Pam, I just rememberd the *other* diagnosis my nephew has - it's oppositional defiance disorder. Is that anything you're familiar with, and is it consistent with Asperger's or anything else??

I'm really pretty clueless about most of this stuff.

My sister and nephew *might* be coming home for Christmas and they will be staying with me. I haven't seen my nephew in over 2 years. The last time he was here, they stayed with me and it was a very hard week.

I'd love to get some insights as to how to relate to him.

By Cat on Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 09:51 pm:

Karen, Robin's never been officially dx'd ODD, but it's been mentioned several times. In fact, one pdoc about a year and a half ago tried to tell me Robin wasn't ADHD, he was just ODD and we should put him on Prozac. We switched pdocs. There's not really a medication for ODD, like there is for ADHD or bipolar, from what I remember on my research of it (1-2 years ago). It's more of a therapy and behavior modification thing. Remind me what his other dx's are??? Robin's not near as defiant now that his bipolar is stable. He still has his moments, but what kids doesn't "test the water" every now and then. Also, from what I remember, ODD is very common with ADHD. How old is your nephew? (I'm sure I know, I just can't remember--mommy brain!) ODD can develop into Conduct Disorder, which can be very serious. It's something that really needs to be nipped in the bud before it comes to that. I hope and pray your sister and nephew find some solutions to the problems he's having. Especially if they come visit you! I know how hard it was when we'd visit family or family would visit us when Robin was unstable. My SIL left bruises on Robin's arms when he was 4 trying to show me how to "control" him. I was furious. Thankfully they only stayed for four days. We haven't visited her since (or her us). She scares me. Anyway, that's what I remember. There's a wealth of info online (which I'm sure you know). Good luck to your sis and her boy. It's great you're trying to support her with this situation.

By Mommmie on Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 11:59 pm:

The best best site for ODD is www.conductdisorders.com . They have a Forum/message board that's great. Very knowledgeable and experienced parents. Lots of support and no one who will look down their nose and say, "MY child would never do that!" They've heard it all.

Also, a good book to read is The Explosive Child.

It seems like that many kids who start out with an ADHD dx end up with an ODD or bi-polar dx.

ODD kids can be so frustrating. You say the sky is blue and they want to argue about it.

By Pamt on Tuesday, September 7, 2004 - 10:56 pm:

Karen I really don't know much about ODD, but from the limited experience I have had with it I think of it more as a wastebasket diagnosis. Dr's say "yeah the kid has ODD and I'll write a script for "X" psychotropic drugs" instead of truly addressing the problem. If a child is routinely defiant then there is *something* going on. Even if it is entirely chemical in nature (and sometimes I think drugs may be warranted) there are still practical ways to learn to deal with anger and defiance issues. I think counseling would be much more effective. But..then again, I'm no expert, esp. on this subject, and I tend to take a lot of the popular alphabet soup diagnoses with a grain of salt. I prefer for children to be described in terms or strengths and weaknesses, not OCD, ODD, ADHD, PDD, NVLD, etc. Those terms tell me nothing about the child and what he can and can't do. Yikes...off my soapbox now.

P.S. And no, I personally have never heard of a connection between asperger's and ODD.

By Karen~moderator on Wednesday, September 8, 2004 - 09:15 pm:

Thanks all!

Cat, he has been diagnosed with clinical depression, ADHD, ODD, non-verbal learning disorder. My sister's X was totally opposed to Eric being on meds for many years. The child has been to more therapists and counselors and had more IEP's, changed schools, etc. than I can remember. He's 13 now.

He's been *different* since he was a toddler. Just over a year ago he went on Prozac. It's helped him some, but not enough.

He doesn't have a sense of humor, doesn't *get* jokes, is often *rude* - which brings to mind one of the things Pamt stated about saying exactly what's on their mind without thought to another person. For instance, I gave him a gift for his birthday one year and he immediately said *I don't like that, I have it already*. Sent him a check the next time, he said *what good is a check, it's not a toy*.

He's very impatient, throws tantrums, constantly wants/needs attention, is very immature for his age. At 13, most boys are beginning to notice girls, and certainly enjoy hanging out with the guys, doing guy things. Eric still plays with toys that are appropriate for a 7 or 8 y/o child.

He's not all *bad* though. He's smart, though he has learning difficulties. He can be very sweet and affectionate sometimes. But it takes nothing for him to *snap*.

It's sad to me that he has no peers or friends. He really drives people away.

My sister does things with him and he's involved in a lot of activities - he's taken music lessons, tap lessons, horseback riding lessons, he played little league - she really tries to keep him busy and occupied. But outside of all that, he's pretty much alone, never really bonds to anyone.

By Feonad on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 07:22 am:

Sounds like she is doing great with him. Too bad there isn't social groups for him to belong to. You know people who are alittle more like him.


This is where my husband made friends. Maybe if he is good at math he with bond with people at the computer club or math team. Or rocket club. (at hobby stores) (My husband says this is really fun)

I met some nice friends in swim team in high school. Don't ask me why. I guess swimming is for loners and we appreciated each other.

He might not have met people who appreciate his strengths yet.

He is getting quite old now. But there are parents with kid in the exact situation. And they have more tolerance for the same behavior or similiar behavior. So if she could some how find them... Or ask him to ask a friend over once a week or every other week. Give him a big reward if he does it. Help him pick someone similar to him. Someone who might like to watch a video or play some computer game and eat some great snacks. Keep it short.

I might even ask the social worker at the school to help me figure it out.

Actually dr joy brown gave this advice to someone whos child did not want any friend. She said if the child picked a friend (gave her a month) She wouldn't pick a friend for her. She said she needed practice being a friend.

By Karen~moderator on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 10:51 am:

Feona, he's in a new school now which my sister said has *more kids like him* in it. I hope he will do well there and make some friends!!!

By Cat on Friday, September 17, 2004 - 07:16 pm:

Karen, Robin has more friends now in a class of 7 than he did in a class of 28 last year. They all have little quirks and are a bit different than your "normal" child. I hope this new school works out well for your nephew.

By Karen~moderator on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 11:56 am:

Cat, my sister just told me something very disturbing. They live in an apartment complex and Eric was friendly with a 14 y/o boy who I'll call *D* who lived there. My sister said that yesterday when she came home, her son ran up to her car, opened the door and with a smile on his face, told here *D* was dead. My sister thought he was joking, but he took her to the bulletin board where, sure enough, there was a flyer or something that said *D* died accidentally while working on a project. My sister's upset, first, that the child is dead anyway, and she is wondering what kind of accident could happen with video taping, etc., and 2nd, because her son was smiling when he told her.

I told her he probably hasn't really grasped the concept of the child actually being gone, that it's not *real* for him yet. She's really disturbed that her son isn't upset over this child's death. But even with older kids, it's hard to believe it's *real* when you hear someone you know, particularly another child, is dead. Am I off base here, in thinking that it just doesn't seem real to him??

By Cat on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 12:32 pm:

Karen, I can totally understand your sister being upset over this. I probably would be too. I do think you're right, though. Eric probably doesn't have a total concept of death and the finality of it. Most "normal" children by 13 should have a pretty good grasp of it, but honestly Eric does sound like he's got some problems that may make the concept a bit eluding. I also think this is something that she should bring to the attention of his therapist. It will need to be addressed. From what you've posted, mho is that there's more going on than just ADHD, ODD and depression. Asperger's doesn't seem to fit either, but then again several doctor's and therapist have mentioned it for Robin and it doesn't seem to fit him either (except the social problems). Could Eric have possibly had a confontation with this boy? I wouldn't want to say he was happy this boy died, but these kids minds work differently than ours and that may have been his initial thought. Remember, I'm not a professional by any means, and these are just my uneducated ramblings based on things I've learned from experience or other people's experiences. I'll keep your sister in my prayers. I know she's probably having a terrible time dealing with all this. Hugs

By Karen~moderator on Saturday, September 18, 2004 - 03:16 pm:

I don't think there were any problems with the other child, but then, what do I know? LOL She just told me that Eric, *D* and another child skateboarded together since they all lived in the same apartment complex. I know the other boy wasn't a REALLY close friend of his, but as far as my sister knew, there were no problems between them.

I really believe he just doesn't comprehend that the boy is DEAD and will never be there again. My sister is very upset, both because the boy died and she is wondering HOW, and also that Eric ISN'T upset about it.

:-(

By Feona on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 06:40 am:

The speech teacher told me that special kids don't always have access to the full range of feeling other kids have.

Seems like my son was always always happy. Now I see more feelings. Maybe he was smiling because he was happy he could tell her something she didn't know.

I don't know. They weren't close. Maybe the smile just upset her. Some people laugh when
they are nervous. Maybe he smiles when he is nervous.

You learn how you should act when something happens. Some people have to be directly taught how to act in most situations.

You know you don't always feel the feelings, but you will say the words and make the horrified face. Also there is a saying "act as if". (Means if you act a certain way the feelings follow). I mean you really have to take the time to access your feeling. If he has social problems that would explain it to me. Another social thing to teach.

I don't know if that is it. Just guessing...

I think she should talk to his social worker so she can understand it. Sounds like it is upsetting her. I would be upset too. How terrible. You could help thinking about her own son dying if he is of similiar age.