I have no idea what to do...please help!
Moms View Message Board: Parenting Discussion: Archive January-June 2003:
I have no idea what to do...please help!
First, let me say that I'm really hating this single parent thing and I know my patience is growing real thin.
Tonight, the kids were fooling around at the dinner table. I had to yell at them to get them to eat. Finally, they finished and went off to brush their teeth. They were fooling around in the bathroom so I set the timer and I told them that there would be no story if they weren't in bed when the timer went off. It went off and they were still fooling around so I went to check on them. When I got there, my dd (almost 7) was having ds (3) tickle her "gina" with his toothbrush. OMG!!! He didn't have it inside, just near the area. It's one of those rotating toothbrushes.
Help! What do I do? We use to have a jetted tub and we had to stop letting her have the jets on because she would let the water blow there.
Is this normal 7 year old female behavior? I spoke to her to try to get some sense of where she would even get these ideas. She says no one has ever touched her vagina. I'm at a loss and don't know what to do.
She's been getting into a bit of trouble at school too. Yesterday she had a half day in-school suspension because she was talking in the bootroom when she was taking her coat and shoes off. The principal asked her to stop and she didn't so she was asked to go to the office. She ignored the principal and went to class so yesterday she had a morning suspension. Altough, I feel that talking in the bootroom isn't really cause for getting sent to the office, she was told to do so and totally ignored the person in charge.
I need parenting advice big time. I'm stressed and so upset. Please help!
I wouldn't be too worried if dd was exploring by herself. However, it does raise a concern when it involves your ds. I'm not sure how to deal with this, but I would start with a sincere talk with your daughter. If she is exploring her private areas, it is probably time for a talk with her about private areas, the concept of masturbation if you think that is in order, etc. Take it at your own pace according to your concerns. But you should make it clear that she should never involve her brother in that sort of behavior or exploring again. Good luck!
I used to masterbate by letting the jets in our spa run on my vagina. I wasn't doing it that young, but close to that age. I didn't understand at the time why it felt good, just that it did. So I agree with Semperspencer when she said you should have the masterbation talk with her. You didn't say how you felt about masterbation. The thing with her brother and the toothbrush worries me because he is involved. I know it's not uncommon for kids close in age who are related to explore what the other kid has, not saying do sexual things, just "Hey, I don't have that, you do" kind of thing. But the age difference concerns me, because your DS doesn't know why he's doing that, and DD is almost definitely making him do it. I would definitely explain masterbation, and how it's an alone thing, and mention that using her brother's electric toothbrush may hurt her. Make it very clear that it is ok to explore your body ALONE, but putting objects near or in your vagina can be dangerous. I really have no other advice, just that she is starting to realize things can feel good "down there" and that is a normal process of sexual development. If you continue to catch her involving her brother you may need to take more drastic measures. As far as the in-school suspension, I agree that was drastic on the school's part, but she should have listened to the person in charge. You should have a talk about how sometimes things aren't fair, but if someone in charge tells you to do something you do it. Explain that if it's something dangerous or abusive, then it's ok to refuse, but otherwise you must listen to the person in charge. Personally, I would also explain that if you disagree with what the person tells you to do, do it, and then talk to Mommy and Daddy about it later. I guess I'm rambling now, so I'll end this here.  ((((hugs))))
Great advice Anon!
The phrase we use in my house is, they are your privates, please be private about it..LOL. I haven't had a talk with my dd, (9) she has started touching herself a little, and I just say hey if you need to touch your girl parts please go be alone. I make no big deal about. However if my youngest child was involved, I think I might would be inclined to be angry. Plain and simple she just forced a sexual act on your son, I realize it wasn't malicious, but still. I think I would just have to tell her in no uncertain terms. if you want to touch your private parts that is up to you, but it no situation is it okay to let your brother touch them. The only people who are allowed to touch them are the doc and me IF you have a medical issue. I would lay it on thick with the respect for your body and such. Good luck!
I agree with anonymous and Kaye, except I wouldn't lay it on TOO thick. I would just be matter-of-fact, unless she's being malicious. I think so far you can chalk it up to her not knowing better, and once you tell her, let it go.
About the fooling around at dinner etc., I would go easy on them about that, too. I definitely wouldn't take away the story time...it's too important. If they're fooling around in the bathroom, just go in and say, "Come on guys, let's finish up" (don't yell). I know it must be hard being a single mother to two such young kids, but if you get in the mode of yelling and threatening too much, they don't hear you anymore. Pick your battles, just the really important stuff, and don't let that slide. For me, that's back talking. But kids are kids and they take long to eat and get ready for bed. Especially at that age. I'd ease up on that stuff, maybe the occasional, 'Let's go guys', and concentrate and repsecting you, teachers, adults, etc. What anonymous said about explaining how she has to listen to the person in charge was good.
Wow...we haven't even approached this kind of issue yet and believe me I'm not looking forward to it.
Obviously a talk with her would be in order. Your beliefs will influence this talk. I'm sure you'll do a great job, you sound like a good mom
My kids will be taught that we are not recommended to materbate. My oldest DD that is 4 has looked around down there and figured out what she has and hasn't got. (this was after my DS was born and she noticed something different lol) That's as far as we've gotten though. Hopefully we have a few more years before things go further.
Ok....I meant masterbate not materbate....that was an embarrasing spelling error lol.
Paula,
It is funny you brought this topic up. Just yesterday my 4 year old was using the shower nozzle to wash his body and stopped right on his penis and said giggling"this tickles..." I think it is very normal for kids to be curious, just keep an eye on them from now on. Have the talk with your daughter and explain that a toothbrush is used on your teeth not your private parts..etc
Some kids tend to be alot more curious than others! Goodluck
Thanks for the advice everyone. I've calmed down about it now. I talked to her and asked her where she got the idea. She said they were playing and the toothbrush accidently hit there and it felt good. I did talk to her and explained that she is never to ask her brother to be involved in anything like that again.
I think I am just overwhelmed with the whole single parent thing and I'm just not handling things well. I will be so glad when school is over and we can all be together again.
I understand how you feel. Just try to stay relaxed and calm, at least its not the end of the world. Just something I'm sure everyone has to go through with their dk's....
I'm sure you're doing fine. There will always be these ups and downs. Ever see that movie, "Parenthood" with Steve Martin? I think about this movie a lot, because there's a couple who are obsessed with teaching their daughter all this advanced stuff with flash cards and everything. Then there are Steven Martin's kids…one bangs his head on the wall, another flubs up at baseball and the kids hate him. His wife tells him that parenthood is like a rollercoaster, which is fun. But he DOESN'T LIKE rollercoasters. So, just try to enjoy the rollercoaster. The ups and down are all part of it. We're all just trying to hang on, getting scared, having fun.
I am glad that your feeling better about it Paula. How is she dealing with the divorce? Is it possible that her acting out at school might have something to do with that? I agree that no talking in the bootroom seems a bit harsh, but rules are rules even if we don't agree with them. I have had to bite my toung a few times this year about little things too!! But on the other issue. Maybe I am over cautious about these issues, but if the same thing that you described would happen in my home, I would really be worried. I know this only involved your two children, but look at it this way. Lets say that it was a little friend who was using the toothbrush on your dd that way. How would you react to it then? My immediate reaction would be that someone is messing with that child. Are you 100% sure that your daughter has not been touched? PLEASE remember, it can even be another child that could have talked to her about these things!! Quite a few years ago when my dd was only 4, a neice of mine told my dd some things. She never touched her or anything, but just told her somethings that dd in turn told me about. I called my SIL about it and she blew it off as kids being kids etc. A few months later, she has another encounter with another neice of mine and after further investigation, it was discovered that she was having some things done to her by a boy cousin of hers!! (on the other side of the family) So even though she was never out of my SIL's home, it was being done right under her roof while she was watching this nephew of hers!!! I agree that some type of touching of themselves is normal, but honestly, I was floored when you said she was doing that with the toothbrush. And not to say she is fibbing, but I also don't see how it could just fall right on that area! PLEASE check into this further. Like I said, I seem to be on the extream of this issue, but I feel it is better safe than sorry. I am just really surprised that I am the only one saying this! I saw red flags through out your entire post!!! I really hope that I am dead wrong and nothing is happening or has happened. But I don't think I could let it go at this point!! Best wishes to you. It has to be so hard to be going at this alone!
PaulaS, first, I agree, the single parenting thing is often the pits. Been there, done that.
Now, sorry to say, I tend to agree with Vicki. Although your daughter said they were playing and the toothbrush accidently hit there", I would have to wonder just how they were playing that the toothbrush got near her vaginal area.
For starters, I would make sure they bathe and are in the bathroom alone, not with each other, even for tooth brushing. Maybe you need to supervise both baths and toothbrushing, at least for a while, certainly with your 3 year old son. And, if they are playing together and in another room, I would check up on them fairly frequently for the next few months at least, just to see what is going on.
My concern would be that someone has told her about some things, and she was trying them out, out of curiousity. And I would be concerned about who may have talked with her.
Yes, masturbation is normal. Your daughter is 7, and was younger when you stopped letting her use the tub with jets - at that age, "if it feels good, do it". Better, I think, to tell her that it is normal for people to feel good when they are touching themselves in that area, if she wants to do this she must do it in her own bedroom in complete privacy and alone. Personally, I had three sons and I expected them to try masturbation, so when they did I simply emphasized the fact that this was a very private activity. If you are bothered that she masturbates, that's another story. I do think it is a normal thing for any human being to do, and I do not think it is harmful or wrong so long as it does not become an obsession. If you think differently, you will have to find a way to cope, because she and your ds are both going to masturbate, and filling them with guilt over a normal activity (by all medical and psychological teaching) will only drive them to being very furtive.
I think you should, with both children, begin emphasizing the whole good touch/bad touch thing - and that neither of them is to let anyone other than mommy or the doctor touch them in their private areas, and only if the private area hurts or there is something wrong there. And that talking about private areas with anyone other than mommy or the doctor is a bad idea, because some people consider this kind of talk to be nasty and it could get them in trouble. Kids in school do pick up things, and do talk about them. You really don't know, as Vicki pointed out, whether another child who has seen a sexual activity, been told about sexual activities, or even seduced or forced into some sexual activity has talked to your daughter about sexual things.
I would also check with the principal and get his/her side of the boot room story. I find it a bit odd that he would tell her not to talk in the boot room, unless he didn't like the things she was saying. That should be checked out. As for the suspension - well, he is an authority and she did disobey by not going to the office, so that is one of the hazards. But there are at least three sides to every story (yours, mine, and what really happened), and it is worth touching base with the principal on a sort of: My dd told me that you told her not to talk in the boot room and when she kept on talking you told her to go to the office - and that she got an in-school suspension for not going to the office. Certainly if my dd disobeyed your instruction to go to the office she has to accept the consequences, but it struck me as a bit unusual that you would tell her not to talk in the boot room unless it was more than that, so I wanted to check into it. Could you tell me from your point of view what happened?
One of the awful things about single-parenting is not having the other parent to share your worries and concerns with. Which is why I'm glad you came to the board with this concern. It really does help to talk about worries, concerns and frustrations, even if no solution comes up. At least you know you are not alone.
Vicky...I'm not divorced. My husband lost his job recently here and had to move for a job. Since I'm working we felt it best to finish out the school year. We will move to where he is at the end of June.
About the bootroom incident...I am a teacher at the school. DD is in my classroom so I have a pretty close eye on her at all times. Our students line up outside and enter the bootroom one class at a time. The room has to be cleared before the next class comes in otherwise it gets overcrowded and accidents happen. DD was socializing and not getting her shoes off and coat hung up quickly enough. She was asked to stop talking and hurry up so that the next class could come in. When she didn't the principal asked her to go to her office. She just planned to talk to her and then send her back to class but she didn't go and then it became a big issue rather than a small one.
About the toothbrush incident...we've talked extensively about it and she says no one has ever touched her. She knows now that if she must touch herself (which I really don't like but am learning that it is part of normal development) that she must do so in her room and that it is private. I believe that no one has touched her. I don't really think I am being naive about it. We don't have family here so no chance of relatives doing anything and she doesn't have any boy friends come over to play. We run a pretty tight ship at our school (as you can probably tell from the bootroom incident) so I don't think anything would have happened at school.
It's good that I can come here to ask questions. I told DH about it as soon as it happened but there's just something about a mom's perspective that really sheds light on things. I thank you guys so much.
Ginny...thanks for the suggestions. We've talked and dd must always have clothes on now. She just wears underwear to bed so often after her bath she will just put her underwear on. She now knows that she must put on her pjs and then when she goes to bed once her door is closed she may take them off. I've explained that she's getting too old to run around with her breasts showing. She'll be 7 in June. Most times I brush their teeth since the dentist said I should. The day in question I was so tired that I let them do it themselves. I won't do that again. Also, we have been pretty lacks about closing the bathroom door. I can't remember when the last time it was closed. I've talked to both dd and ds and from now on, we are in the bathroom alone and the door is closed.
Paulas~ I am sorry that I assumed that since you were talking about single parenting that you were going through a divorce. My bad !! I don't get to visit and read everyday and so I can't keep up with everything! Sorry again!!
No need to apologize Vicky. You had some good points. I'm hoping this is just a case of exploration and not a something that will become a habit. I appreciate you taking the time to read my rather long post and then give me some great advice and things to ponder.
Well, that certainly explains the bootroom incident. Sounds to me like you are very much on top of things.
I don't wonder that you get tired - single parenting, thinking about packing up and moving, teaching full time, and parenting full time. I volunteered in my sons' classrooms until I started working in an office, and decided that I did not want to go back to school to try to become a teacher because, frankly, it is very hard work. I think most people who are not teachers don't appreciate just how hard it is to work with anywhere from 20-30 children every day, lesson plans, keeping order, keeping a schedule, and keeping an eye on who might be in trouble academically or heading for trouble in other ways. I know I could not do it.
And, I completely understand your feelings about masturbation. A lot of it is how we ourselves are raised, and that is hard to change. And I think by and large "we" are more uncomfortable about it with little girls than with little boys, because little girls are supposed to be so much more innocent and protected and non-sexual. I do think telling her she must be fully clothed outside of her bedroom is a good idea, especially with a little brother who must also learn the same lesson. And bathroom privacy too, which should include mom and dad's bathroom privacy. It is part of that whole package of body privacy that our children must learn to be safer. (My parents were really poor by prevailing standards of that day and my brother and I shared a bedroom until I was 12. I remember that we both dressed and undressed in the bathroom and were never other than fully covered outside of the bathroom.) (I also remember a co-worker talking about both her 5 year old and 3 year old sons barging into the bathroom and her bedroom any time they feel like it, *and* commenting on her body if she is not covered - and her saying she can't do anything to stop them. Sheesh!)
Finally, I wonder if some of the behavior you describe in both children is their own reaction to having a temporarily "single" parent. It must be hard on them, too, having daddy gone, and beginning to think about moving, and having a mom who is doing her darndest but is only human and sometimes gets tired, with no daddy there to help pick up the slack. It's hard on all of you, but sounds like you'll get through it OK.
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