my question is tho i agree with protesting and getting ur point view opinion across .... is it worth gettin arrested for ... being taken to jail is one of my worst fears anyways ... but duz it really do any good to be arrested and have a criminal record about protesting ?

By Jewlz on Tuesday, April 8, 2003 - 04:52 pm:

bump

By Ginnyk on Tuesday, April 8, 2003 - 07:38 pm:

Jewlz, I am probably the only protestor on the board (certainly the only admitted protestor on the board), and having waited all day to see if there are reponses and seeing none, I will respond.

First, most large protests are organized. By large, I mean over 50 or so people. And most organized protests have a fairly firm rule that anyone who is going to commit "civil disobedience", that is, put themselves in a position where arrest is possible or likely, go through some training. Part of the training is in how to do peaceful civil disobedience, to not fight with the police but rather go limp, and just be arrested. And part of it is a lengthy session, with lawyers, to make sure people understand just what they are risking when they risk arrest. Not just the arrest, being held in a jail for several hours or a day or two, the hearing and possible fines or a sentence to serve some time, but the consequences to the individual of an arrest record and/or a sentence. So in most instances the people who are arrested are not going into this ignorant of the consequences. They are aware of them and have chosen to take the risk and accept the consequences. (Which, imo, is only proper. If you break the law, even if you don't agree with the law, you should be prepared to take the consequences of breaking the law.)

And in most instances, unless the person commits an act of violence or property destruction (which almost certainly means they did not participate in the training), they are arrested for a misdemeanor or citation offense, which is a very different thing when it comes to a "criminal" record than a charge of assault or property destruction. For example, the 100+ people arrested by federal marshalls in Philadelphia for civil disobedience (blocking the doors of the federal building and refusing to move when told to move) were given a citation for obstruction, which is not much different from a traffic or jaywalking citation, and have the option of paying a fine, or having a hearing and if found guilty being ordered to pay a larger fine or spend a couple of days in jail, maybe. But, it is not a "criminal record" kind of thing.

That said, I share your concern to some extent. In the protests in which I have participated, most of the people committing civil disobedience are adults, people already established in jobs or careers. But some of them were young people - college students. I have expressed a concern to my group that they may not be fully aware of how this might affect their future options for scholarships, student loans, or acceptance into a graduate program or another college. Certainly if any of them intend to become lawyers they will have to list it on their application for their license to practice law as an event in which they were charged with breaking a law (I went through this with my middle, lawyer, son, who had to fess up to the licensing board about some things that happened at his high school graduation celebration in Atlantic City - which I had not heard about before).

For most adults, for most jobs, the question is "do you have a criminal record", and if the charge is a citation, the answer is legitimately "no". A citation for an act of civil disobedience doesn't usually come up on searches done for criminal records (unless the person is later arrested for an actual criminal act, unrelated to protesting, in which case it all comes up). And, for most adults, if they are asked "have you ever been arrested", the answer is yes and the explanation is "political protest and civil disobedience". Adults who choose to commit civil disobedience are pretty much aware of this ahead of time and either have employers who won't fire them over this (such as my boss, I think) or careers where such an arrest is not important. For example, almost every minister I know over the age of 40 was arrested in desegregation activities or anti Viet Nam war activities, and it certainly doesn't hurt their careers. And I know many lawyers who have been arrested for civil disobedience, and it doesn't affect their licenses.

Personally, I don't intend to commit civil disobedience, and will try very, very hard not to get arrested. But it isn't easy to get arrested in Philadelphia while demonstrating/protesting, unless you commit assault or property destruction (and the demonstrations I am part of work very hard to make sure this doesn't happen - I am one of the people trained to try to prevent such things). Other cities, other police departments, often handle such things differently, but the Philadelphia police are not only not about to arrest demonstrators who follow the rules of peaceful protest, they are more than willing to work out cooperative ways in which the demonstration/protest can take place without arrests happening.

Hope this responds to your question - it's probably a lot more than you wanted to know.

By Jewlz on Wednesday, April 9, 2003 - 12:09 am:

hi ginny thank you for responding this is exactly what i was lookin for ... this has always puzzled me for years and didnt know the details behind the plannin of a demonstrations .... this was something i have wanted to do about a few things but i guess i have chickened out cuz like i said my worst fear is jail for some reason ... i may check into this now and see now that my kids are grown and hubbys job wont be jeopardazied ...i always worry about the lil things ... thank you for takin the time to answer me like this ... i read in the paper all the time in calif ..another 1300 arrested for this or that ...and wonder if they knkow what they ahve gotton their selves into... thanks

By Ginnyk on Wednesday, April 9, 2003 - 06:42 am:

Jewlz, if you are planning to be part of a protest or demonstration for any cause, I suggest that you look at who is oranizing the protest. It is best to link up with a group that has a history and is well organized, and one that is open about all of its goals and purposes. This is very important, because sometimes groups that are less than open about their ultimate goals will become part of a planning committe and can sometimes, because this sub-group is well organized and has people who will spend a lot of time working on theprotest, co-opt the protest. This has happened with some of the protests in California, where a large group of supporters of the Palestinian cause have achieved dominance in a planning commitee and the protest turns out to be anti-Israel as well as anti-war. So careful listening and investigation before you get involved is important.
And, does the planning commitee take the time to discuss exactly how the protest will take place, whether anyone will commit civil disobedience and how that will happen and whether there is training for those people?
While I consider the First Amendment and the right to protest to be one of this nation's major blessings, it is important to be sure you don't get involved with or caught up in any hidden plans or goals that you would not support if they were clear up front. That's why linking with a group with some history that you can track is important.
If you want to talk more about this, you can email me at klipvm@rcn.com.

By Tunnia on Wednesday, April 9, 2003 - 07:47 am:

Thanks for sharing that info Ginny. I'm not interested in participating in a protest, but I do like to learn new things from time to time. I would have never guessed that people "trained" for protests.

By Boxzgrl on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 09:30 pm:

I know i'm kinda late writing here but I just wanted to add my opinion. I am all for protesting because we all have "freedom of speech" but we should watch what we protest about the war. Even though there are a lot of people anti-war they should make sure that they let everyone know that they are not anti-military if theyre not. My husband is in the Marines and was very much so against this war but it really disturbed him that there were so many protestors saying bad things about the military. It is never the militarys choice whether or not they go to war, they take orders from their commander in chief (i.e. President Bush). A lot of the guys over there felt as if they meant nothing to the U.S. citizens and I think thats sad. My main point is: Instead of simply protesting "Anti-War" why not add in "Pray for Our Troops" as well. They need and deserve it.

By Ginnyk on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 11:05 pm:

Boxzgrl, I agree with your point. I personally have not seen, nor would I participate in or support a protest which was saying bad things about the military. I don't doubt that there are those protests and protestors who do, but most that I have knowledge of are protesting this war because, among other things, it is putting the members of our military at risk for causes which seem to us to be not valid reasons for risking their safety and lives. (And, the more I read in the papers every day the more I am convinced that the reasons stated for sending our troops to Iraq were simply not true.) Many of the people in the protests in which I participated carried signs saying "Support our troops - bring them home!", which is pretty much how we all felt and feel.