Wireless internet connection question
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive February 2007:
Wireless internet connection question
I received a laptop for Christmas. I'm starting to write books.
Anyway, when I turn this laptop on it tells me there is a wireless internet connection near.
The wireless internet connection is two houses down from me, my neighbors. It even states their last name.
I've always wanted wireless but now this scares me.
Can other people get on your wireless internet connection?
It looks like all I have to do is press a button and I'd be on their connection. This is scary to me.
What's the radius on wireless and can't you place a privacy band on it? Should I tell them?
Hmmm, I don't think there is any kind of security risk is there? I know when dh travels for work, he will sometimes pull into parking lot hotels and use their internet in the car!
I've read a lot about security risks with wireless. One thing said over and over is that the person who has a wireless connection MUST use a password and firewalls. Otherwise people can indeed get into your wireless connection, use it for their own purposes, and extract information. When I get home I'll look at some stuff I saved from the net, because my attorneys use laptops all the time.
I can pick up 6 neighbors from my house, some secured and some not. It will tell you if it's secured or not.
My uncle is a writer and sometimes finds himself on the road and needing to send a story to meet a deadline and he has a device that will tell him when there is an unsecured internet connection and he'll log on and send his story.
I'm not sure what damage someone can do if they access your wireless connection. Is it any different than going into Starbucks and using their connection? You can't jump onto the guy's computer sitting at the table next to you because you are using the same wireless connection. The town next to me has a city wide Wifi and you can pick it up anywhere inside the city. I guess it can slow your connection down. Does anyone know what the potential issue is with this?
As long as with your wireless you turn off outside connections it is fine. My neighbor has it and has the security turned on as well as the school across the street from me. As long as you use the security available with the wireless you are fine.
If it's secured you need the password/passcode to access or connect to it. Unsecured, you can often connect, but with limited connectivity, but you are vulnerable.
We have wireless at home, but we have a secured network.
Some wireless connections can reach up to 500 feet or greater. Your neighbor most likely does not have their wireless network secured. Obviously, you don't want to log onto their network without their knowledge or permission. They would also notice that the speed of their connection to the internet would be greatly reduced if someone were to tap into their connection. In fact, you might want to warn them of the dangers of not having their connection secure.
An unsecured connection is very dangerous in many ways. If a crook has access to your internet activity, they can steal sensitive information like user id's and passwords should you log onto a website to do banking or they could steal your credit card number should you do your shopping online. They can also set up an "evil twin" connection, that is, make you think that you are on the internet when you are actually sending all of your information to their computer.
Why secure a wireless network?
Step-by-step, secure your home wireless network
Secure your wireless network
We have a wireless network and my DH, who is the programmer/nerd type, says that if it is unsecured that sometimes "hackers" can figure out how to log on to the actual computer but more likely they would just use your connection to do something illegal and you could get in trouble for it. If you get wireless make sure you get one that is secure and use the password protection. They are not hard to set up and I love it. I can have the girls computer in the livingroom and not have to have a network cable running to it.
If DH ever gets a wireless network set up for us, I'm sure it will be a protected one, with a password.
I was very afraid to have a wireless router in my house when Shawn bought his laptop. However, he set it up according to the instructions, and did protect it with a password.
I do a fair amount of internet shopping, and was afraid of my information being stolen.
I checked with our IT guy, who keeps up on this because a lot of our attorneys have laptops and use wireless when away from the office. He says if you have a firewall and use a password, you are pretty much safe - especially if you change your password every 3 or 6 months.
Ditto, the secure line. As long as you have a secured line, you are fine. Your neighbors may have a secured connection. You can't tell from just the message that there is a wireless connection nearby. You would only be able to tell by trying to connect to it. If it is secure, it will ask for a password.
If you use their line, it's no big deal. I've used neighbor lines when mine was down so I could chat with Scott. I wouldn't do online banking, but checking emails and stuff is fine. It takes a very very smart hacker to figure out your personal info.
It's weird, can't they tell that you are using their unsecured wireless internet?
I'm so slow and naive.
You know, they are the ones paying for the internet service, and if one were to use their connection without their knowledge or consent, that seems to me to be wrong, like stealing.
Lisa, I know what you are saying, but I guess that, once something goes out on the airwaves, like radio or TV transmission, it becomes public domain.
Coffee shops like Starbucks, have WiFi as a courtesy to their customers.
I think I understand what you are saying, but there is a difference. A radio or TV transmission is paid for by sponsorships with the intention of making it available for free to the public. In coffee shops, hotels, airports, businesses, or parks where there are public WiFi connections, the person or people (possible sponsors as well) who pay for that service do so with the intention of offering it for free to the public.
However, Marg's neighbor is paying for his own internet connection and I highly doubt that he has any intention of offering internet service up for free to his other neighbors, nor should he be expected to, and it would be immoral and unfair to take advantage of the available connection without their knowledge or consent. It would amount to freeloading.
Stealing utilities such as cable and phone connections are against the law too.
If the person is worried about someone using their wireless, then they should password protect it. It is as very simple process and all wireless routers come with instructions on how to do it and strongly suggest that you do it.
And, it's not like electricity where you pay for usage. If the neighbor does not have the intention of offering free wireless service, then the neighbor should protect his/her connection.
Ame
I agree, Ame, but only to a certain extent. Just because someone doesn't protect their connection doesn't make it okay to use it without their knowledge or consent.
Some people are simply not knowedgeable enough to know that it is something they should do, nor might they know how to do it.
Funny, we just has a thread about eating fruit at the gorcery store, which is stealing. 
I must be the only one who thinks this is a big deal.
Ame, if I don't lock my door, does that give someone else the right to come in and make him/herself at home. If I leave my keys in my car, is it OK for someone to take it and drive it? Of course not. Yes, one should take protective measures. But just because I don't take protective measures doesn't give someone else the right to make free with something that is mine.
And Lisa is right. The "airwaves" used for television and radio and ham radio are owned by the public in general and regulated by the government, with certain bands set aside for certain uses. And, as a matter of fact, a commercial TV or radio station pays a substantial annual fee for the use of specific wavelengths, and if another broadcaster trespasses on those wavelengths, the trespasser (using the wavelengths someone else has licensed) can be severely penalized. WiFi or wireless service is paid for by someone. If Starbucks wants to offer free WiFi to its customers, Starbucks is still paying for it, and uses it to lure you in to use their WiFi and drink (and pay for) their coffee.
I agree with Lisa - using someone else's wireless internet service is like hooking up to someone else's utilities or cable, or using tech gadgets to steal and use someone else's cell phone service. It's stealing and it's wrong. Unlike the cable, utility or cell phone service, your use of someone else's wireless service doesn't cost them any more because it isn't metered or counted, but if they are on the internet and you link to their wireless, you can slow down their internet usage while you are trespassing.
Lisa, if this is about Helen and her tomato again, I did offer, more than once to pay for it. I even brought another tomato to the counter so the grocer could weigh it and know what to charge me. Insisting any more than I did would have been rude and ungracious.
No, leaving your doors unlocked and the keys in your car does not give anyone the right to use your property. That is tresspassing and worse.
However, you have to know that if you do not protect yourself you are leaving yourself open to theft. You are actally inviting it.
If I leave my child's tricycle in the park while my child is on the swing and another child uses it, is that stealing or tresspassing? No. If I didn't want someone else to use it, I should not have left it unattended.
It's the same with a wireless connection. You don't have to have any special knowledge to password protect a wi-fi. The instructions are in the set up procedure. If you ignore those instructions, you open yourself up to someone else using your connection.
I would personally never use anyone else's wi-fi, especially an unsecure network. My own is passkey protected. You need to get a pass code from me in order to use it.
Do I see it as stealing? Legally, I don't think it is. Morally is another matter entirely.
Ame
I think one of the key differences is, if someone is using my cell phone, my cable and ordering movies etc, it would cost me money. However using my wireless connection doesn't cost me anything, doesn't interfere with my use, so no I don't think it is stealing. But a couple of things I guess play into it. If you are using it, instead of paying for your own, then that is cheating the cable company. But since I pay for internet, if my wireless card picks up someone else signal, then it isn't a big deal in my world. The key factor is, I am paying my share and I am not taking away from anyone. On cable the amount of people using it does slow it down, but it doesn't make a difference if I am on my own or not. It is all about the number of users online, not which connection they are hooked up to. So I did more harm to my neighbor by letting a friend piggy back my internet while they were visiting.
So here is another stealing question...
We got a new TV. We have cable. We plugged it in, said auto program and let it go. So while we are flipping channels we notice our tv picks up channel 82.003 and 82.005. Ok weird but whatever. Well after a week, we have figured out that those channels are the "on demand" channels, we think. It looks like if someone around us (not sure of the radius), orders a movie to watch then it shows up on our tv. Now part of why you pay for ondemand, is you are able to record the movies, you can watch them for 24 hours, you can pause them and rewind them. We don't have any of those options, it just happens to play movies. So are we stealing? Again, I do pay for cable, it doesn't slow anyone else down, so I think no. I also think eventually it will get scrambled. The loop also must be very big, because there are always movies playing. The only reason we think it is "on demand" is we have seen the scroll through page once. So far there hasn't been anything on that we didn't actually own on dvd either. Of course last night someone started "surfing" the adult selections, we changed channels. It did make me wonder who around me is watching..LOL
In my family, one of the big rules is "If it's not yours, leave it alone - unless it's on fire."
If it were me, Kaye, I'd check with the cable company, because somehow you have cross-connections, and there is always the chance that it will come back and bite you in the butt sometime. Especially if someone is linking into your cable to get the on-demand movies. Is there no chance you might be charged for them?
No I can't be charged for them. What I think happens is this, if you choose to watch a movie on demand, the cable company sends it over a hidden channel. For some reason my tv picked those channels up. There must of been movies playing on them when we set the tv. We have no selection option, what is on is on. The only thing we can do is not turn to that channel. We could reprogram our tv, but again it will pick up whatever channels are playing, which could be more stations or less I suppose. I spoke with a techie friend this morning, he said the cable company is actually aware this is happening. They used to filter channels, and then they went to the sub system, but now there are tv's that have that capability and they have will have to change their technology. But right now there are only a few tv's capable and the people who have them spend plenty with the cable company they just aren't worried about it. We don't quite fit into that catagory (although we do have basic cable), but our tv was a gift, which breaks the sterotype a little.
Ame, regarding that produce thread, I didn't mean anything directed towards you personally. What I was referring to was that the general consensus of that whole thread was that eating a piece of fruit or vegetable in the store without even the intention of paying for it -- is wrong.
I understand what you are saying about leaving yourself open for theft. But it still doesn't change the fact that the thief is the bad guy, not the person who failed to protect himself against the thief. And if I take my son's tricycle to the park and leave it unattended, I would not be surprised if another kid got on it and started riding it. But that doesn't change the fact that it is wrong-- the kid or the kid's parents should have come to me or my son and asked to use it.
I had a conversation with my son last year about cheating. He was having trouble keeping up with his assignments in class. He had asked the girl next to him to help him. Her "help" was giving him answers to questions on an assignment. I told him that it was wrong of him to accept that type of help. 1) it meant that he was not learning the material himself and 2) the girl was doing the work for the both of them, which isn't fair to her. She is only responsible for doing her own work and my son is responsible for doing his. (I alerted the teacher and she said that she would talk to the girl about this, that she probably didn't know it was wrong to help him in that way.)
The same applies to using someone else's wireless internet connection without their knowledge or consent. It isn't fair to the person paying for the connection to supply the connection to anyone who happens to find it without having given his/her consent.
In the case of your cable, you told the cable company, the cable company knows about it, and they aren't doing anything about it. I don't know what more you are required to do, other than remind yourselves and your kids that someone else is paying for these movies and that you are not entitled to free movies on someone else's dime.
Ginny, could you find out if there are any laws against "borrowing" a wireless internet connection from a private individual without their knowledge or consent? Morally, it is wrong, but what about legally?
That was the point that I was making. Do I think that it is right to use another person's WiFi? Absoloutely not. However, just like not locking your doors, or your car, IF you don't protect yourself, someone will take advantage. I would never enter someone else's home without their permission or invitation, nor drive someone else's car. I won't even take a piece of candy out of the candy dish of a co-worker unless I ask. However, as has been stated, it is very easy to password protect your signal, and the directions strongly urge you to do so. If you do not lock your "WiFi door", you can expect that someone will use it. It isn't right, and I wouldn't, any more than I would eat something in a grocery store without paying for it.
It is amazing, though, how many people DON'T protect their signal. Sometimes, you inadvertandly tap in. We were going through town one day, and Shawn was using his laptop in the car. We drove past an auto dealership, and all of a sudden, he had an internet connection. That's all I was saying.
I also meant to add that once the signal goes out, you have no control over who uses it (you won't even know), so it is up to you to protect yourself.
Bottom line: Yes, the neighbor should protect his WiFi connection. No, he should not be surprised to find that his connection has been tapped in to without his knowledge or consent since he didn't bother to secure it.
But just because the signal is there and is unprotected and available to his neighbor doesn't make it okay to take advantage of it without his knowledge or consent.
I am going to bow out now, since this topic almost belongs on the Kitchen Table!
Regarding cable television, when we first moved to Sheboygan, we didn't get hooked up to cable right away. We were busy getting settled and learning the town, so it wasn't a priority. We got tired of the crappy over-the-air signal eventually and Gary wondered what would happen if we actually hooked up the cable! Voila, we had cable tv. We hadn't ordered it. Apparently, it had never been shut off, when the previous tenants left.
I will admit, we didn't call the cable company right away, but we did within a few weeks, since we knew we couldn't keep getting the free cable forever! When the installer came, he told us that someone hadn't been doing their job and they had already been fired. I'm sure eventually, they would have figured out that we had cable and they weren't being compensated for it! We didn't want to wait for that to happen!
I know you didn't mean anything personally, Lisa . I was just joking.
And I think we've done a fine job of "discussing" this without having to get out coffee mugs and go to the Kitchen Table.
Ame
Oh - and I just wondered, legally, if an unprotected wireless connection could be an attractive nuisance? After all, computers with wi-fi are programmed to seek out wireless signals. If it finds an unprotected one, it's going to ask you to connect.
A house will not give off a signal that says it's unlocked. A car will not beep it's horn and say take me I'm unlocked. A wireless connection that is unprotected advertises itself - just like an unattended toy in the park. I think theowner has a prime responsibility to protect the connection.
Ame
A man was arrested in St. Petersburg, Fl last year, for "unauthorized access to a computer network, a third-degree felony." Florida case
And here's a discussion on ZDNet: ZDNet
In general, I would suspect that (a) the federal laws about hacking - which is what it is when you do this - might (just might) cover it, but the likelihood of prosecution is slim to none in 99.99% of the instances it occurs. See the ZDNet article.
To go back to the first poster, if you want to be neighborly, I suggest you alert your neighbor to their risk and suggest they get a firewall up on their system and start using a password.
Stay tuned- my local news is going to do an investigative report on wireless internet tapping. Should be interesting!
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6018752
The above link has been disabled, but the story is right here.
It is a very in depth look at wireless internet security and how many wireless networks are actually unprotected. All one has to do is drive around town to find hundreds of open networks.
http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6025528
|
Members
