friends
- the fact that it might be harder to break into the group of 7 girls
I guess both schools have their advantags and disadvantages. We haven't met any of the teachers in the school setting. I did met the nicer grade two teacher of the public school last night at the park. She was nice but I wouldn't consider her to be overly friendly. We actually went to her home to introduce ourselves but her husbamd said they were at the park so we saw them there. Please don't think we were stalking her or anything. They only live about 5 houses down the road and the neighbours had said they had a daughter the same age as dd so we were trying to make her some friends.
DD doesn't know which school she wants to go to. First she wanted to go to the public school because she likes the playground. Then, during swimming lessons she met a little girl who went to the Catholic school that she liked so then she decided she wanted to go there. The little girl though is going into grade one and dd will be in grade two.
I'm just so afraid of making the wrong choice and dd suffering from it. Academically, I haven't heard anything bad about either school. DD has most often played with children younger than her so she's quite immature. My main concern right now is the socialization. I want her to make some good friends.
Why is this so hard????
Karen, what is a separate school? What is their religious curriculum?
Paula, just based on the large class at the Catholic school, and mostly based on the severe shortage of girls, I would go public. You can always switch her if she's miserable. I know that's not desirable, but really, it's not THAT bad to do. How else will you know where she 'belongs'?
As far as making her communion with her class, yes, that would be nice, (although, again, it's only with SEVEN other girls. That few girls would have made me totally miserable at her age. What if the boys are awful? They're in the MAJOR majority!! What if the poor teacher is so overwhelmed with TWENTY ONE boys that she spends all her time disciplining them and the girls get overlooked all the time? I'm not putting down boys here, truly, but that is a serious number of boys for one poor teacher at that grade level!!) Sorry, back to my point....making her communion with her class would be nice, but working with you and your husband would be special, too! I went to public, but had to go to CCD religion classes to prepare, so I did that in a class setting and it was almost like the whole preparing with your class thing. Do they have CCD there?
With the public school having two classes, the boy to girl ratio will be much more even. This is hard for you because she is your child and you want what's best for her and there are no guarantees. Your hesitation and anxiety are totally understandable! Just remember, you CAN switch her if it seems you've chosen the wrong school! It's not the end of the world, you're not signing her up at one school for LIFE!
Sorry for the rambling, but my final vote goes for public based on the huge class size and the huge majority of boys. Good luck!
Kate - the Catholic schools in Canada are called "separate" schools. It is a catholic based curriculum. I believe, now don't quote me on this.....If you kids do not go to a catholic school, in order to make their sacraments, they must participate in the "preparatory" courses through your church. I know our church has a wonderful co-op Sunday school program that is mandatory for kids that go to public schools if they want to have the sacarments at our church.
On the discussion of boys out numbering girls..... My dd, olivia, is in the kind of class now. Just finished both JK and SK with 7 girls, 14 boys. Yes the schoolyard was a little rougher, but she was blessed with 2 teachers who took gender into consideration.
Having taught grade 2, I think 28 is WAY too many. 24 is manageable (BTDT), but 28 is intolerable. I would have freaked as a teacher with that boy girl ratio too. Second grade boys can be very "boyish" at that age... I'd give the public schools a try first.
We moved into a house from a rental property the summer before my older dd was in second grade. She is pretty friendly and had no trouble at all finding a group of friends. It was nice that it worked out to move in the summer, so she got to start at the new school on the first day of school 7 years ago.
It was much harder for me to find "mom" friends when we went to social events at school. The first few made me feel a bit lost. That eventually got better too, as I managed to meet more parents as time went by. Now, my kids are all done with that elementary school and I feel a bit sad not to be going there anymore.
I think my kids had about 21-22 in a class for second grade. For 5th grade, they had more like 27-28. This was a public school. We can't afford private tuition. Besides hubby and I went to public schools ourselves and have gotten by just fine.
Dawn, there are no tuition costs for the Catholic school. If there were, it wouldn't be an issue...she would definitely go to the public.
I'm so torn. My brain and my experience as a teacher tells me that the public school is probably the better choice. I spoke to a teacher from the public school who has a son attending the Catholic school and she had some issues in grade 1 and expects more in grade 3. Things like bulleying not being addressed immediately, promises being made to the children and not kept and marks being given with no really solid data to support the mark. She had no major issues with the grade 2 teacher but dd will go to grade 3 next year and the bulleying and promise issues are school wide, not grade specific. However, her child is shy and doesn't want to move to the public school.
My heart and soul on the other hand, want my child to have the religion classes and make communion with a group of friends. Also, I'm not sure what the reception at church will be if we chose not to send our child to the Catholic school.
I'm just not sure which body part to listen to: brain or heart and soul.
Well, my opinion is this...if the church gives you a chilly reception because you don't send your child to their school, then I think the church has a problem and you should find another one. Have you any indication to think this will be the case? It wouldn't be the case where I live, in New York, but I realize every place is different. Church is supposed to welcome and include people and demonstrate the love of Christ. To make you feel bad in any way for a decision you make that is totally acceptable in God's eyes would be just wrong. You plan to have her make her communion no matter what, and that's all that should matter.
If the Catholic school puts up with bullying and makes false promises, what kind of message of Christ are they sending?? It doesn't sound like a good place for any child, in my opinion. The public school teacher who sends her son to Catholic makes no sense to me....the Catholic school seemed to have the larger classes, so if he's shy I'd think he'd be better off in public with smaller class sizes. I also think your daughter would be better off in public with the smaller class size and the better ratio of girls to boys.
I stated above that you can always change your mind! There are no certainties in life but in this one case you can fix it if you make a mistake and send her to the wrong school.
I'm no longer Catholic, I consider myself a born again Christian and my daughter attends a non denominational Christian school, and I do wholly appreciate the solid biblical education she is getting. I understand you'd like your daughter to get a Catholic education, but from what you've described the school doesn't seem Christ like enough.
I didn't realize you were a former teacher...in that case I would definitely follow your teacher brain; you have an inside knowledge of how things work and how kids respond. Making her communion with a group of friends doesn't seem a good enough reason, IMO. Wouldn't it be special to make it with the guidance and support of her family? YOU and your husband would be much more involved and I think you'd more enjoy the experience. It's an opportunity to share with her this special moment in a more intimate way than if some teacher was sharing it along with 28 other kids.
Good luck....I know what it's like to be frozen and unable to make a decision for fear of making the wrong one. But this isn't a surgical option or a vaccine that you can't take back...this is just school and you can flip flop back and forth between schools if you had to. Again, it's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. Put her in public..if it's awful switch her to Catholic for the next semester. Or start her in Catholic and switch her to public if it's awful.
Thanks for your insights Kate. You make some very valuable points. The Catholic school does have smaller class sizes, in most cases. My daughter's class is the exception. However, as I've come to learn from talking to others, smaller class sizes don't necessarily mean more student-teacher time. For instance, the public school parent I spoke to indicated that although her son was in a small class, the teacher took more of relaxed attitude and perhaps saw the opportunity as a chance to lay back a bit. Myself, on the other hand, would see a smaller class size as an opportunity to spend more one-on-one time with each child.
I know you are right and in my heart of hearts I know that sending her to the public school is probably the best option right now. My mom passed away several years ago. I wish I could talk to her right now. I'm worried that she might be disappointed in me if I had the opportunity to send her to a catholic school tuition free and didn't.
Thanks again!
Oh Paula! I see now why this is ESPECIALLY hard for you with you worrying about disappointing your mom, even though she's not here. I'm sure there are wonderful Catholic schools out there, and if the one near you was really wonderful this wouldn't be a hard decision for you. Try not to think your mom would frown on your decision. If she were here she might feel that particular school wasn't right, too. The school isn't the only place for your daughter to learn of your faith. It is first and foremost YOUR job to teach her that. Back up from the school would be nice but if this Catholic school was right for your daughter you wouldn't be struggling right now.
Mind you, this is all just my opinion! You're obviously a wonderful, caring mom or else this wouldn't be such a struggle for you. You'll make the right decision in the end, no matter which one you make. And if your mom were here she would no doubt remember the many struggles she went through making decisions as a parent. I'm sure she'd be proud of your striving so hard to do best by your daughter. Tuition free is certainly an incentive, but just 'cause it's free doesn't mean it's the best option.
Paula, how important do you feel it is for your dd to be recieving the back-up of what you are teaching them at home? Personally we are planning to send our kids to a Christian school because we feel that they can back up the things we are teaching them at home. We are very conservative Christians. The public schools here are very liberal. This does not mix. Maybe you could look at the curriculum. If the public school is teaching things that don't coincide with your religious beliefs it might be a good idea to send her to the Catholic school. On the other hand, I went to a Catholic school for 12 years and we were taught all about evolution, birth control (not abstinence), and other issues you would not expect to see in a Catholic school. I enjoyed my school experience, but we did have the same problems that all schools have, such as cliques, fights, drugs, sex, etc. Our school system sounds a lot different than yours, though, because here you have to pay, therefore, the classes are much smaller, and they aren't really regulated by the government as much. They, of course, need to accredited, but the parents have a lot more say in how the schools are run because they are not government funded.
How is your decision going? Have you figured it out yet?
Oops, I overlooked your final post. I see you are leaning towards the public. Good luck to you!
As for religious training, your kids will learn from you first. Nothing can top their learning more than your own actions that you take in your own life.
You're right Dana...I am leaning toward the public school but I keep flip flopping. I need to make a definite decision by Thursday.
Decision made...public school!
I think you made the right decision. I just wanted to comment on your comment about class size. The research says that low class size with a combination of a highly qualified teacher is the best. Certainly, if you have low class size and an inexperienced (or lazy as you site in your example) teacher, the class size thing doesn't matter. With that being said, IMHO you have the best chance of getting a highly qualified teacher in the public school. CErtainly there are good teachers in Catholic School, but simple economics speak loudly. Where I live (CT), a Catholic teacher who has 8 years of experience makes about $29,000. A public school teacher with the same amount of experience makes about $55,000. That is a HUGE difference. Certainly teachers are altruistic creatures by nature, but they also have families to feed, clothe! Also, public school teachers need to be certified- which means they have a certain amount of training (how much depends on the state). IN my state, that training is very intense.
Anyhow, that's my food for thought for now. Hope it all works out!
PS I'm a public school teacher! 
OOps, I see you're from Canada. I'm not sure about certification requirements there. Something to look into...
Laura...both Catholic schools and public schools require teachers to be certified. I'm a teacher also although I will just be subbing here as there are no job openings.
Certification depends on the province. I am now certified to teach in Nova Scotia, British Columbia and Alberta. I have permanant certification in NS and BC but have to teach 2 years in Ab first.
As far as pay scale goes, it depends on the province. If you live in a province that has Catholic Separate Schools which are provincially funded the teachers make the same as a public school teacher. However, if the school operates on tuition, the teachers generally make about 10 000 less than their public school counterpart.
Hmmm.... that's interesting. Totally different in the states!
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