Are you for or against it? (edit: I doubt anyone is for a war, but would you support the President's decision to a preemptive attack?) Is it inevitable? Is there any other way?

Anyone want to share their thoughts?

By Ginnyk on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 06:46 pm:

I do not support a "preemptive" attack. That's what the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor, "a day which will live in infamy". Nor have I seen any evidence of a "smoking gun". I think Hussein is an evil man who misuses his power terribly. However, there doesn't seem to be any serious evidence connecting him with 9/11, though I would not be surprised if he supports terrorism in some way.
We do know that a large percentage (apparently a majority) of Pakistan supports anti-US terrorism, and there is strong evidence that members of the Saudi Arabia ruling family have financially supported terrorists, as well as numerous "schools" in Saudi Arabia which teach and recruit young men to become terrorists. But those nations are presently our allies, so we are making no plans to address the terrorism and terrorists that they shelter. I find this very disturbing.
Is there another way? Well, the UN Inspectors, the guys on the scene, are asking for another 5 months. Bush seems to be saying no. What is the hurry to send our young men and women to die and to kill others? Would 5 months make any real difference in the scheme of things.
Nor do I understand why we are planning to invade Iraq, a nation which, if it does have any "weapons of mass destruction" does not pose a threat to this nation. On the other hand, South Korea possesses and is developing nuclear weapons and has a real possibility of posing a direct threat to the United States, but this administration is using diplomacy there.
Personally, and this is a strong statement which will upset many, I believe that President Bush is, to some extent, using the issues of terrorism and war with Iraq to distract from our faltering domestic economic problems, the growing rate of unemployment, and the inability of government to effectively deal with what appears to be a mass of corporate fraud against stockholders, stock buyers, and corporations' employees.

Although I cheerfully describe myself as a lefty liberal, and I will be participating in anti war with Iraq demonstrations, I am not totally anti-war. There are necessary wars - WWII was such a war. I don't believe this proposed war is a necessary war.

By Bea on Thursday, January 30, 2003 - 06:47 pm:

I've been a military spouse for 35 years. My husband served in the Army for 30 years. I supported him and his comrades through wars and peace throughout most of my life. I'm totally against any preemptive attack by this country.

Why do we claim to support the United Nations, and then disregard what the consensus of that organization’s rulings? Do we only honor our commitment to the UN when they act as YES MEN for our ideas?

Who is responsible for the mess that is Iraq? Is it the people? Who will suffer from this war? Do we really think that Saddam and his minions will shed a drop of blood through all of this? We are much too righteous to assassinate a political leader, but we can kill the people he oppresses?????

We are asked to sacrifice our youth for what ideal? We are not given the facts, only rhetoric. I want to know the real reason we are hell bent to start this war.

Once we start this Jihad, do we have any idea when it will end? I am petrified that this saber rattling will be the start of something that we can’t imagine.

I’ve lived a good life, and if my time on earth is nearing it’s finish, I wouldn’t complain, but I have sons and a grand daughter that I want desperately to live and enjoy the beauty of this wonderful world. When the leadership of my country asks me to risk that future, and expects me to do so without even showing me the reason, I say NO NO NO. Show me your proof! Prove to me that this war is necessary. Give me more than your word that we need to do this.

By Barbie on Friday, January 31, 2003 - 05:11 pm:

I don't think we are starting any Jihad, I think the terrorists and any who support it are the ones who have already set things in motion when they decided to fly a plane into the Towers. I also don't think that to have a strong military defense you can not discuss all the evidence with the general public, never before in the history of any wars were decisions made by the publics opinions until the advancement of media. I agree with the President the time to act is now, after the fact could and will cost many more lives. No one wants war, but this is something that has been brewing for a long time, and waiting just gives Sadam more opportunity to destroy more lives including his own people, who are praying for intervention. I for one will trust in God and know that all things work together for good for those that love the Lord. Perfect love casteth out all fear.

By Bea on Saturday, February 1, 2003 - 12:39 am:

By Ginnyk on Saturday, February 1, 2003 - 01:19 am:

Right on, Bea. With respect, Barbie, in every war both sides have claimed God is on their side. My view of God is that God does not want his children killing each other for any reason. In fact, there is strong scriptural direction for turning the other cheek, going the extra mile, and loving those that hate you (if you are a Christian).

I thank God and the founding fathers every day for the freedom of the media to investigate and inform us (which they don't always do well, but they do so often enough), and for the freedom we have in this country to demand that our leaders tell us why they want to do things and what they intend to do, and to protest if we don't agree with them.

By Colette on Saturday, February 1, 2003 - 11:57 am:

I would always support our troops if they go to war, regardless of my belief in the war. I think we need to close our borders, find the illegals and kick them out, and concentrate on finding the sleeper terrorist cells that are already here and rooting them out.

By Barbie on Saturday, February 1, 2003 - 05:17 pm:

No offense taken by anyone here, we are all entitled to our opinions, that is one of the things that our brave men and women have fought for over the decades. You are correct there are many scriptures where God speaks to us to turn the other cheek, and there are just as many where he gave direction to go into battle and kill the enemy, man,woman and even the children. Mathew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violennce, and the violent take it by force. That scripture is talking about striving for spirit of God here on earth and when that is the case it is with violence, that is not what God wants but it is what people like Hilter and Sadam create. I think if we believe we can live in a world that is dominated by Satan in perfect peace and harmony then we are decieving ourselves. That will not happen until the one who is perfect Jesus Christ returns for his church. Another scripture that I think sums up what we are up against is Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.. As I said before I believe this is the beginning of happenings that we in ourselves can do nothing to stop, we just have to be ready to face what ever God allows to happen, all things work together for good for those who love the LOrd. Again no offense taken and I pray you take none at my reply. Pray for our President that he will be under the direction of God.

By Kaye on Monday, February 3, 2003 - 05:30 pm:

I believe the proof and the reasons that we are looking at war is that we have aerial photos of their bombs. They are storing them under schools and mosks, terrible. I believe these photos are what collin powell will present to the UN this week.

By Ginnyk on Monday, February 3, 2003 - 06:41 pm:

If we have arial photos of the bombs, why haven't we given them to the U.N. inspectors? This is not, after all, a game. Lives are at stake.

And yes, I pray every day that the President will be under the direction of God. I just hope he is listening.

By Bea on Monday, February 3, 2003 - 10:12 pm:

AMEN Ginny

By Palmbchprincess on Tuesday, February 4, 2003 - 01:57 pm:

I will not comment on my thoughts on our President's decisions, but ask again, that everyone keep My DH (John), and Amy's DH (Mike), in their thoughts and prayers. They are leaving in about 3-4 weeks for this conflict.

By Kaye on Tuesday, February 4, 2003 - 03:51 pm:

I am not sure why the photos were not given to inspectors (or they might have been). What I have heard through a miliary friend, is that they are storing these weapons under schools and churches, places they know we won't bomb. They have been moving them about as the inspectors have been looking. I believe that Collin Powell is presenting these photos and information to the UN this week. The press keeps reporting that we have evidence etc, this is what they are refer to. I have not seen these photos, what I do know is this is the information the Army is passing on to their employees. It could be false, it could be true. Either way I have mixed feelings about war.

By Palmbchprincess on Tuesday, February 4, 2003 - 06:33 pm:

Kaye, your friend is either distorting information or breaching security by sharing this information. My DH, who has Secret security clearance, (only top secret is higher) has not heard of these photos. He is deploying and if this was common knowledge info in the military he would know. Also, there are things that the soldiers know that cannot be shared at this time. Nothing that I know is exactly a "smoking gun" but I would be careful about sharing info your friend gives you, since it may be a serious breach of security on his/her part.

By Ginnyk on Tuesday, February 4, 2003 - 06:57 pm:

Palmbchprincess - I will pray for your loved ones, as I will for all the men and women in our armed forces who may be put in harm's way in the near future.

I too have relatives connected with the military and with high clearances, and all of them, no exception, think this proposed war is stupid and unnecessary. They will only say so privately and would never criticize the President or the government way, which is appropriate for those connected with the military, but they do have opinions.

By Palmbchprincess on Tuesday, February 4, 2003 - 10:02 pm:

I was watching CNN and thinking about my post and wanted to clear something up with Kaye. I was not attacking you or your friend, I'm just very familiar with the rumors that are passed around in every unit and base. I hear about 15 a day and it's hard to decipher what's true. And if this friend's info is true I would be certain that it is top secret, and not meant to be shared. I didn't want to come off as a complete B****, just trying to prevent any problems. Colin Powell IS going to the UN tomorrow with info including satellite pics, but we don't know what they are, only the highest officials do. And Ginny, we appreciate it, and I must say the situation is the same. No one I know agrees with what they are being sent to do, they simply don't voice those opinions too openly. I guess I feel there are things I don't know, so I'm not in a position to make the call.

By Kaye on Thursday, February 6, 2003 - 09:49 am:

Palmbchprincess, the person I heard this from is not very high ranking, so I would guess no security clearance, or very little, so that just never crossed my mind! And I did state that I had no idea if it was true or not, because I did suspect it was much more of a rumor than a known fact. After watching the speech with the photos, I do have to say what I heard was correct. Again not a smoking gun completely though. I mean really does the US really know what these pictures are or are we exagerrating the truth a bit? I don't know, it is frightening
to think about though. If these photos and the scenerios are true we are literally months away from some serious issues, but if they aren't and we start something up those issues start now. My dad is a ret army col, he has been through war, our family has suffered through war, I feel for the families and all involved, but then again, we want America to be a safe place to live.

By Bea on Thursday, February 6, 2003 - 11:02 am:

I think this article tells what most mothers, fathers wives, husbands, children, friends and all those who love someone in the military are feeling today....pride and fear.

The Marine

My Heart On The Line
By Frank Schaeffer
Washington Post

Before my son became a Marine, I never thought much about who was defending me. Now when I read of the war on terrorism or the coming conflict in Iraq, it cuts to my heart. When I see a picture of a member of our military who has been killed, I read his or her name very carefully. Sometimes I cry.

In 1999, when the barrel-chested Marine recruiter showed up in dress blues and bedazzled my son John, I did not stand in the way. John was
headstrong, and he seemed to understand these stern, clean men with straight backs and flawless uniforms. I did not.

I live on the Volvo-driving, higher education-worshiping North Shore of Boston. I write novels for a living. I have never served in the
military. It had been hard enough sending my two older children off to Georgetown and New York University. John's enlisting was unexpected,
so deeply unsettling.

I did not relish the prospect of answering the question "So where is John going to college?" from the parents who were itching to tell me
all about how their son or daughter was going to Harvard. At the private high school John attended, no other students were going into the military.

"But aren't the Marines terribly Southern?" asked one perplexed mother while standing next to me at the brunch following graduation. "What a
waste, he was such a good student," said another parent. One parent (a professor at a nearby and rather famous university) spoke up at a
school meeting and suggested that the school should "carefully evaluate what went wrong."

When John graduated from three months of boot camp on Parris Island, 3,000 parents and friends were on the parade deck stands. We parents and our Marines not only were of many races but also were representative of many economic classes. Many were poor. Some arrived crammed in the backs of pickups, others by bus. John told me that a lot of parents could not afford the trip.

We in the audience were white and Native American. We were Hispanic, Arab and African American and Asian. We were former Marines wearing
the scars of battle, or at least baseball caps emblazoned with battles' names.

We were Southern whites from Nashville and skinheads from New Jersey, black kids from Cleveland wearing ghetto rags and white ex-cons with ham-hock forearms defaced by jailhouse tattoos.

We would not have been mistaken for the educated and well-heeled parents gathered on the lawns of John's private school a half-year before.

After graduation one new Marine told John, "Before I was a Marine, if I had ever seen you on my block I would've probably killed you just because you were standing there."
This was a serious statement from one of John's good friends, an African American ex-gang member from Detroit who, as John said, "would die for me now, just like I'd die for him."

My son has connected me to my country in a way that I was too selfish and insular to experience before. I feel closer to the waitress at our
local diner than to some of my oldest friends. She has two sons in the Corps. They are facing the same dangers as my boy. When the guy who
fixes my car asks me how John is doing, I know he means it. His younger brother is in the Navy.

Why were I and the other parents at my son's private school so surprised by his choice? During World War II, the sons and daughters of the most
powerful and educated families did their bit. If the immorality of the Vietnam War was the only reason those lucky enough to go to college dodged the draft, why did we not encourage our children to volunteer for military service once that war was done?

Have we wealthy and educated Americans all become pacifists? Is the world a safe place? Or have we just gotten used to having somebody else defend us? What is the future of our democracy when the sons and daughters of the janitors at our elite universities are far more likely to be put in harm's way than are any of the students whose dorms their parents clean?

I feel shame because it took my son's joining the Marine Corps to make me take notice of who is defending me. I feel hope because perhaps my son is part of a future "greatest generation." As the storm clouds of war gather, at least I know that I can look the men and women in uniform in the eye. My son is one of them. He is the best I have to offer. He is my heart.

PRAYING FOR PEACE

By Barbie on Thursday, February 6, 2003 - 07:56 pm:

Amen Bea

By Feona on Friday, February 7, 2003 - 07:07 am:

Well if there is a war you can say good bye to me. I think New Yorkers and Washington folk are going to be bombed. Well I hope not, but I guess I am starting to get worried.

By Barbie on Friday, February 7, 2003 - 04:52 pm:

Feona, I'm so sorry that your worried, but I can only imagine what it must be like living in the cities that have already expereinced terrorist attacks. I pray God will give you peace of mind, and know that if you serve him, he is in control of your destiny, he'll never leave you or forsake you. God Bless

By Palmbchprincess on Friday, February 7, 2003 - 05:42 pm:

Feona, I know it is hard to not be worried about them bombing us on our land after what happened on 9/11, but please have faith, the US military is doing all it can to protect all of our citizens. We are a little better prepared now, and I don't think there is reason to worry. Anything could happen, but this should prove to be a quick war in our favor. (((HUGS)))

By Annie2 on Friday, February 7, 2003 - 09:22 pm:

Feona, you do not need to worry about being bombed. Their warheads couldn't make it this far. If their planes got in the region, our radar would pick up and they would be taken out over the seas.
What we, as a nation, need to worry about is Saddam supplying the terrorists cells with bio-chemicals agents. They could/would/probably will (if we don't strike now), infiltrate our homeland this way.
This is why this war is crucial. Now. We should not just be worried about Saddam in Iraq. We are worried about Saddam and his alliances with the Al-Queda.
I'm a former Marine wife, also. My DH was in Beirut and Desert Storm. Our military is strong. We need to let them help the world.

By Ginny~moderator on Sunday, August 13, 2006 - 07:13 am:

spammed, 8/13/06