My soon to be 6 y/o grandson has recently started to have a lot of difficulty sleeping. If my dil puts him to bed at what she considers to be an appropriate hour, he will lie awake for an hour or two and complain that he just cannot go to sleep. Then at least three or four times a week, he awakens during the night and goes into the living room to lie on the couch. Sometimes my ds and dil hear him when he gets up, but other times they just find him on the couch when they get up. About half the time they find him awake on the couch, and the rest of the time they have difficulty getting him awake so that he can dress for school. His behavioral problems seem to be worsening recently coinciding to the time when he started having the sleep difficulties. He is exhibiting more hyperactivity now and is more impulsive and moody. Have any of you noticed a similar coorelation between the quality of your child's sleep and his behavior?

By Marcia on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 - 11:37 pm:

I noticed that we a little one I had in my daycare. If he didn't nap properly, he would cry, bite and hit the other kids. If he did nap, he was much better.
What does she think is a decent time? I had a friend who put his child to bed around 10, and the child wouldn't be able to settle well. When I had him, I put him to bed by 8. He would fall asleep quickly, and sleep well all night.
Does he have any idea why he can't sleep properly? I would definitely think the 2 could be related.

By Bubbels~admin on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 08:33 am:

I too definitely think the two are related, but I'm not sure which came first, "the chicken or the egg." In other words, it's hard to know whether his behavior is from his sleep problems or his sleep problems are caused by whatever is also causing his behavior problem.

My ADHD 11 y/o DS, in spite of the Adderall, still passes out at sundown and sleeps all night. My 9 y/o DD has always been a night owl. I'm liberal with her sleep time. She has to go in her room and be quiet, but other than that I don't try to force her to lie in bed in a dark room when she's not sleepy (which I myself can't do, makes me very irritable.) I'll encourage her to read and to do other things in an effort to get sleepy, and I find lots of physical activity during the day will help accomplish that, but other than that I let her fall asleep on her own, which is sometimes pretty late, yet she never has a problem getting up in the morning, functioning in school (good grades) or with her behavior.

So I'd say sleep is definitely a personal thing based on each child.

Is your grandson on any medication?

By Conni on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 10:08 am:

My oldest who has a hard time some nights, knows the rule is, too stay in his room after 8:30pm. (unless going to the bathroom obviously or getting a drink) Some nights he is really tired and goes right to sleep. Other nights he reads, listens to his radio or whatever until he falls asleep. Otherwise, he was coming into my room ALL night long some nights just to wake me up and let me know he 'couldnt sleep'. grrrrrr So we just made the rule that he needs to stay in his room and choose something to do that will take his mind off 'going to sleep'. Once he relaxes, he gets sleepy, and out he goes. IF he ever had a REALLY bad night where he was up almost all night, I didnt send him to school the next day.

My other 2 boys are pretty good to go to sleep when their heads hit their pillows. However, my 3.5 yr old OFTEN climbs in bed with us in the middle of the night. I hope that stops before he gets much bigger because we only have a Queen sz bed.

By Conni on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 10:12 am:

In answer to your question about sleep and behavior being related: Yes I did see a relation between the two. Thats why if my ds got NO sleep I didnt bother sending him to school. As I knew he would just have a bad day and accomplish nothing. I remember explaining this to his teacher and she thanked me for realizing it and not sending him! LOL

By Gammiejoan on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 06:26 pm:

My daughter-in-law would like to have him asleep no later than 9:30, but he seems unable to go to sleep at that time. He doesn't have to get up until almost 7:00, but she occasionally finds him awake on the couch when she gets up in the morning. He has never been put to bed as early as most parents put their young children to bed, but he just recently started this getting up during the night and moving to the couch. He is not on any medication although I can imagine that his teacher wishes he were. LOL!

By Cat on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 06:43 pm:

I see a connection. I mean really, how can the body function optimally if it's not getting the sleep it needs? Robin takes clonidine to help him get to sleep at night. With it he falls asleep between 1-1 1/2 hours of taking it. Without it he's usually up until about midnight. Lately (last month or so) he's been ending up on the couch between 2am-5am almost every night. I don't know if he's having bad dreams or just waking up. Like I said in another post, we're checking meds this weekend.

Joan, do your ds and dil avoid any foods for their ds? If not, they might want to start with the obvious culprits like red dye, dairy and preservitives. We kept a food journal for a couple weeks with Robin and foods didn't effect him at all. I still try to avoid red dye if I can. Does you gs drink caffinated soda? Caffine has the opposite effect on Robin than it does most kids. It actually calms him some. We saw that big time at a bbq about 5 years ago. There was a case of Surge that the kids all got into. Every one of them EXCEPT Robin was climbing fences, on top of the swing set, basically bouncing off the walls (or back yard, as it was). Robin was just as calm and well behaved as could be. It was really wild. I guess I should be giving him coffee for breakfast, huh? lol

By Ginny~moderator on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 07:19 pm:

Seems to me the "behavior problem" is that your gs has a sleep problem. If he were my child I would definitely be talking to the doctor about the sleep problems, not just the problems the lack of sleep causes. It is just not right for a 6 year old to wake in the middle of the night and wind up on the couch. I think this needs immediate medical discussion.

By Gammiejoan on Thursday, February 5, 2004 - 10:21 pm:

Cat, my ds and dil have never kept a food journal on my grandson. He has always been such a picky eater, and his food choices are extremely limited. He has never drunk caffeine, and it is totally his choice. For some reason, he has always refused it even though his parents would allow him to have it in moderation. He has been to birthday parties where caffeinated drinks were served and he asked for water or drank nothing at all.

Ginny, my grandson will be having a physical next month and his mom will definitely speak with the pediatrician at that time regarding his sleep difficulties. I will try to encourage her not to wait until then if there is no improvement over the course of the next few days. Justin was having behavioral problems even before he started having these recent sleep difficulties, however.

By Lauram on Friday, February 6, 2004 - 11:36 am:

Caffeine also "Calms" my son in some ways (the ADHD stuff) but makes his tics MUCH worse. A dr actually had me give him caffeine before school when he was 4. It would have been great if he didn't have tics. THat's why he can't take a stimulant med for his ADHD. Otherwise, stimulants work great for ADHD because it does have the opposite effect.

Sleep is a major problem for my son- especially when the symptoms are bad. IT's definitely a chicken or the egg thing though....