Hi all...I need some major input...First of all, I am new to the board and perhaps this should all be under Introduce Yourself...I will introduce myself there later....I am the mother of 3....11, 8 and 6 year old. I have been divorced from their daddy for 4 years. I have been remarried for a little over a year. Up until now all the children had done so well...Of course they had/have their moments of missing daddy which I never make light of, but we have survived. Their stepdad is great with them and so I thought we would all survive. Well now my 11 year old son wants to move with his daddy, who lives in another state. He cries and is depressed alot. He says that boys need to grow up with their daddys and that he still loves me and all. I would feel as if part of my soul left if he leaves, with or without my approval (courts have been mentioned by ex MIL). Also, my two youngest repeat what they see him doing and I think I will have to go thru this all again in a few years?? Tyler is a straight A student, active in Boy Scouts and church. The big attraction in MHO is that we have rules and discipline here, we have normal bedtimes, we have nutrious meals and we have guidance and structure and he rebels at the thought of it. When he is with his daddy most of his time is spent with ex MIL as he was always her pet and he was always close to her. She waits on him hand and foot, even dresses him and ties his shoes...packs his toast and Mountain Dew to bed to him for breakfast, lunch and dinner and caters to his every need. My ex gets the kids every other weekend and he will be the first to admit that its a full time party because when he sees them only 4 days average a month, he is not worried about being the mean parent. I can sympathize but not agree. I am so torn on what to do. I know that we all as mothers think we know whats best for our children but what do we do in times such as these?? Please any advice, BTDT....anything...Marsha in NC...

By Tonya on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 02:00 pm:

I have just one questoin have you talked to your EX about this and what does he say? If not then that would be my first step it is to see what he says.

I myself would say no sorry you are not old enough to make that decision and since there is nothing wrong in your home for them to remove your children then there is nothing EX-MIL can do in the courts to have this happen. The judge would require your son to have ar eally good reason as tyo why and if rules and bedtimes is all he has the judge will not allow it either.

Good luck.

By Susan10 on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 03:06 pm:

I think I would let him go. I think it's good for a kid to experience both parenting styles, and it's good for a boy to be with his dad. Your son sounds like a good kid and probably still will be a good kid after living with his dad for a while. If you don't let him go, he will always think about how great it WOULD have been. Let him experience realty. I wouldn't be surprised if after a while he'll be glad to come back.

By Debbie on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 03:15 pm:

First of, welcome Marsha. What a difficult situaion you are in. How does your ex feel about this. Does he want him to live with him?? I am sure you are right on about the reasons for your son wanting to live with his daddy. I am sure it is nothing but fun and games when he is there now. However, would this still be the case if he lived there permanently?? Do you feel like he is really depressed about this or is he just trying to get his way?? I think you are the parent and he is not old enough to make this decision. You have to do what you feel is right. If it is just about you missing him, then I think you have to try and put these feelings aside. I know this would be so difficult. I can't image my boys not living with me. If your ex is a good parent and you feel this would be best for your ds, then maybe a trial run this summer wouldn't hurt. However, if you feel it is not in the best interest of your ds, then I would say no to him.

By Ginnyk on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 07:04 pm:

I agree with Tonya - what does your ex say? Is he willing to have your ds live there and visit with you?

And I agree with Debbie, a trial run this summer might be a good idea, but with the caveat that he lives with daddy. Is ex-mil part of daddy's household? If not, I would suggest that if ds goes to live with daddy, he lives with daddy, not ex-mil. And have that in writing. (And maybe tell ex in advance that if Tyler comes to live with him, when the other two boys hit 10 or 11 they also are going to want to live with him, and he should be prepared for that.)

BTDT time - my ex had very little to do with our sons after we separated, until they got into their late teens. He didn't want any responsibility. But, I got a chance to go to Hawaii with my parents, and knew I could leave the then 22 year old and 17 year old home alone, but not the 15 year old (it was during the school year, and the 15 year old was a "problem" child). So, he went to live with his dad for two weeks. Well, at the end of two weeks, when I came home, both my ex and my 15 year old couldn't wait for me to get into the house before my son came "home".

I suspect that while your ds likes having grandma do everything for him 4 days a month, it will get real old real fast if it is 24/7. He is at the age where he is not going to be really happy with that kind of s-mothering. And, if he lives with ex, what about Boy Scouts, his friends, etc. Is he willing to start in a new school, with no friends?

So, all in all, I would suggest you put talk to ex and if he is willing to try it for a summer - the whole summer - that you put on a smile and tell ds that this is what you are going to do, and near the end of summer you and his father will discuss what is going to happen for the school year. (And if he wants to come back after a month, you say, well, we really agreed to a whole summer, and I don't want to go through any more of this "I want to live with my father" stuff, so I think you should really stay the whole summer. And if he really, really wants to come "home", then it should be with the clear understanding that, OK, we tried it and it didn't work and I don't want to hear any more about it - ever.

As for ex-mil mentioning courts, well, the fact is that unless her son (ex) is willing to do this and someone is willing to pay for it, I wouldn't worry about it. I don't think she has any legal standing unless the boy's father is willing to do something about it. I don't care what state you live in, as long as both parents are agreed on a custody and visitation agreement, no grandma in the world is likely to have legal standing. And, I don't know why you are even talking to the woman, who clearly raised (and from what you say badly spoiled) a man who is not able to be a good husband and full-time father. Don't let her get your goat - which is what she is trying to do.

And yes, I know how painful it is to even contemplate. So if you don't think you can live with it, then you have to tell ds that it isn't going to happen, and he should just live with it. If it is making him depressed, then he needs to go into counseling (after all, depressed people need counseling). If he wants to cry all the time, then he can go to his room to cry because he isn't going to walk around the house weeping and depressing everyone else. There is no good reason why he shoud be allowed to upset the rest of the family, and maybe if he gets less attention with his behavior he will find it doesn't have as much payoff.

And, I think counseling on the whole might be a good idea - family counseling. I really am inclined to think that Tyler has gotten some sort of bee in his head about this notion of "boys need to grow up with their father", heaven only knows from where (maybe ex-mil) - as if a full-time caring stepfather wasn't a more than adequate male role model, and he and you need to sort out just where this notion came from and why he seems to feel so strongly about it.

I, as a single parent, raised three boys with almost no assistance or involvement from their father after we separated. (I was married to a "Peter Pan" sort of guy, who never wanted to really grow up - and maybe your ex is that kind of guy.) They certainly suffered from the lack of a father actively involved in their lives, but they had plenty of male role models and, as adults, they are doing just fine. I too ran a strict house with rules and discipline, and as adults they all came back and told me that while they didn't appreciate it as adolescents and teens, as adults they very much appreciated that they had been forced to follow certain modes of behavior and been force-fed a value system, which served them well in the adult, real world (and they also appreciated that their friends who grew up in households with little discipline couldn't cope nearly as well with the adult, real world).

By Marsha on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:26 pm:

Lots of questions....I will try to skim over them and answer....Yes, I have talked with ex and he hasnt a clue as to how to handle this. He has always even when we were married left all parenting up to me. Do I think ex would be a suitable parent? Wow. To be honest with lots of soul searching...NO. He doesnt care what movies are rated when he takes the children each weekend. BTW...Tyler is 11, Destyne is 8 and Jericho is 6. And yes...all 3 go to rated R movies, thrillers, murders, sex, etc...No regard at all to the children and the level of stuff they are being introduced to. Ex was and still is a major kid himself. He has every game system known to humans and every game as well. He buys the boys games rated for Adults and when I send the games back to him, he just laughs like I am silly. He buys Tyler Gaming mags and stuff totally not for his age. Ex is a full time Paramedic on call from home 24/5 and is gone all hours of the day and night. His biggest thrill in life is his paintball team that he plays on professionally. He travels across the eastern states and lives for the newest, biggest paintball gun. Now to ex MIL...no ex is not a part of her household, bur he lives next door to her and she has and always has and always will run his life...yes, even at 33. Main reason I divorced him as did his second wife. She has never let go of the apron strings and frankly he has never shown much desire for her to do so. He preferred Mommy many times to Marsha and Marsha left. So anyways...if she says go to court...he would. She is always with him at his house when he has the kids. She has a major influence on him and our children...Last weekend when our children was with him, she let Tyler on a 4 wheeler unsupervised and a car hit him. Thank God he didnt get hurt but she told him not to tell me as I would pitch a fit and not let him come this summer as ex gets the kids 4 weeks a summer anyways. Well ex agreed with her and Tyler didnt dare tell me, the 6 year old let the cat out of the bag...When I confronted her she put my ex FIL on the phone and let him tell me about it as he was the one outside when the accident happened. I could go on for ever, but I will just stop here. Also they never see anything wrong that I do, yet they love to criticize my parenting.

By Ginnyk on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 09:48 pm:

Given this additional information, no, don't let Tyler live with his father. And start diarying what you know about what the kids are allowed to do when they are with him, as well as the inappropriate gifts, etc., in case ex-mil does get him to try to "take it to court".

Sheesh. Letting a kid on a four-wheeler, and unsupervised, and "don't tell mommy" when a car hits him. I'd be heading for court myself to cut down on visitation with daddy, if I thought it would do any good (which it probably wouldn't). But do diary/document. It can't hurt.

And do think about counseling. I would not be surprised if some of this is coming through Tyler from dear grandma, who may well be doing a propaganda thing with him that boys need their daddies (and never mind a perfectly good live-in stepfather who is trying his best). She may also be working on the possibility that Tyler has some perfectly natural resentment of his stepfather becoming the "man of the house" after three years of Tyler being the oldest male in the house. I suggest there may be a lot of things going on there and a good counselor can't hurt and may help.

By Susan10 on Tuesday, April 22, 2003 - 11:30 pm:

I have changed my previous opinion, and now agree with Ginny.

By Feona on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 09:14 am:

She told him not to tell you he was hit by a car!


Sounds like you are a much better parent! I would stop feeling guilty for being the responsible parent! You are definitely better for the kids that the ex.

I definitely think I would try the family therapy.

By Tonya on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 09:37 am:

I would have to say by your update that things are just fine the way they are. Sounds like dad is a kid himself and wouldn't know what to do if he had a kid 24/7. Yes he loves them but he doesn't exactly know how to raise them and since he is OK with the way things are you need to talk to him about getting your son to listen to you and go along with the house rules. Have EX explain to son that moving in with him would not change the rules.

By Karen55 on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 09:42 am:

NO.......your kids are much better off with you. I agree with Ginny, keep a journal, it will come in handy if this ends up in court. Cover all your bases.

By Debbie on Wednesday, April 23, 2003 - 10:43 am:

Well, after reading your response, I would not let my ds live with him. I agree with Ginny, some family counseling would be a good idea. Hang in there and when things get difficult with your ds, remember that you are doing what is best for him. He may not see that now, but hopefully he will one day.

By Krisanneq on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 08:05 am:

Marsha I am in a very similar situtation and I have come to the conclusion that your child is heading for the teenage years and teenagers almost always take the easy way out. That is what they are programmed for they are also great at throwing pity parties for themselves. Their dad sounds like a teenager himself and may not be the best role model, my stepdaughter is 15 and always wants to run to her mothers - who is lazy, uneducated and a pothead head - but fun! fun! fun- according to the 15 old when the chips are down for her like poor school performance or doing chores and being a productive member of our family. My stepdaughter came extremely rude when she cannot escape to moms the Land of no expectations. It is so hard to watch her make mistakes. Save yor sanity and know that you have to be the bigger parent and explain that to your son he will love for it in the end trust me . the teenage years are going to be very tough.

By Bellajoe on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 08:28 am:

I'm sorry but your ex sounds like a very irresponsible person. I wouldn't let my ds live with him. I agree that it sounds like your ex-mil is talking your ds into getting you to let him move there. and feeding him the "boys should live with their daddys" thing.

Letting a 8 and 6 year old into X - rated movies?? Not to menion the 11 year old! That is so wrong!

By Bobbie on Thursday, July 24, 2003 - 11:39 pm:

I think you need to tell your son that there are times in life when we have NO choice and that this is one of those times.... Your mother in law can threaten all she wants. But I believe the age of request of placement is 14 years old.. So unless she can prove you unfit she has NO grounds to stand on and your sons opinion doesn't hold a grain of salt. There is no just cause. Although........ The fact that he lives in your home and is cared for by you and if living in ex's home he will be taken care of by Ex MIL not Ex might bring up a few concerns. They will not remove a child from a parent to be raised by a grandparent because the grandparent says so... Which it sounds like she is use to everyone folding under to her wants and opinions. I personally would set my child straight and suggest counsiling to him to help him cope with his emotions. Which if.. In the long run you end up in court will work in your favor. Because the counsilor will be able to attest to the reasons behind your son wanting to move into his fathers. No bed time, no structure, no rules, Fun fun fun... But I would stand my ground on this one.... He may not like you for a while for it but in the long run he will see who his father and grandmother really are. Right now what is important to him is the easiest route to get what he wants and you aren't that route. As you shouldn't be....... It sounds like you are a good mother in a structured home with a spouse that is stepping up to the resposiblity of helping you raise your children into well adjusted productive adults...... Stand firm on this one... Just say NO!!!

And welcome to the group...