Sleep has gone crazy!
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I'm at my wit's end with this child's sleep issues. (Natalie) I'm getting less sleep than I EVER have in all of her life so far!
We went off Singulair which was causing massive insomnia. 2-3 days maybe of good sleep after that got out of her system. Since then though, over 2 solid weeks, nighttime is ridiculous. This is the schedule:
Up for the day at 6am (early for her)
Naps around noon to 1:30-ish
Bed around 8pm or so, not asleep until 9 usually
Here's the CRAPPO part - awake at 1am, 2:30am, 3:30am, 5am, 6am OR 2am, 4am,5am,5:30am...anything like that. Basically every hour and a half. If I'm getting 2 hours straight, we're doing well. I think one day this week she slept from 1 to 4:30 which felt terrific.
She never wakes before 1:30am, so from 8:30-9pm-ish to 1:30 is always straight sleep.
Prior to this she was sleeping 11-12hrs at night, often not napping during the day. When she's waking at each of these times, she doesn't cry or anything. It's like she opens her eyes, crawls out of bed, opens her door and says "mommy". I walk in, she climbs back in bed, kiss, hug, goodnight until an hour and a half later. What is this about??!! It just seems so strange to me. All she ever really says is "I don't want to go to bed". That's all we ever hear, naptime, bedtime, you name it. It's like she's programmed herself to say it everytime she wakes.
She always slept great at night before. She's often a BEAR in the morning before her nap and then fine in the afternoon after her nap. There have been a few days where DH and I are just at our wit's end in the mornings, because she's so cranky from being tired. Then she naps and she's an angel. Naps are only around an hour to an hour and a half though. Before she started this early waking, she usually didn't want a nap. Getting up at 6am and she's dying for one and drops as soon as her head hits the pillow.
ANY ideas at all? At this point I would rather have an infant to feed throughout the night. That was much easier than this.
No nap today at all, woke at 7am(miracle), same problems as usual lastnight, it's 9:45 here and she is STILL standing with her door open peeking out. We've been in 100 times, taken toys out of her bed, talked, snuggled, you name it and it's not working. Now she's just standing there and we're ignoring it.
I'm totally confused by all this!
Hugs to you both. I went through the same thing with Helen. I changed two things which seemed to work. First I dropped the nap - unless she falls asleep in the car or is just uncontrollable. Then, I changed her night time routine. These two things were miraculous. She goes to sleep beautifuly and sleeps well through the night. Another thought - does Natalie get a nighttime snack? Just before (30 - 45 min before) I put Helen to bed, she has a 4oz cup of yogurt. This seems to help her. On the few occasions when she has woken during the night nothing will get her back to sleep except a snack - a grahm cracker or the like. I found out onoly because I'd tried everything and she would not sleep so I fanally gave her a few Scooby Snacks and she went right out.
So - I hope you figure it out. I'd try no nap (or a really short one), a consistent, new nighttime routine, and a bedtime snack.
Another thought is that she's lost her ability to put herself back to sleep (as a result of the meds). Talk to the doc. A year or so ago, we had that happen with Helen and we had to do a course of antihistimine which made her really sleepy and basically got her back into a good pattern of sleep.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.
Ame
I'm sorry she is having such a hard time sleeping. {{{HUGS}}}
I agree that the first thing I would do is drop the nap. No ifs ands or buts about it, no nap period. Not a nap today and not tomorrow etc. She needs a new routine. I would see what that did and from there, make bedtime a bit later if needed. I also wonder if she is now unable to put herself back to sleep? It isn't uncommon to wake several times during the night, however, she should be able to put herself back to sleep and not get out of bed to get you. I know I am not living it, but "she opens her eyes, crawls out of bed, opens her door and says "mommy". I walk in, she climbs back in bed, kiss, hug, goodnight until an hour and a half later" is not a good routine to start. She needs to be able to just stay in bed and go back to sleep on her own. I think ignoring it is the best thing, unless of course she is sick or something. You can't make this into a "game" or you will never get her sleeping sound again.
I have thought of ignoring it, but I'm not sure how to. If I don't eventually go to her room, she comes to OUR room. How can I prevent that? It seems logical that if she doesn't get what she wants (put back in bed) she will eventually stop. Lastnight was the first night that I started changing what I did. I didn't get out of bed twice, just called to her to go back to bed NOW. She cried then, got in bed,got quiet was up again in half hour with the same deal. The second time, she cried a little (not much either time) then just sat in her room (no playing or anything like that), with the light turned on for about 45min. or so until she finally came to our room. I can keep doing that I guess....? and see what happens.
Yesterday she had NO nap and still didn't get to sleep until 10pm and the same thing overnight, up at 5am. I'm thinking "what??!?!!" It just doesn't make sense to me and it's frustrating. Yesterday she was very busy, too, not that we're not always, but we had a library class, a couple of hours at the pool, etc.
I appreciate the advice on this because we're confused about why it's happening. I'm willing to try anything at this point! The days she does have that hour or so nap she is definitely good to go, but waking at 6am means it will be hard to keep her awake AND tolerate her at the same time! I'm sure it would work itself out, but she's so tired by 11am with this new system she's made for herself.
We've ended the "going to bed game" (she comes to her door about 10x, never coming out, just peeking out). We used to try to put her back in bed, scold, etc. but now we're just ignoring it. She crawled out into the hallway lastnight and fell asleep on the floor where the dogs discovered her. DH put her in bed and she never knew it. Then the same up and down all night.
Hugs, Deanna. Sometimes you just don't know. I hope you can get it figured out. Crossing my fingers for you.
Ame
I think I would move her bed into my room, next to my bed for awhile. Then when she wakes up, you can just reach out and hold her hand for a minute so she knows you're there.
She may be more comfortable knowing that you are right there, and maybe she'll even sleep all night.
In 10 years, you'll look back at this and remember fondly how she used to wake up in the night for hugs and kisses. You may even miss it, lol 
Bre
Could she be afraid of the dark? Bad dreams?
Lara has gone through times like these when she needs me more at night. Once she sees I will always come and comfort her, she returns to more normal sleep patterns.
I hope things will improve! It's so hard to function without good sleep.
I think she is doing the normal light sleeping/waking up that we all do in the course of the night, but she has found it much more fun to include mommy! I certainly think that if you keep comforting her or move her into your room that you are creating a whole new set of problems. I had a similar issue with my youngest when we transitioned to the big boy bed with not wanting to go to sleep (vs getting up at night), but I think what I did with him will work in this case.
I have posted this on here before, but anyway here goes again:
Every time she gets up you go and put her in bed, say "Good night," and leave. Do not hug and kiss, do not get water, do not lecture, and do not explode. It's a very non-emotional putting to bed with a quick statement of good night with no term of endearment or anything. Do it EVERY single time she gets up. It make be 10-15 times the first night, but in about 3 night the habit should be broken because she will realize that it is no fun and just not worth it. My theory in situations like this is that my children must learn that I ALWAYS WIN. They can't out-tantrum, out-cry, out-smart me because I am the grown-up, it is my job to teach them, and I can last longer. With my DS I sat outside his room and literally put him back to bed 80-something times the first night, 50 something the next, in the teens the third night, and then it was a non-issue. I really think this will work with Natalie.
Also, I absolutely would not let her turn on a light because that will mess up her natural Circadian rhythms. Also, I am a firm believer than kids need naps through kdg. I think at the crux of this that she is way overtired and having a more difficult time settling down and staying asleep. Nap or no nap---whatever you decide--I do think these restless nights are taking their toll and she is probably exhausted beyond words. HTH!
Thank you everyone. Lastnight was TERRIBLE - at least a dozen times up. I'm so exhausted.
First off, the first few days this began, I did the comforting thing. There's really nothing to comfort because there's no crying or anything like that. It's just "I want to get up". Then I went to a few days of blowing up. That went nowhere. Then I decided that blowing up was not only NOT working, but it kept me from going back to sleep for that next hour before she was up again. Since then I've been doing what you described Pam, just going in, back in bed, stopped hugs and kisses, stop blowing up, no lectures. That has been going on for several days now and it's NOT working! I thought I will stop making a big deal out of it and make her see that she's not going to get anything out of this.
I honestly have no clue what else to do. She just started turning on the light the night before last. I immediately go in and shut it off. She's also now out of bed constantly during the going to bed process, and I'm just ignoring it unless the light is on. Like I said, she fell asleep right outside her door the night before last.
I would never bring her in our room because I don't agree with it, but maybe it has worked for others and that's great for them. I've spent the first few days of this comforting, but like I said, there's nothing to comfort. The few days she's gone without a nap (by her choice, not mine) the nights haven't changed a bit, so I don't think has anything to do with naps. I'm only letting her sleep an hour or so earlier in the day. I'm so frustrated and tired it's not even funny. I'm at the point where I feel like blowing again in the middle of the night because I'm so frustrated. She was up approximately every 45min. lastnight, out of bed again before I was even back in mine. It's also no fun because believe me it doesn't make me too excited to see her yet again at 6am every morning when I'm a major grouch and tired.
>"I think at the crux of this that she is way overtired and having a more difficult time settling down and staying asleep."<
I think there's definitely some truth to that, but I don't know how to change it.  Prior to this starting she had been on a major insomnia binge from the Singulair, so she was coming off of being very, very tired. But we went on vacation (8hr drive each way) right after that and she didn't sleep a wink. Yesterday she napped for an hour and fifteen minutes and woke on her own, so it's not like I'm always waking her from naps. We're doing bedtime routine earlier and spending even more time winding down before she gets in bed. Ame-I forgot to answer your question about bedtime snack. She always has a small drink and snack at bedtime.
I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and suggestions. I feel like we've done everything in the last 2-3 weeks of this and not one thing has even made an improvement. Lastnight might have been the worst ever. Started at 1am and up her longest stretch of sleep was from 5-6:15am when she got up for the day.
I could possibility let her sleep as long as she wants for nap during the day. May sound crazy, and Lord knows it scares me to death to think of getting LESS sleep, but I *have* found over her life that for her the more she sleeps, the more she sleeps, does that make sense?
Also, our room is RIGHT next door to hers, so when I say she's up before I even get back to bed, it's very fast!
Talk to the doc at this point. She could have an illness. Or her sleep cycle could just be so messed up from the allergies/med that she really has lost that natural ability to just go to sleep.
As I said, the same thing happened with Helen and we had to put her on a several week course of atarax. We tried Benadryl, but it didi nothing for her. The atarax made her sleepy enough that she was able to go to sleep and then sleep throught the night. We weaned her off it and she had no trouble sleeping - until a few weeks ago when she became totally potty trained. I think she's having anxiety about making sure she does not have an accident during the night. Either that, or she's coming down with something. But I know with Helen it will work itself out. Your situation is different and has been going on far too long.
We are fortunate that Helen is still in a crib.
Is there a way you could put up a safety gate at her door? This way, she can still see out, know you guys are there, but can't get out of her room? She might be less inclined to get out of bed then.
You may have to take the bulb out of her light fixture and just put a nightlight in the room.
Then, wether she's up or not, don't even go into her room. I know you won't sleep if she's not asleep btdt, but it may help break the pattern of needing to see you several times in the middle of the night.
Good luck.
Ame
Thanks Ame! On a side note, Natalie did the same thing when she potty trained. Woke often saying she had to go pee because she was just anxious about it, so btdt also.
I didn't even think of a gate! We rarely used ours when she was small so I completely forgot about it. She does have a nightlight in her room all the time, and removing the lamp bulb is good idea also. I definitely don't want the light on, and if she's confined in her room I can actually sleep a little because I know she's fine in there.
This is just one of those times where I'm thrown for a loop on this one and I wish there was a magical answer that would work the first time. Parenting isn't that easy though! DH and I will talk about it tonight. We have a 3yr well check soon actually, so we'll be at the ped anyway.
My ds did this just as he turned 4yo. We ended up putting up a gate, taking the light out of his fixture and there were a couple of nights where I slept on the floor of the hallway so that he could see he was not going to get out of his room or have anyone to play with during the night. It still took several weeks before things settled down but they finally did. He is still my child that doesn't sleep well but I'm realizing now that a lot of his sleep issues relate to stress, like potty training, new school year, school issues this winter, etc. I think the allergy/med issues would be enough to have screwed up her internal schedule. If the gate and lack of lightbulb don't work, I think you may be at a point when medication, as Ame did, may be the only solution. I know you aren't a huge fan of your ped, so I hope that, if it comes to that, your mommy intuition is trusted. {{{Hugs}}}
When Dylan was a little younger than Natalie he would get out of his bed at nap time and at Bed time, drove me crazy! I called the Doctor and he suggested a Baby Gate at the door. That way I could see what was going on but he had to stay in his room. I think we did that two times and Dylan hated it so much that he stayed in bed. I was even able to use it as a threat a few times when he would get out of bed "Do you want me to put the Baby Gate up, or can you be a Big Boy and stay in your bed??" Worked like a charm.
Good Luck, I hope you get some sleep tonight. Look at the bright sid: since you are only having one child you won't have to go through this again! LOL
I just want to say Kudos to you Deanna for keeping with this.
I know this the the responsible parent thing to do, but I'm a total wimp. My just turned 6 year old still sleeps with us most of the time. And it's just wrong.
We've know decided when her new princess room is completed she will be staying in her room. She says she agrees with this, we shall see.
I know I have a nightmare ahead of me and I'm taking notes from all of you wonderful ladies.
Good luck.
P.S. I have two older daughters that had the same problem as my youngest (to a lesser degree) and they are fine now. So I know it can be done.
And I know it totally my fault not the childs.
Find a copy of "The Baby Whisperer for Toddlers" - great sleep advice. Do you ever watch Super Nanny - and her "Straight to Bed" technique?
http://www.supernanny.co.uk/TV-Show.aspx
Good luck to you - My ds was a horrible sleeper for the first 14 months of life - and being a sleep deprived mommy is horrible. Pick a plan that you and your dh are comfortable and stick with it.
Good luck!!
Amy
DS Garrett 3yo
DD - adopting from China
Wishing you lots of success and good sleep. Just hang in there!
Ame
Thank you so much to everyone!
New info - She's been off of Allegra for 3 days total now, and half doses a few days before that. Lastnight she slept FINE! 2 days off the meds. We just took her off at the end of June to see how she would do, per ped instructions. She slept all night! The same night we put a safety door lock over the door handle and turned off the lamp. She didn't get up once, I didn't hear her once. I'm thinking it's the meds! If it weren't, I would think that it would take a few nights for the 'game' to wear out once she accepts that she's not getting out of there. Went right to sleep at bedtime tonight and lastnight as well. That hasn't happened for at least 3 weeks, let alone sleeping through the night.
Anyway, as a result of being off allergy meds for 3 days, she's now totally allergic again. Now I feel like we have to switch meds again. We're due for a well-child 3yr check, so I'm going to see what we can do next for the allergies. I'm very sensitive to meds, have an allergic list a mile long, and if there's 3% of the population with weird side effects, I'm always in that 3%. Maybe she's inherited my med sensitivity. Regardless we're back to square one on the allergies but we're all feeling great with an entire night of sleeping under our belts. Went right to sleep tonight as well, so we'll see. I didn't give her anything for her nose because I wanted to try and see if we got another night of sleep in. I may have to though if she wakes up gagging again.
I just want her to be unmedicated! I don't like the idea of taking meds constantly, but honestly she's been having allergies since January, so I'm wondering if it's not something in the house. I would hate for her to be on meds year 'round. I don't k now if they will do allergy testing, or what that entails?? I would like to know what she's allergic to.
Well, I am glad for the both of you that she is seems to be sleeping again... Sounds like a visit to the ped. can't come too soon.. Hopefully they will be able to figure something out...
I'm glad you're both sleeping again. I'm with you with the side effects, for me there's alot not worth taking because the side effects are worse than the affliction. Let us know what you find out.
I was going to say it might be the Allegra, but you were so happy with it, I didn't want to mention it.
I can without reservation say that we love Nasonex here. Takes care of the allergies and does not have behavioral/sleep side effects. It never gets into the bloodstream.
As far as getting it into her, Helen and I make a game of it and since I take it, too, it makes her feel more like a "big" girl.
I have her blow her nose. Then I take out the bottle and position it. Then I tell her to smell, but I never squirt the dosage the first time. I wait until I have a good handle on when she will really inhale the meds and then squirt.
So, if your doc has administration concerns, it can be done.
Oh, good luck. It's no fun.
--- have you tried Rynatan for her? That was one of the others Randy could take without behavioral effects. Helen was on/off with it. Sometimes she had no trouble and sometimes it wired her.
Then we switchen to the nasonex and have not had trouble with it.
Just another though.
So glad you got some good sleep!
Ame
Thank you for the Nasonex info Ame! I haven't heard of Rynatan but will keep it in mind if needed. The ped wants to try her on Claritin, so we'll see how that goes. If it also has bad side effects, then I'm going to ask about trying Nasonex for her. Turns out she als has a light ear infection and sinus infection (who knew?). We'll start the Claritin tomorrow morning and go from there.
Poor Natalie! No wonder she wasn't able to sleep. I hope she's feeling better, soon.
How's everyone doing?? Are we wide eyed and bushy tailed these days... I really hope you guys are counting sheep these days and not the hours of missed sleep
Thanks for asking! We did close off her room with a safety door handle cover and turned off the light at the lamp. She fell asleep against her door the first 2 nights (no crying, just playing until she fell asleep), since then she hasn't gotten out of her bed when GOING to sleep.
She's been sick, so she's been up a time or two for that, but the times up have drastically gone down and when she does, she's totally sleepy. I think it's still a habit right now, 2x or so a night, to just get tucked back in. When she was on the Allegra, every time she was up she was bright-eyed and ready to go. Now it's sleepiness. I don't feel like I can ignore TOO mcuh though at the moment since she's had sinus/ear infections.
On the whole, everything is much better. We're 4 days on the Claritin with no major side effects at this point, but it's hard to tell if it's working with the infections. She did stop running like a faucet, so that's a good sign. We're keeping our fingers crossed on all counts.
Other than that, EVERYTHING is a power struggle these days...eating, sleeping, obeying, listening, sigh......
I hope she's feeling better soon.She is a very strong willed little girl..who does she take after lol.Honestly its just a phase and she'll want to be friends again.
Deanna, sorry to hear that Natalie is sick!
I hope you have better luck with the claritin. If she continues to have problems, I would highly recommend getting a refferal to an allergist. We finally did this with my ds. I should have done it a long time ago. We went last month, and he was finally allergy/skin tested. Unfortunately, he was highly allergic to dogs, among other things, so we had to find a new home for our puppy. Probably, one of the hardest things we've had to do in a long time! The allergist changed all of his allergy/asthma medication, and changed his asthma action plan. He is doing soooo much better. We have not had a flare up since. And, as an added bonus he has not had a single episode with his reflux, which is a big thing.
I hope things coninue to improve for her. I am glad you are finally getting a little more sleep too!
I was wondering about an allergist Debbie, but honestly it's not the meds aren't working for the allergies, it's just the side effects! Every medicine has helped really well so far, Zyrtec not as much, but still helped, except that all but one has kept her up all night. She never had any trouble at night until the med changes about 4-5 weeks ago. We've been on Claritin for 5 days I think. The first 3 days, fine at night. The night before and lastnight it has continually gotten worse again. She wakes often and is just not sleepy at all. It is SO frustrating I can't even tell you.
I have no idea what she's allergic to. I think she may have *some* indoor allergies, as she was allergic a time or two in Jan. and Feb. (winter cold here), but really kicked things into high gear once Spring came. It's just a matter of finding a med that won't keep her awake all night. (Or combine that with major behavioral changes with the Singulair we tried.) I have to stick it out though so I can tell the doctor that yes, we're seeing increasing lack of sleep with the Claritin as well.
I have to schedule her 3 yr well child next week and we'll see what happens from there. In the meantime, I HATE the idea that she's tried so many meds in the last month + and even more that she may need allergy meds all year round. Zyrtec, didn't work but put her to sleep. Singulair, major insomnia and behavior changes, worked great for the allergies. Allegra, great for allergies, constantly awake at night. Now Claritin, which APPEARS so far to be starting the sleepless nights all over again.
I'm sorry you had to get rid of your dog. Unless Natalie was just terrible with asthma, I don't think we would ever do that, but what a hard thing to have to do. She doesn't seem to have allergies in my parents' house (she goes there quite often and they have 3 cats and 3 dogs) or my in-laws who have 1 dog. We have 2 dogs here. In Jan. and Feb., she had one allergic episode each month, nearly 30 days apart to the date. If she were allergic to pet hair, I would think she would have been constantly experiencing allergies?
Can you try the Nasonex for her.It doesn't go into the blood and you wouldn't have the behavioral/insomnia side effects(((HUGS))) I've never dealt with this...the lack of sleep yes
Deanna,
I feel that our allergiest had more knowledge about other medications for ds. He was always just on the standard ones...allegra, claritin, zrtec. She switched him to Extendryl junior tabs, which I have never heard of. Unfortunately, ds has mainly outdoor allergies, so we can't eliminate most things. But, we are now aware that he has to take allergy meds all year. If you know what Natalie is allergic to, you might be able to eliminate things, and therefore, eliminate the meds. Or, they may have alternative solutions to meds.
Giving up our puppy was really hard. But, ds's allergies trigger his asthma and reflux. We ended up in the ER with a MAJOR asthma attack. We only had Cody for a few months, and we were lucky, that a great opportunity came for a new home. He is with a wonderful family with one of his brothers. It was very hard, and emotional for all of us. But, I just couldn't chance things with ds. Actually, Cody was what triggered him getting allergy tested.
Hugs, Deanna!
Helen's been doing the same thing now, and she's not on any meds but the Zantac she's been on since she was two weeks old. It is so frustrating! There is no rhyme or reason to when she'll sleep like an angel or have trouble sleeping.
I thought it was related to potty training with us but now she's totally trained (day and night) so she really has not anxiety about that anymore.
Just wanted you to know that you are not alone!
Hugs, again.
Ame
I would definately be getting some allergy testing done. It might be something simple that you can take care of and then she wouldn't need medication at all, or at least, maybe not daily. It seems she is going to be sensitive to them, so I would be looking at what is causing the problem and go from there.
And to be honest, if she were my child, I would take her off everything, get her sleep back in order and then ask for the Nasonex that doesn't get into her blood stream to cause any side effects. To me, I would rather deal with the runny nose etc of her allergies than the sleepless nights until you get them figured out. The current sleep situation is not good for either of you.
Vicki - DH and I have talked about that quite a bit, but when she's allergic, it's BAD. It's not just a runny nose. She's miserable, can't see from the watery eyes, itches them and her nose constantly, and the snot is outrageous. Benadryl helps a little, but has to be dosed down so she's not sleeping all day. Then it just partially helps with the runniness. Then I have to medicate her to sleep okay at night because of all the drainage. She gets a terrible wet cough when she's allergic that sounds like she's dying. I would love to take her off of everything, but I'm not sure what would happen to her over a week's time. We were off of everything for 3 days and wham here we go again. She also slept well the 3 days she was totally unmedicated.
My question about Nasonex though - isn't that a steroid medication? She can't really be on Nasonex forever, or year round without some nasal side effects can she? I used Nasonex once for an infection and it gave me the worst headaches.
I would love to know what she's allergic to. I'd love to know what *I'm* allergic to honestly, but I can deal with mine with meds so it's not an issue. I think if we know it can definitely make a difference, so I'm going to ask for a referral at our dr. visit.
Update: Took her off the Claritin because I could not handle anymore sleepless nights. After 5 weeks of getting very little night sleeping something had to change. We went off the Claritin, had 2 more near-sleepless nights, fine ever since. Isn't that crazy?!! Allegra, Singulair, Claritin apparently have "stop sleeping" signs written all over them for my child.
Even more amazing, she has not shown signs of allergies since she went off over a week ago. That REALLY amazes me and makes me so happy! Makes me think she's not allergic to something in the house like I originally wondered. We have a dr. appt. on the 30th and I'm going to request allergy testing then, for the test and for someone who knows better what to prescribe when she does need meds again. It can't hurt and can only help. I know she was allergic in the house this winter, but now doesn't seem to be at all so far.
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